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Using The Law For The Enforcement Of Rights

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  • Legalbear
    Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not bound to give way to a
    Message 1 of 7 , May 14, 2011
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      Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not bound to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a monarch. The citizen here knows no person, however near to those in power, or however powerful himself, to whom he need yield the rights which the law secures to him when it is well administered. When he, in one of the courts of competent jurisdiction, has established his right to property, 209#####209 there is no reason why deference to any person, natural or artificial, not even the United States, should prevent him from using the means which the law gives him for the protection and enforcement of that right. United States v. Lee, 106 U.S. 196, 208-9 (1882).

       

    • dave
      Translation 1: Under IT S system, the government calls people subjects but considers them sovereign in regards to rights not bound to give way to a sentiment
      Message 2 of 7 , May 16, 2011
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        Translation 1:

        Under IT’S system, the government calls people subjects but considers them sovereign in regards to rights not “bound to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a monarch.” In other words you are a subject…..and sovereign ONLY in that you are not bound to a King or his men. The citizen’s needs to yield NO right to any person IF that right is secured by law when it is well administered.

         

         

         

        Translation 2:

        Upon the territory owned by and ceded to the United States of America for which this court administers the law of that territory, you are a SUBJECT of that proprietary-territory holder of power. Your rights are what that proprietary holder [aka the United States of America] says you are to have. That holder recognizes your sovereignty only in regards to no King or the King’s men will be over you. If you are a citizen of that territory, this court is stating you don’t have to yield one of those rights granted to any one person as long as it is secured under the law for the territory when it is well administered. You have the means of the law of the territory for enforcement and protection of any right the proprietary holder grants you.

         

        Translation 3:

        You ain’t in Kansas anymore Dorothy….you are in the State of Kansas.”

         

         

         

         

         

         

        From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Legalbear
        Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 8:24 PM
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Using The Law For The Enforcement Of Rights

         

         

        Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not bound to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a monarch. The citizen here knows no person, however near to those in power, or however powerful himself, to whom he need yield the rights which the law secures to him when it is well administered. When he, in one of the courts of competent jurisdiction, has established his right to property, 209#####209 there is no reason why deference to any person, natural or artificial, not even the United States, should prevent him from using the means which the law gives him for the protection and enforcement of that right. United States v. Lee, 106 U.S. 196, 208-9 (1882).

      • Legalbear
        If you read that 1882 case you will see that the government was up to their old tricks. The owner of the land tried to pay the taxes and the GOVERNMENT
        Message 3 of 7 , May 17, 2011
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          If you read that 1882 case you will see that the government was up to their old tricks. The owner of the land tried to pay the taxes and the GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS refused to take payment on a technicality and then tried to take the land and use it for a GOVERNMENT FORT AND CEMETARY!  They thought they got to do this WAY BACK THEN because they were the GOVERNMENT. My take is that the issue is not Kansas v. State of Kansas, but whether we yield the rights the law secures to us. Lee could have left well enough alone and the GOVERNMENT would have gotten away with what they did WAY BACK IN 1882. Are we supposed to take “Translation 3” to mean we have no rights and that because they switched it to “State of Kansas” rights that come from the Creator have been abrogated? I think not. To my way of thinking, if rights come from the Creator, they can change things around without our permission as much as they want, our rights remain the same. If they put judges in place that insulate all officials from liability for their misdeeds, it is our job to protest and muster a resistance to that that resolves the problem. Part of that solution includes knowing how things are supposed to be and with authority reminding existing oppressive judges what their duty is and what our rights are. I propose we MAKE them say that we can’t have those rights because they are the “State of Kansas”. Part of what stands in our way is not knowing about quotes like the one I posted here and understanding them to point that we can belligerently claim the right in the face of governmental resistance even if that resistance takes the form of a judge.

           

          I am encouraged by this from Psalm 108:11, “Mighty Creator, go forth with me. 12 Give me help against the adversary, for vain is the help of man. 13 Through and with the Mighty Creator I do valiantly, for He it is Who  treads down my adversaries.”

           

          And from Psalm 109:26,Help me, Jahuwah my Mighty Creator; deliver, liberate, and give the victory to me  according to Your mercy and loving-kindness!-- 27That they may know that this is Your hand, that You, Jahuwah, have appointed, ordained, and instituted it. 28 Treat them with contempt; as a trifling or as insignificant, but cause me to prosper. When my adversaries arise, let them be disgraced, a reproach, shamed, confused, and dishonored.[1] But since I serve You I rejoice and am of a cheerful countenance. 29 Let my adversaries be clothed with shame and dishonor, and let them cover themselves with their own disgrace and confusion as with a robe.”

           

          And from Isaiah 40:27, “I thank you Father that my way of life, course of life, and mode of living are not hidden from You. I thank you my rights are valid and preserved by You.”

           

          I am unwilling to admit that the Creator is not capable of helping me get all of my rights, based upon what Dave has written. I contend that the Creator will give me creative ideas that will effectively get me all of my rights. The only roadblock between me and those ideas is words of unbelief springing from undisciplined thoughts not in conformity to Jahuwah’s Word.

           

          Translation 3:

          You ain't in Kansas anymore Dorothy….you are in the State of Kansas."

           

          Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not bound to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a monarch. The citizen here knows no person, however near to those in power, or however powerful himself, to whom he need yield the rights which the law secures to him when it is well administered. When he, in one of the courts of competent jurisdiction, has established his right to property, 209#####209 there is no reason why deference to any person, natural or artificial, not even the United States, should prevent him from using the means which the law gives him for the protection and enforcement of that right. United States v. Lee, 106 U.S. 196, 208-9 (1882).

          Call me at: 720-675-7230

          On Skype: legalbear

          Best times to call: 8:30 am to 9:00 pm MST

          Join my Yahoo Group Tips & Tricks for Court by sending an email to:

          tips_and_tricks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

          My blog: legalbearsblog.com

          Tax sites: IRSTerminator.com IRSLienThumper.com IRSLevyThumper.com

          (formatted like this so this email doesn't end up in your spam folder)

           



          [1] Just like it says in Isaiah 65.

        • Frog Farmer
          ... I m not sure they switched Kansas to State of Kansas . Maybe some people switched, but I think it s more that all of us were offered an alternative
          Message 4 of 7 , May 17, 2011
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            > Are we supposed to take
            > "Translation 3" to mean we have no rights and that because they
            > switched it to "State of Kansas" rights that come from the Creator
            > have been abrogated? I think not. To my way of thinking, if rights
            > come from the Creator, they can change things around without our
            > permission as much as they want, our rights remain the same.

            I'm not sure "they switched" Kansas to "State of Kansas". Maybe some
            people switched, but I think it's more that all of us were offered an
            alternative choice that was mostly chosen, and those who didn't choose
            it became a minority. If the constitutions offer one way, and another
            way is chosen, does that mean the constitutions are of no effect, or
            does it mean that for those who want to waive their rights, clever men
            will devise attractive ways that can be voluntarily chosen? Mass
            ignorance plays a big part in the result where words are the basis of
            government.

            > If they
            > put judges in place that insulate all officials from liability for
            > their misdeeds, it is our job to protest and muster a resistance to
            > that that resolves the problem. Part of that solution includes knowing
            > how things are supposed to be and with authority reminding existing
            > oppressive judges what their duty is and what our rights are.

            That is called "controlling one's court". Most are unaware of the
            concept, and then some who know are afraid to do it. Those who tell
            judges what to do know about Writs of Mandamus and Writs of Prohibition.

            > I
            > propose we MAKE them say that we can't have those rights because they
            > are the "State of Kansas".

            They won't because their job is probably to fill both roles. For
            example, who does my Sherriff work for? Most likely for both the dejure
            and the defacto, except that here we know he has failed to take the
            dejure oath of office. Maybe where you are it is different.

            > Part of what stands in our way is not
            > knowing about quotes like the one I posted here and understanding them
            > to point that we can belligerently claim the right in the face of
            > governmental resistance even if that resistance takes the form of a
            > judge.

            You got that right! Who do we blame for the lack of education regarding
            the law in our schools? After school, do we blame each individual for
            his or her own lack of curiosity regarding such things, or do we excuse
            everyone because that is the nature of today's dumbed down society? I
            tend to expect everyone to be a moron or imbecile until proven
            otherwise. I used to be the opposite way, expecting people older than
            me to know more than me. It was too costly.

            Regarding court citations (and being able to recite statutes and
            constitutional articles, etc.), it is a lot of fun to see if that's all
            you can utter in court. Every time you are asked a question, reply with
            an on point citation! It will drive your opponents nuts! One time,
            when a judge asked me some stupid question as to why I thought they
            couldn't be doing me that day, I replied with the Miranda quote: "Where
            rights secured by the constitution are involved, there can be no
            legislation or rule-making that would abrogate them" - or words to that
            effect. It shut down everything for another two weeks!

            > I am encouraged by this from Psalm 108:11, "Mighty Creator, go forth
            > with me. 12 Give me help against the adversary, for vain is the help
            > of man. 13 Through and with the Mighty Creator I do valiantly, for He
            > it is Who treads down my adversaries."

            And it is exhilarating to see that all you need are will power and faith
            in the assistance of the One Who Enables You To Be Here. Lots of
            surprises await!

            > And from Psalm 109:26, "Help me, Jahuwah my Mighty Creator; deliver,
            > liberate, and give the victory to me according to Your mercy and
            > loving-kindness!-- 27That they may know that this is Your hand, that
            > You, Jahuwah, have appointed, ordained, and instituted it. 28 Treat
            > them with contempt; as a trifling or as insignificant, but cause me to
            > prosper.

            Mock them in the IMOC! Disqualify all men who dare to speak with
            authority when it is clear that they have NONE!

            > When my adversaries arise, let them be disgraced, a reproach,
            > shamed, confused, and dishonored.

            Now you're cooking!

            >[1] But since I serve You I rejoice
            > and am of a cheerful countenance. 29 Let my adversaries be clothed
            > with shame and dishonor, and let them cover themselves with their own
            > disgrace and confusion as with a robe."

            Still, have mercy on their heathen souls!

            > I am unwilling to admit that the Creator is not capable of helping me
            > get all of my rights, based upon what Dave has written. I contend that
            > the Creator will give me creative ideas that will effectively get me
            > all of my rights.

            Hey, when half of Detroit's adults cannot read, it's not too hard to
            confound these paycheck anticipators.

            > Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the
            > sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not
            > bound to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a
            > monarch.

            But they do often for one reason or another.

            > The citizen here knows no person, however near to those in
            > power, or however powerful himself, to whom he need yield the rights
            > which the law secures to him when it is well administered. When he, in
            > one of the courts of competent jurisdiction, has established his right
            > to property, there is no reason why deference to any
            > person, natural or artificial, not even the United States, should
            > prevent him from using the means which the law gives him for the
            > protection and enforcement of that right. United States v. Lee, 106
            > U.S. 196, 208-9 (1882).

            Do you know what does "prevent him from using the means which the law
            gives him for the protection and enforcement of that right"? HE DOES!!
            SHE DOES!! Something lacking in mind or heart does! Maybe all that
            does it is the prospect of a pizza getting home cold when waiving a few
            rights would assure it arrives warm.

            Regards,

            FF
          • dave
            Re States and an illusion of the mind: Balsaman isn t far off. The tipoff came to me when I discovered that the State of Ohio constitution-the officially
            Message 5 of 7 , May 17, 2011
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              Re States and an illusion of the mind:

               

              Balsaman isn’t far off. The tipoff came to me when I discovered that the State of Ohio constitution—the officially recognized 1851 version forward—mentions no borders. [The early one’s do.] And no borders are described in Ohio Revised Code.

               

              Hmmm….how could that happen? Now of course the State of Ohio gives weight to previous Constitutions but still was puzzling as other state constitutions mentioned some borders.

               

              One day it dawned on me. Supposing the state governments were not the “the only game in town” they wanted you to believe? If a right of political association is guaranteed, then that means there could be many many many governments eh? Ahhh….no one would want THAT known would they?

               

              Thus you come to the idea that the states are largely political ideas. And sure enough they use the term “elective franchise” thus indicating freedom in political association called franchise that is elective. Now thinking….no one could newly politically associate if they could not DIS-associate first eh? So that meant one doesn’t have to belong to the state—one could just be.

               

               If a border is mentioned, it does NOT mean that everything “corralled” inside belongs the State of XYZ—that is what they WANT you to believe. Ahhh….that was how ALL the trickery occurred that would reign in everything gained in the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776 . It was the equivalent of a land grab only the grab occurred AFTER they sold it as you’ll learn later. [We used to call this “Indian Giving” but of course that is an insult to the natives for largely the government made the accusation to deflect from its own policy.]

               

              So if a state is defined as a territory, a law and a population and the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776  is written law, then how could ANYTHING be “made law for” UNLESS it was a proprietary territory?

               

              So thus when you look within the borders of say Ohio you find:

              ·         [Official name] STATE OF OHIO. This has a WRITTEN law and a territory upon which that law applies and IS an inseparable part of the confederacy, the United States of America for which the Constitution of September 17, 1787 is the supreme law of the land. It HAS to be, it’s a PROPREITARY territory. [Largely the population doesn’t live on the territory but DOES claim allegiance by elective franchise/citizenship…so this state does have a population.]

              ·         Some outright OWNED/CEDED territory belonging directly to the United States of America, the confederacy which ALSO has a written law. [Doubt the population lives there but yep, there is US CITIZEN allegiance thus effectuating a population.]

              ·         Rest of Ohio. This is what is left when the United States of America sold what it previously owned within the borders. It had a law formerly known as the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787 but that law was by the proprietary territory owner the United States of America, the confederacy. What happens when the territory is sold unconditionally? Answer: What law existed just immediately after the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776 ? Answer: The english common law, an UNWRIITEN law. So thus does THIS state have a population? Indeed it does. And a law? Indeed it does, the unwritten English common law. And does it have territory? Indeed it does, the territory of what the people own individually.

               

              This is why experts on law and government such as Ed Rivera [www.edrivera.com] can “dice up” the territory into written law and unwritten law territory. Written law territory being territory owned by and ceded to the United States of America.

               



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            • dave
              Here is the SHORT answer: You can declare your independence ANY time you want. You can cite the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776 as law for your
              Message 6 of 7 , May 18, 2011
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                Here is the SHORT answer: You can declare your independence ANY time you want. You can cite the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776  as law for your reliance. However, expect a fight IF you are upon the proprietary territory of another and expect a far lesser fight IF you can show that your adversary has no claim upon your territory—the latter today will take education as your adversary has been taught that his authority is everywhere.

                 

                The dilemma you discuss from Translation 3 is exactly the dilemma faced in the 3rd law, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787.

                 

                As usual no one discussed the fundamental logical concepts back then either for the SAME reason as to keep people in bondage—so I will do so now. Let’s go back to around 1776 and you’ll see…..

                 

                Here you have a people declared independent of government in the 1st law, the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776 . Focus later on the fact it’s now law, and not history and the difference is law can be relied-upon to keep some party “in check”.  In essence the document provides that individual consent is an element of just government and the only law mentioned is an unwritten law of nature and nature’s God. [One can show in history all of this points to the English common law—an unwritten law].

                 

                Now here is the important concept in 1776 which I come back to later: Declaring independence and achieving same are not the same. Having a right to independence with all the unalienable rights and achieving same in a society bent on your usurpation are not the same. Imagine how difficult all this becomes IF you are on the territory claimed to be owned by another where a proprietary-power to make law for territory is a well-understood concept? In 1776, the proprietary owner was the King of England.  Just post 1776 it took a war. Fortunately NOW we have one important difference: Now the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776  is LAW and it’s the first WRITTEN law. That wasn’t the case in 1776, so things were a lot harder.

                 

                Now let’s fast forward to the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787. Now the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776  is written law. On the other hand you have the well understood concept of proprietary power over territory of ownership. Ownership of territory begets an opportunity to make law for that territory. And of course the Northwest Territory was awarded in the collective sense to the confederacy, the United States of America, of the 2nd organic law, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, in the Treaty of Paris.  But the 2nd law ALSO acknowledges the first law in that the free inhabitants are entitled to all the privileges and immunities of the FREE citizens of the states. [In other words all the privileges and immunities but none of the obligations--AGAIN it reiterates in essence what the 1st law mentioned.]

                 

                It’s just a few years post 1776. The Treaty of Paris just occurred. The King just gave up rights to territory and awarded same territory to the confederacy called the United States of America. Given the choice of: (1) NOT making written law for the territory and (2) Selling the territory off (3) Giving it away without charge……what would you EXPECT any government to do? Especially one that had all the war debt?

                 

                Answer: They used the PROPREITARY POWER understood to those who have OWNERSHIP of property to make LAW for the territory. [That was the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787—written under authority of the confederacy, the United States of America ] Thus, they made the inhabitants of the district liable for the war debt via taxation [Hint: Taxation today traceable…so are the districts…etc.] [Later they sold off the territory hence loosing what proprietary power they had….what they didn’t bother telling people was their proprietary-power vanished didn’t it?] Of course they understood all this when they drafted the ordinance for some smart people in the lot would “pick-up-on” the concepts of the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776  and say “Hey, you can’t make law for us if we fought too!” and so they offered in the document all the appearances of state-hood—in actually two methods for states—which they took full advantage-of in the con just a short time later.

                 

                In my 3rd translation I wanted to point out that when upon territory owned by another for which a proprietary power holder exercises his power and writes law for same, it’s very hard to declare independence. That would be the State of Kansas. The proprietary power holder is the United States of America. Chances are very good though that within Kansas Dorothy didn’t reside in the State of Kansas—however IF Dorothy visited a local State of Kansas government judge, he would be the wizard who would exercise a proprietary power and convince her NOT to peel back the curtain of knowledge.

                > "Translation 3" to mean we have no rights and that because they
                > switched it to "State of Kansas" rights that come from the
                Creator
                > have been abrogated? I think not. To my way of thinking, if rights
                > come from the Creator, they can change things around without our
                > permission as much as they want, our rights remain the same.

                I'm not sure "they switched" Kansas to "State of Kansas".
              • Legalbear
                I read Thomas s last statement from beginning to end. I agree with it. I ve experienced that second set of books firsthand exactly the way he describes it. We
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 26, 2011
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                  I read Thomas's last statement from beginning to end. I agree with it. I've experienced that second set of books firsthand exactly the way he describes it. We can only turn this thing around when we are armed with knowledge of what our rights are and how to enforce them, even against judges. That is what this quote is about. I just went through a felony prosecution where I had to teach the judge. By the end of trial he had learned a lot and was treating me considerably different than when we started. I think my judge would like a second chance. Part of the secret to my success was knowing in advance what my rights were and going in with a strategy to get them in the court. In Colorado, attorneys, mostly who worked in the prosecutor's office, go on the bench with no training how to be a judge whatsoever! We have to come up with effective strategies on how to let the judge know we will not tolerate judges who take sides. Bear

                   

                   

                  The problem is there is no law in a court room - only on the paper.

                  Here is the proof : http://thomasjamesball.com/

                  --- On Sun, 6/26/11, Barry <bear@...> wrote:


                  From: Barry <bear@...>
                  Subject: [People B4 Lawyers] Using The Law For The Enforcement Of Rights
                  To: PeopleBeforeLawyers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, June 26, 2011, 12:07 PM

                   

                  Under our system the people, who are there called subjects, are the
                  sovereign. Their rights, whether collective or individual, are not bound
                  to give way to a sentiment of loyalty to the person of a monarch. The
                  citizen here knows no person, however near to those in power, or
                  however powerful himself, to whom he need yield the rights which the
                  law secures to him when it is well administered. When he, in one of the
                  courts of competent jurisdiction, has established his right to property,
                  209#####209 there is no reason why deference to any person, natural or
                  artificial, not even the United States, should prevent him from using
                  the means which the law gives him for the protection and enforcement of
                  that right. United States v. Lee, 106 U.S. 196, 208-9 (1882).

                  Call me at: 720-675-7230

                  On Skype: legalbear

                  Best times to call: 8:30 am to 9:00 pm MST

                  Join my Yahoo Group Tips & Tricks for Court by sending an email to:

                  tips_and_tricks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                   

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