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I had to deliver Peter Hendrickson at noon today to Milan FCI.

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  • Roger Hattman
    My comments are below. YES, YES, YES he is absolutely correct.  However, I have no experience with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.  One drawback
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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      My comments are below.

      YES, YES, YES he is absolutely correct.  However, I have no experience with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.  One drawback is as far as I know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at a PO Box.

      .        On mail addressed to lawyers or courts make sure you caption it
      right under the address "A Mailing address of Convenience". This SHOULD
      force the court officer to look elsewhere for a jurisdictional establishment
      within the filing but you might have to raise it. In one case where the
      judge proceeded on, I simply sent the court a package with only the words
      "mailing address of convenience" highlighted, and a picture of the post
      office where I had scribbled across the front, "they won't let me live
      here." The judge tore into the attorney in her ruling saying no residence
      was established by her to invoke court jurisdiction and that court had
      nothing to do.
      Great thinking.

      .   

      You can have multiple mailing addresses of convenience in a free society. In
      a free society only YOU can establish residence or domicile for if
      government could PLACE you someplace, you wouldn't be free would you?
      Not only can you, but you should.  Since no special action is needed on your part (for general mail), when you are away, tell people to send you mail at whatever post office is handy.  General mail is the ultimate in convenience for those on the move (In my opinion, that is really everybody, unless you are either dead or a plant.)
    • Rickity
      I m not good at passing the forum rules but I thought this to be worth a last shot. My wife and I have use General Delivery for our incoming mail for about 12
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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        I'm not good at passing the forum rules but I thought this to be worth a
        last shot. My wife and I have use General Delivery for our incoming mail
        for about 12 years now. Yes, we had to fight for it but I put the
        postmaster over a barrel and it stuck to many of the clerks' amazement. If
        the recipient needs a "physical address" then we put the "physical address"
        of the post office along with "General Delivery." It works. My wife's and
        my driver's licenses both list general delivery as the address. Nothing
        works unless you try it. Most things don't work unless you fight for it. I
        believe the car registration would have to be accepted as well. Rickity






        "When someone who is honestly mistaken discovers the truth he is no longer
        mistaken or no longer honest."


        _____


        My comments are below.

        YES, YES, YES he is absolutely correct. However, I have no experience with
        PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those. One drawback is as far as I
        know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at a PO Box.
      • Michael
        ... Yep. It was just about a decade ago, and it still brings a smile to my face.
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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          --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Jake <jake_28079@...> wrote:
          > Must have been prior to 1 October 2000 because there
          > haven't been any district directors since - the office
          > was eliminated as a result of "restructuring".

          Yep. It was just about a decade ago, and it still brings
          a smile to my face.
        • hobot
          RESIDENCE makes all the difference in the world. If you ain t found evidence in black and white yet then you just ain t trying very hard. Anywho I ve solved
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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            RESIDENCE makes all the difference in the world.
            If you ain't found evidence in black and white yet then you just ain't
            trying very hard.
            Anywho I've solved all this in all ways via W8BEN and knowing the
            definitions of
            the treaties and Acts involving banks and taxes.
            After understanding the scope and confusing variations of W8BEN forms
            and this
            to use it, there is an attachment form [banks can provide IRS version of]
            that specifically covers US mailing address as convenience only not
            permanent
            home jurisdiction. See #2 in this site for example.
            http://www.bacflorida.com/en/customer-service/w8-forms.php

            Part I. Please check the appropriate box below and provide the
            information requested:
            􀂉 The U.S. mailing address provided on my Form W-8BEN presented to BAC
            Florida Bank
            is not my permanent residence address and is used for convenience
            purposes only, such
            as a vacation home, the home of a relative or some other address where
            receipt of mail
            and similar notices is particularly convenient.
            􀂉 Other – I explain below the reason for using the U.S. mailing address
            provided on my
            Form W-8BEN presented to BAC Florida Bank, despite the fact that such
            address is not
            my permanent residence address:
            ______________________________________________________________________
            ______________________________________________________________________
            I hereby provide a copy of one or both of the documents listed below
            (see document(s)
            checked) to support further my claim of foreign status.
            􀂉 Driver's License
            􀂉 Passport
            Signature: _________________________

            Non US resident address format.
            Johnny Appleseed
            111 Main Square #222
            Town, County, mail route 44, [use last 2 digits of ZIP as dejure postal
            route]
            Statename, United States of America [spelled out fully not abbreviated].

            hobot - used a current passport with same data as in W8BEN but striking
            out US citizen and underlining
            non citizen national, no SSN, no penalty. Used photo ID from clubs and
            schools or
            other non -gov't issued ID that requires a RESIDENCE in United States,
            but not America.
          • E Junker
            Yes you can use a PO Box for an address on a Driver License and Auto Registration. They frown on it at the DMV but we remind them that if a purse is stolen
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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              Yes you can use a PO Box for an address on a Driver License and Auto Registration. They frown on it at the DMV but we remind them that if a purse is stolen with ID and keys we have handed the address and the keys to the home. There's invariably a pause before the logic registers.

              This is true in N.M., at least.
            • Roger Hattman
                Nothing works unless you try it.  Most things don t work unless you fight for it I could not agree more.  Registration to General Delivery was rather
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 5, 2010
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                 "Nothing
                works unless you try it.  Most things don't work unless you fight for it"
                 
                I could not agree more.  Registration to General Delivery was rather easy for me, but it took me 3.5 years and several court battles to get "General Delivery" as my actual address at licensing.  I had no idea it would even work in their sytsem.   So far, I have had no problems with the "physical address" issue.  I usually play dumb when asked for one.


                 

              • Frog Farmer
                ... One way to use a PO Box without calling attention to it is to use the address of the Post Office building, and use # in front of the number of the box
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 6, 2010
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                  > I have no experience
                  > with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.� One drawback is as
                  > far as I know you cannot have a Driver License�or Auto registration at
                  > a PO Box.

                  One way to use a PO Box without calling attention to it is to use the
                  address of the Post Office building, and use # in front of the number of
                  the box inside, like this:

                  Your Name
                  Post Office's Address on Main Street #123
                  City, State

                  You'll get it and nobody but you and the post office will know it isn't
                  a regular house.
                • dave
                  Yes you are correct on driver s license..but think for a moment..a PMB is not a Post Office Box. So says the genuine USPS.right in their regulations. Most
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 6, 2010
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                    Yes you are correct on driver's license..but think for a moment..a PMB is
                    not a Post Office Box. So says the genuine USPS.right in their regulations.
                    Most driver's license places simply tell you "No Post Office Boxes." [Hint:
                    Ditto other government forms.] So here is the dialogue I went thru with the
                    DMV clerk..for me the Ohio DMV is just down the street from Mailboxes Etc
                    [my PMB location]:



                    Me: [Putting down 1776 Main Street PMB 123.]

                    DMV: Sir.we don't allow post office boxes.

                    Me: I didn't give you one.

                    DMV: Our system shows that as one.

                    Me: Only the Post Office has post office boxes..so says the postal
                    regulations. In fact they are the only ones permitted to use that name.

                    DMV: Well..I'm not sure..

                    Me: Look..the form clearly says "NO POST OFFICE BOXES"..do you see a genuine
                    post office over there? I don't. I don't see the flag.I don't see the
                    trucks..I don't see a post office there..so I clearly didn't give you a Post
                    Office Box.

                    DMV: Ok..I'll use the address you gave.







                    My comments are below.

                    YES, YES, YES he is absolutely correct. However, I have no experience with
                    PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those. One drawback is as far as I
                    know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at a PO Box.
                  • dave
                    This really works. I use it all the time. You can use it for ambush tactics. Let your adversary keep filing stuff against it. At the last minute throw this
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 6, 2010
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                      This really works. I use it all the time. You can use it for "ambush"
                      tactics. Let your adversary keep filing stuff against it. At the last minute
                      throw this at the court...take a yellow highlighter to your address on your
                      adversary's filings....include a snap shot of the Post office with your
                      scribbled address of the post office along with, "Impossible to have a
                      residence/domicile here."





                      > I have no experience
                      > with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.  One drawback is as
                      > far as I know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at
                      > a PO Box.

                      One way to use a PO Box without calling attention to it is to use the
                      address of the Post Office building, and use # in front of the number of
                      the box inside, like this:

                      Your Name
                      Post Office's Address on Main Street #123
                      City, State

                      You'll get it and nobody but you and the post office will know it isn't
                      a regular house.
                    • Thomas
                      Since the United States Post Office has been GONE since the mid-1970s, I use the format: c/o [care of:] Box XXXX, U.S.P.S. [UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, a
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 7, 2010
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                        Since the United States Post Office has been GONE since the mid-1970s, I use the format:

                        c/o [care of:] Box XXXX, U.S.P.S. [UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, a corporation] My Town, My State, U.S.A.

                        I have most of my snail-mail correspondents [even the State where I live] trained to use this format.

                        I have ALSO had to make the point that, while I MAY be homeless, I certainly cannot LIVE in my 4" x 6" x 8" mail receptacle.

                        "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > > I have no experience
                        > > with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.  One drawback is as
                        > > far as I know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at
                        > > a PO Box.
                        >
                        > One way to use a PO Box without calling attention to it is to use the
                        > address of the Post Office building, and use # in front of the number of
                        > the box inside, like this:
                        >
                        > Your Name
                        > Post Office's Address on Main Street #123
                        > City, State
                        >
                        > You'll get it and nobody but you and the post office will know it isn't
                        > a regular house.
                      • Roger Hattman
                        Funny interaction. This verifies further what I have observed:  The computers will accept most any address.  The problem is usually the person, so just keep
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 8, 2010
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                          Funny interaction.
                          This verifies further what I have observed:  The computers will accept most any address.  The problem is usually the person, so just keep trying.
                          When I switched my alleged license after a fraudulent suspension to General Delivery (after years of registration at the same they still to switch my alleged license), I handed the clerk at an auto tag place (a private entity that has direct access to DMV computers) the following:  registration to General Delivery (GD), insurance (GD), an invoice from the county court for an alleged traffic infraction (General Post), and a hand signed letter from the head Licensing to a (different) general post addy (another separate story of corruption).  She looked at me with a look of panic.  
                           
                          Me:"It is not a PO Box.  I know you cannot use PO Box."
                          Clerk:  "Well, I can try it."
                           
                          Several minutes later she printed it all out.
                          Just be persistent.  Try different people.  I have to assume that these computers all work more or less the same and will accept most anything.  I should note that c/o addresses are also expressly forbidden, as well as PO Boxes. 
                           
                          In addition to being an essential element for challenging jurisdiction, having a non residential address is a big plus for privacy.
                           
                          My only concern is, how do you get a PMB without some street address or ID or something?  I love the ambush idea, though. 

                           

                        • jerry bell
                          The post office has not been gone since the mid 70 s Give this a try when you send the mail fill the front like this   c/o [care of] person name fill out the
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 8, 2010
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                            The post office has not been gone since the mid 70's Give this a try when you send the mail fill the front like this
                             
                            c/o [care of] person name
                            fill out the full address
                            Write out the full city and state name NO zip code
                             
                            Oh and by the way check this out you can send it for 2 cents per half ounce. this law has not been repealed.
                             
                            Test it with your friends and put this law inside the mail you send so if they give you any crap just tell them to follow the law and lack of knowing the law is no excuse.
                             
                             


                            --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Thomas <tthor.geo@...> wrote:

                            From: Thomas <tthor.geo@...>
                            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: I had to deliver Peter Hendrickson at noon today to Milan FCI.
                            To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 7:33 PM

                             

                            Since the United States Post Office has been GONE since the mid-1970s, I use the format:

                            c/o [care of:] Box XXXX, U.S.P.S. [UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, a corporation] My Town, My State, U.S.A.

                            I have most of my snail-mail correspondents [even the State where I live] trained to use this format.

                            I have ALSO had to make the point that, while I MAY be homeless, I certainly cannot LIVE in my 4" x 6" x 8" mail receptacle.

                            "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > I have no experience
                            > > with PO Box and PMB so I cannot comment on those.  One drawback is as
                            > > far as I know you cannot have a Driver License or Auto registration at
                            > > a PO Box.
                            >
                            > One way to use a PO Box without calling attention to it is to use the
                            > address of the Post Office building, and use # in front of the number of
                            > the box inside, like this:
                            >
                            > Your Name
                            > Post Office's Address on Main Street #123
                            > City, State
                            >
                            > You'll get it and nobody but you and the post office will know it isn't
                            > a regular house.


                          • Daniel Nieves
                            I thought Id share this with the group on Residence   MILLER BROS. CO. v. MARYLAND, 347 U.S. 340 (1954) Thus, the Court has frequently held that domicile or
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 8, 2010
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                              I thought Id share this with the group on Residence
                               

                              MILLER BROS. CO. v. MARYLAND, 347 U.S. 340 (1954)

                              Thus, the Court has frequently held that domicile or residence, more substantial than mere presence in transit or sojourn, is an adequate basis for taxation, including income, property, and death taxes. Since the Fourteenth Amendment makes one a citizen of the state wherein he resides, the fact of residence creates universally recognized reciprocal duties of protection by the state and of allegiance and support by the citizen. The latter obviously includes a duty to pay taxes, and their nature and measure is largely a political matter. Of course, the situs of property may tax it regardless of the citizenship, domicile or residence of the owner, the most obvious illustration being a tax on realty laid by the state in which the realty is located. Also, the keeping of tangible or intangible personalty within a state may give it a similar taxable situs there (sometimes called a business or commercial situs or domicile). Certain activities or transactions carried on within a state, such as the use and sale of property, may give jurisdiction to tax whomsoever engages therein, and the use of highways may subject the use to certain types of taxation. These cases overlap with those in which incorporation by a state or permission to do business there forms the basis for proportionate taxation of a company, including its franchise, capital, income and property. Recent cases in which a taxable sale does not clearly take place within the taxing state, elements of the transaction occurring in different states, have presented peculiar difficulties, as have those where the party liable for a use tax does not use the product within the taxing state. 



                              --- On Thu, 7/8/10, Roger Hattman <rogerhattman@...> wrote:

                              From: Roger Hattman <rogerhattman@...>
                              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] I had to deliver Peter Hendrickson at noon today to Milan FCI.
                              To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 4:24 AM

                               
                              Funny interaction.
                              This verifies further what I have observed:  The computers will accept most any address.  The problem is usually the person, so just keep trying.
                              When I switched my alleged license after a fraudulent suspension to General Delivery (after years of registration at the same they still to switch my alleged license), I handed the clerk at an auto tag place (a private entity that has direct access to DMV computers) the following:  registration to General Delivery (GD), insurance (GD), an invoice from the county court for an alleged traffic infraction (General Post), and a hand signed letter from the head Licensing to a (different) general post addy (another separate story of corruption).  She looked at me with a look of panic.  
                               
                              Me:"It is not a PO Box.  I know you cannot use PO Box."
                              Clerk:  "Well, I can try it."
                               
                              Several minutes later she printed it all out.
                              Just be persistent.  Try different people.  I have to assume that these computers all work more or less the same and will accept most anything.  I should note that c/o addresses are also expressly forbidden, as well as PO Boxes. 
                               
                              In addition to being an essential element for challenging jurisdiction, having a non residential address is a big plus for privacy.
                               
                              My only concern is, how do you get a PMB without some street address or ID or something?  I love the ambush idea, though. 

                               


                            • windandthestone
                              ... substantial than mere presence in transit or sojourn, is an adequate basis for ... Re Pete: I have read some of his books and postings, but did he ever
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 16, 2010
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                                --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Nieves <dannyruel@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I thought Id share this with the group on Residence
                                >  
                                > MILLER BROS. CO. v. MARYLAND, 347 U.S. 340 (1954)
                                > Thus, the Court has frequently held that domicile or residence, more substantial than mere presence in transit or sojourn, is an adequate basis for >
                                >

                                Re Pete:  I have read some of his books and postings, but did he ever tell anyone that giving your employer a W-4 was VOLUNTARY!!  If you don't give one,  aren't you saying in effect, "I am not volunteering to be a "federal person" this year."    (See 26 CFR 31.3402(p))

                                No W-4 means no SS# means no income reported, means no taxes -- but also means no Social Security maybe's and no federal workers compensation. 

                                I have spent years reading both Title 26 Code (USC) and Federal Regulations (CFR).  What a difference between the two!!  There is no taxing regulations which support the income tax on "everyman's wages."  The CFR begins with stating that Section 1 imposes a tax on everyone, but never says "there is imposed upon ..."  - yet the more I read it, the crazier it gets! 

                                Like this -->

                                "26 CFR 1-1.1
                                (a) General rule. (1) Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every individual who is a citizen or resident of the United States and .... [They talk about imposing a tax, but never do it!]

                                 (b) Citizens or residents of the United States liable to tax. In general, all citizens of the United States, wherever resident, and all resident alien individuals are liable to the income taxes imposed by the Code whether the income is received from sources within or without the United States. Pursuant to section 876, a nonresident alien individual who is a bona fide resident of a section 931 possession (as defined in §1.931–1(c)(1) of this chapter) or Puerto Rico during the entire taxable year is, except as provided in section 931 or 933 with respect to income from sources within such possessions, subject to taxation in the same manner as a resident alien individual. As to tax on nonresident alien individuals, see sections 871 and 877.

                                (c) Who is a citizen. Every person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction is a citizen. [Note: there are no commas in that sentence.]  For other rules governing the acquisition of citizenship, see chapters 1 and 2 of title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1401–1459). For rules governing loss of citizenship, see sections 349 to 357, inclusive, of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1481–1489), Schneider v. Rusk, (1964) 377 U.S. 163, and Rev. Rul. 70–506, C.B. 1970–2, 1. For rules pertaining to persons who are nationals but not citizens at birth, e.g., a person born in American Samoa, see section 308 of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1408). For special rules applicable to certain expatriates who have lost citizenship with a principal purpose of avoiding certain taxes, see section 877. A foreigner who has filed his declaration of intention of becoming a citizen but who has not yet been admitted to citizenship by a final order of a naturalization court is an alien.

                                (d) Effective/applicability date. The second sentence of paragraph (b) of this section applies to taxable years ending after April 9, 2008."

                                Okay folks, please tell my why section (d) is there????
                              • BOB GREGORY
                                *In regard to the question, **Okay folks, please tell my why section (d) is there???? **after looking at the question and CFR section again, I believe I see
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 19, 2010
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                                  In regard to the question, "Okay folks, please tell my why section (d) is there????" after looking at the question and CFR section again, I believe I see the problem.  The writer, windandthestone, highlighted the sentence beginning "In general, all citizens..." which is not really the second sentence of the paragraph but the first.  The second sentence begins "Persuant to section..."  I assume that the provision about nonresident aliens came into effect on April 9, 2008.

                                  On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:53 AM, windandthestone <mmgemmel@...> wrote:
                                   


                                  --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Nieves <dannyruel@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I thought Id share this with the group on Residence
                                  >  

                                  > MILLER BROS. CO. v. MARYLAND, 347 U.S. 340 (1954)
                                  > Thus, the Court has frequently held that domicile or residence, more substantial than mere presence in transit or sojourn, is an adequate basis for >
                                  >

                                  Re Pete:  I have read some of his books and postings, but did he ever tell anyone that giving your employer a W-4 was VOLUNTARY!!  If you don't give one,  aren't you saying in effect, "I am not volunteering to be a "federal person" this year."    (See 26 CFR 31.3402(p))

                                  No W-4 means no SS# means no income reported, means no taxes -- but also means no Social Security maybe's and no federal workers compensation. 

                                  I have spent years reading both Title 26 Code (USC) and Federal Regulations (CFR).  What a difference between the two!!  There is no taxing regulations which support the income tax on "everyman's wages."  The CFR begins with stating that Section 1 imposes a tax on everyone, but never says "there is imposed upon ..."  - yet the more I read it, the crazier it gets! 

                                  Like this -->

                                  "26 CFR 1-1.1
                                  (a) General rule. (1) Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every individual who is a citizen or resident of the United States and .... [They talk about imposing a tax, but never do it!]

                                   (b) Citizens or residents of the United States liable to tax. In general, all citizens of the United States, wherever resident, and all resident alien individuals are liable to the income taxes imposed by the Code whether the income is received from sources within or without the United States. Pursuant to section 876, a nonresident alien individual who is a bona fide resident of a section 931 possession (as defined in §1.931–1(c)(1) of this chapter) or Puerto Rico during the entire taxable year is, except as provided in section 931 or 933 with respect to income from sources within such possessions, subject to taxation in the same manner as a resident alien individual. As to tax on nonresident alien individuals, see sections 871 and 877.

                                  (c) Who is a citizen. Every person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction is a citizen. [Note: there are no commas in that sentence.]  For other rules governing the acquisition of citizenship, see chapters 1 and 2 of title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1401–1459). For rules governing loss of citizenship, see sections 349 to 357, inclusive, of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1481–1489), Schneider v. Rusk, (1964) 377 U.S. 163, and Rev. Rul. 70–506, C.B. 1970–2, 1. For rules pertaining to persons who are nationals but not citizens at birth, e.g., a person born in American Samoa, see section 308 of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1408). For special rules applicable to certain expatriates who have lost citizenship with a principal purpose of avoiding certain taxes, see section 877. A foreigner who has filed his declaration of intention of becoming a citizen but who has not yet been admitted to citizenship by a final order of a naturalization court is an alien.

                                  (d) Effective/applicability date. The second sentence of paragraph (b) of this section applies to taxable years ending after April 9, 2008."

                                  Okay folks, please tell my why section (d) is there????

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