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Re: Additions to Tax?

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  • Michael
    ... This is true but only for a taxpayer. Are you one, would be my question, under the circumstances. ... The best one is to not volunteer in the first
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 7 3:42 PM
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      --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, BOB GREGORY <rhgusn@...> wrote:

      > *Henry is right. The deck is stacked,

      This is true but only for a "taxpayer." Are you one,
      would be my question, under the circumstances.



      > The best tactic...

      The best one is to not "volunteer" in the first place.
      Take this as step one, and no other steps apply.



      > It does no good to file as Hendrickson suggests,
      > not because it is not right under the law but...

      If it is not right under the law, why be so willing
      to break the law would be my question. Step one,
      it seems to me, is in keeping with the law.




      > If I ever HAVE to go to prison because I'm right
      > and the IRS is wrong,

      If you do end up in prison, I am guessing it would
      be because you broke the law, and the IRS was "right."
      Life is full of ironies.



      > so be it, but if I ain't volunteering.

      Then you would not be a "taxpayer!" Oh, you meant
      a different kind of volunteering, as in "giving in."



      > If twenty or thirty million people would simply
      > REFUSE to file tax returns, standing together and
      > taking their chances, I would be right there with
      > them.

      I do not know the numbers, but I have "read" that
      there may already be that many who have chosen not
      to file, but the decision was independent and not
      based on waiting for en mass approval.

      I am guessing you are not "right there with them."
      I never asked anyone's permission to not be
      a taxpayer. Also, I never viewed it as "taking
      a chance." To me, it was reading the law.

      We all make choices...
    • Jake
          I may have an opinion...let s see...     The Tax Court is an administrative tribunal, not a court of law.  When you file in the TC you not only put
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 7 5:27 PM
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           > I may have an opinion...let's see...

           >> The Tax Court is an administrative tribunal, not a court of law.  When you file in the TC you not only put yourself under IRS jurisdiction, you're admitting that you owe something, but disagree with the IRS over how much and the burden of proof is on you.

           > What about a special appearance just to challenge jurisdiction?  


        How can you challenge the jurisdiction of the tribunal YOU voluntarily filed in?  You give the TC jurisdiction over both you and the subject matter when you file there.


        < snip >


        ~ ~ ~


      • BOB GREGORY
        *Actually, according to the IRS s own estimates there are around 63 million non-filers. I meant twenty or thirty million MORE. The base of over 60 million
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 8 12:48 AM
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          Actually, according to the IRS's own estimates there are around 63 million non-filers.  I meant twenty or thirty million MORE.  The base of over 60 million are bottom-of-the-barrel folks who don't earn much and thus don't owe much tax (even according to the IRS).  A lot of them bounce from job to job and/or get paid under the table.  The reason there are so many is that the IRS figures that it would cost more to go after them than they could get out of them.  But 20 or 30 million MORE would include a pretty large chunk of people who pay a lot of the taxes.  That would get their attention, but there are not enough assets to send all the letters, file all the notices of liens, initiate all the notices of intent to levy and notices of levy, execute the levies, etc.  And, generally, only around 300 or so cases per year are actually prosecuted in court, because of the limitations of DOJ personnel and court dockets. 

          If people were to take such mass action and also change their W4's to minimum withholding, it would keep a huge amount of money from going into the hands of the IRS.  
          Of course, if people in the top 5% income level were to stop, the IRS would have apoplexy, since they pay over 53% of all income taxes.  They would probably design a plan to selectively go after those people with the most vigor because it would have the biggest payoff.  But the people in the 50% to 95% level pay another 43% of all income taxes, and 20 or 30 million just stopping filing and cutting their withholding to a minimum would get everybody's attention.

          On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Frog Farmer <frogfrmr@...> wrote:
           

          BOB GREGORY wrote:

          > If twenty or thirty million people would simply REFUSE to file tax
          > returns, standing together and taking their chances, I would be right
          > there with them.

          According to IRS own estimates, it's been over 40 million and growing
          for over 30 years.


          > But the vast majority of people are talkers and not
          > doers. They want to watch Hendrickson and Larken Rose, and Joe
          > Bannister and others and "see what happens." They don't understand
          > that the answer would be mass disobedience. The government could not
          > deal with that, and things would change. But it is not likely to
          > happen because too many people are watchers.

          Hey, too many cliff jumpers are lemmings! Learn to wear a lemming-fur
          coat and walk backwards facing the same direction of the rushing crowd!

          Regards,

          FF


        • dave
          If you read the attachment of rights carefully of what comes with the standard [certified mailer] notices of deficiency you will see a trap laid for the
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 8 5:56 AM
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            If you read the attachment of rights carefully of what comes with the standard [certified mailer] notices of deficiency you will see a trap laid for the unsuspecting person. Of course this is all dealing with tax court and your “right” to an administrative hearing. The attachment is supposed to explain those rights. There is a series of questions and these are as if YOU are asking them….with responses. I can’t recall the actual words but the jist of the question is “What if I feel I don’t owe the tax?” Can’t you imagine the patriot thinking, “Yes!! That’s the one!! That’s me!! I’ll finally have my day in court to get even with the IRS’s ACS that keeps sending me these letters.”

             

            However notice carefully the answer to the question….for it only deals with the AMOUNT of the tax!  [not the liability for the tax].

             

            Sneaky eh? Folks…tax court is an administrative court for transferees of payments. I doubt you are that. You are already assumed LIABLE for the tax when you invoke the request for the hearing. There is NO salvation in the few pieces of silver due process tossed before you called a hearing….it’s just a trap.

             

             



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