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Swan update

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  • legalbear7
    From: Virginia Sargeant Date: Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:01pm Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan Update Hi all you have to do is keep saying no
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 23, 2003
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      From: "Virginia Sargeant" <TOVI7114@...>
      Date: Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:01pm
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan Update

      Hi all you have to do is keep saying no no no,as you have to agree
      to go to jail.Tom
    • Frog Farmer
      ... That s what I ve seen...to be convicted and incarcerated requires the cooperation of the victim (from Minute One). Hardly anyone seems willing to deny this
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 23, 2003
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        legalbear7 wrote:

        > From: "Virginia Sargeant" <TOVI7114@...> Date: Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:01pm
        > Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan Update
        >
        > Hi all you have to do is keep saying no no no,as you have to agree
        > to go to jail.Tom
        >

        That's what I've seen...to be convicted and incarcerated
        requires the cooperation of the victim (from Minute One).
        Hardly anyone seems willing to deny this to their usurping
        neighbors, probably in an effort to be polite and make
        friends. When I go to court, I never cooperate, and
        consider them all liars or dupes and not worthy or capable
        of being friends. Works for me!
      • keystone law
        I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my first. I kept telling them I refused to participate in their fraud. Off to jail 50,000 bail. I
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 24, 2003
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          I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my first. I kept telling them I refused to participate in their fraud. Off to jail 50,000 bail. I was told to participate or my bail keeps getting higher.
           

          legalbear7 wrote:

          > From: "Virginia Sargeant" <TOVI7114@...> Date: Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:01pm
          > Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan Update 
          >
          > Hi   all you have to do is keep saying no no no,as you have to agree
          > to go to jail.Tom
          >

          That's what I've seen...to be convicted and incarcerated
          requires the cooperation of the victim (from Minute One).
          Hardly anyone seems willing to deny this to their usurping
          neighbors, probably in an effort to be polite and make
          friends.  When I go to court, I never cooperate, and
          consider them all liars or dupes and not worthy or capable
          of being friends.  Works for me!











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        • Lewis Mohr
          Order the video It is all in the name from the following site. Lewis -o- http://micromann.freeservers.com http://wtplc.freeservers.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 24, 2003
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            Order the video "It is all in the name" from the following site.  Lewis  -o-
             http://micromann.freeservers.com
            http://wtplc.freeservers.com
            http://trcp.freeservers.com

             Just click on any of the above!!



            keystone law <keylaw@...> wrote:
            I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my first. I kept telling them I refused to participate in their fraud. Off to jail 50,000 bail. I was told to participate or my bail keeps getting higher.
             

            legalbear7 wrote:

            > From: "Virginia Sargeant" <TOVI7114@...> Date: Sun Jun 22, 2003 5:01pm
            > Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan Update 
            >
            > Hi   all you have to do is keep saying no no no,as you have to agree
            > to go to jail.Tom
            >

            That's what I've seen...to be convicted and incarcerated
            requires the cooperation of the victim (from Minute One).
            Hardly anyone seems willing to deny this to their usurping
            neighbors, probably in an effort to be polite and make
            friends.  When I go to court, I never cooperate, and
            consider them all liars or dupes and not worthy or capable
            of being friends.  Works for me!











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          • Frog Farmer
            ... Oh, really? Why did you give them any name at all? ... Who was them ? Were they competent to understand what you meant? Probably not. ... I would never
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 27, 2003
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              keystone law wrote:

              > I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my first.


              Oh, really? Why did you give them any name at all?

              > I
              > kept telling them I refused to participate in their fraud.


              Who was "them"? Were they competent to understand what you
              meant? Probably not.

              > Off to jail 50,000 bail.


              I would never pay bail at all (can't with no money), but I
              don't even appear to consider it without having a probable
              cause hearing to determine that a crime indeed has been
              committed, and then a bail setting hearing. Were these waived?

              > I was told to participate or my bail keeps getting higher.


              Like I said, they lie. Wouldn't it have been interesting to
              see how high they could go with it? Paying bail grants
              jurisdiction. And it usually gives your adversary more time
              to prepare the case against you.

              Maybe next time you'll exercise your right to remain silent.

              I know it's hard to do. I wonder what they'd do if you were
              to stick a piece of duct tape over your own mouth...

              Do they arrest those who cannot speak, for not speaking?

              Do you have less rights than a mute?

              I don't think I have to identify myself, and no one has yet
              shown me a law that says I have to do so.

              Do you have one applicable to me?
            • keystone law
              ... Oh, really? Why did you give them any name at all? this was in the beginning of my undrestanding of the fraud. ... Who was them ? Were they competent to
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 28, 2003
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                > I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my
                first.


                Oh, really?  Why did you give them any name at all?
                this was in the beginning of my undrestanding of the fraud.

                > I
                > kept telling them I refused to participate in their
                fraud.


                Who was "them"?  Were they competent to understand what you
                meant?  Probably not.
                 
                It was the Distric Justice and the cop

                > Off to jail 50,000 bail.


                I would never pay bail at all (can't with no money),
                 
                I understand this issue now. but not then.
                 
                but I don't even appear to consider it without having a probable
                cause hearing to determine that a crime indeed has been
                committed, and then a bail setting hearing.  Were these waived?
                 
                no none were wavied. Here you are arrested and taken before a DJ. here he just sets the bail and you go where he wants to. I just went through it again the other week for fines i have no means to cause they keep thoughing me in jail and i keep losing work. 

                > I was told to participate or my bail keeps getting higher.


                Like I said, they lie.  Wouldn't it have been interesting to
                see how high they could go with it?
                 
                He set it at 50000 I kept refusing to play in there sand box. till they put a fence around me.
                 
                Paying bail grants
                jurisdiction.  And it usually gives your adversary more time
                to prepare the case against you.

                Maybe next time you'll exercise your right to remain silent.
                 
                Here inPA they throw you in jail for obstructing justice.


                I know it's hard to do.  I wonder what they'd do if you were
                to stick a piece of duct tape over your own mouth...

                Do they arrest those who cannot speak, for not speaking?

                Do you have less rights than a mute?

                I don't think I have to identify myself, and no one has yet
                shown me a law that says I have to do so.

                Do you have one applicable to me?
                 
                No but if you have cases that I need not say anything it would be great.







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              • Frog Farmer
                ... The privilege against self-incrimination, which has had a long and expansive historical development, is the essential mainstay of our adversary system,
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 28, 2003
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                  keystone law wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > No but if you have cases that I need not say anything it would be great.

                  "The privilege against self-incrimination, which has had a
                  long and expansive historical development, is the essential
                  mainstay of our adversary system, and guarantees to the
                  individual the "right to remain silent unless he chooses to
                  speak in the unfettered exercise of his own will," during a
                  period of custodial interrogation [384 U.S. 437] as well as
                  in the courts or during the course of other official
                  investigations." Pp. 458-465.

                  Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436
                • Bliss Alexandra
                  Here s another: There are a number of exemptions from the testimonial duty, the most important of which is the Fifth Amendment privilege against compulsory
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 29, 2003
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                    Here's another:

                    "There are a number of exemptions from the testimonial duty, the most important of which is the Fifth Amendment privilege against compulsory self-incrimination.  The privilege can be asserted in any proceeding, civil or criminal, administrative or judicial, investigatory or adjudicatory; and it protects against any disclosures that the witness reasonable believes could be used in a criminal prosecution or could lead to other evidene that might be so used.  This Court has been zealous to safe-guard the values that underlie the privilege."  Kastigar v. United States, 406 US 441, 216-217 (1972)

                     
                    However, I'm not sure if the Supremes have an exception to this for a traffic stop.
                    Assume the traveler is in a private automobile without the corp. state's paperwork so as not to fall under code requirements.  Also any stuff out of the Patriot Act don't know about.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Frog Farmer [mailto:frogfrmr@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:45 AM
                    To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan update


                    keystone law wrote:


                    >
                    > No but if you have cases that I need
                    not say anything it would be great.

                    "The privilege against self-incrimination, which has had a
                    long and expansive historical development, is the essential
                    mainstay of our adversary system, and guarantees to the
                    individual the "right to remain silent unless he chooses to
                    speak in the unfettered exercise of his own will," during a
                    period of custodial interrogation [384 U.S. 437] as well as
                    in the courts or during the course of other official
                    investigations." Pp. 458-465.

                    Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436





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                  • keystone law
                    ok now here in PA we remain silent. We are arrested and tossed. Our rights are violated. Now what. Where does one go from there. ... From: Frog Farmer To:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 29, 2003
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                      ok  now here in PA we remain silent. We are arrested and tossed. Our rights are violated. Now what. Where does one go from there.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:45 PM
                      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Swan update

                      keystone law wrote:


                      >
                      > No but if you have cases that I need not say anything it would be great.

                      "The privilege against self-incrimination, which has had a
                      long and expansive historical development, is the essential
                      mainstay of our adversary system, and guarantees to the
                      individual the "right to remain silent unless he chooses to
                      speak in the unfettered exercise of his own will," during a
                      period of custodial interrogation [384 U.S. 437] as well as
                      in the courts or during the course of other official
                      investigations." Pp. 458-465.

                      Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436






                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                    • Laurie Gardner
                      Most interesting point was that paying bail gives them jurisdiction.... I LOVE YOU! ... peace, without prejudice, Laurie Gardner It is the duty of the patriot
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 30, 2003
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                        Most interesting point was that paying bail gives them jurisdiction....
                        I LOVE YOU!
                        At 12:55 PM 6/28/03, you wrote:
                        > > I was arrested Xmas eve 98, for using my middle name and not my first.
                        >
                        >
                        >Oh, really? Why did you give them any name at all?
                        >this was in the beginning of my undrestanding of the fraud.
                        >
                        > > I
                        > > kept telling them I refused to participate in their fraud.
                        >
                        >
                        >Who was "them"? Were they competent to understand what you
                        >meant? Probably not.
                        >
                        >It was the Distric Justice and the cop
                        >
                        > > Off to jail 50,000 bail.
                        >
                        >
                        >I would never pay bail at all (can't with no money),
                        >
                        >I understand this issue now. but not then.
                        >
                        >but I don't even appear to consider it without having a probable
                        >cause hearing to determine that a crime indeed has been
                        >committed, and then a bail setting hearing. Were these waived?
                        >
                        >no none were wavied. Here you are arrested and taken before a DJ. here he
                        >just sets the bail and you go where he wants to. I just went through it
                        >again the other week for fines i have no means to cause they keep
                        >thoughing me in jail and i keep losing work.
                        >
                        > > I was told to participate or my bail keeps getting higher.
                        >
                        >
                        >Like I said, they lie. Wouldn't it have been interesting to
                        >see how high they could go with it?
                        >
                        >He set it at 50000 I kept refusing to play in there sand box. till they
                        >put a fence around me.
                        >
                        >Paying bail grants
                        >jurisdiction. And it usually gives your adversary more time
                        >to prepare the case against you.
                        >
                        >Maybe next time you'll exercise your right to remain silent.
                        >
                        >Here inPA they throw you in jail for obstructing justice.
                        >
                        >
                        >I know it's hard to do. I wonder what they'd do if you were
                        >to stick a piece of duct tape over your own mouth...
                        >
                        >Do they arrest those who cannot speak, for not speaking?
                        >
                        >Do you have less rights than a mute?
                        >
                        >I don't think I have to identify myself, and no one has yet
                        >shown me a law that says I have to do so.
                        >
                        >Do you have one applicable to me?
                        >
                        >No but if you have cases that I need not say anything it would be great.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                        ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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                        peace,
                        without prejudice,
                        Laurie Gardner

                        "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its
                        government."~Thomas Paine
                        "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary
                        act." ~George Orwell


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                      • Frog Farmer
                        ... Thanks - I need all the love I can get! People pay bail for convenience and expedience (they think). That, and money - they don t want to miss working for
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 30, 2003
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                          Laurie Gardner wrote:

                          > Most interesting point was that paying bail gives them jurisdiction....
                          > I LOVE YOU!

                          Thanks - I need all the love I can get!

                          People pay bail for convenience and expedience (they think).
                          That, and money - they don't want to miss working for FRNs.

                          So instead of doing the right thing, they do the easy thing.

                          If someone REALLY believed that a court had no jurisdiction
                          (they'd have to know HOW a court gets jurisdiction, wouldn't
                          they?) would they agree to the amount of bail set at their
                          bail setting hearing? What?! There WAS no bail setting
                          hearing? And WHOSE fault is THAT? And how can you have a
                          realistic bail setting before probable cause has been
                          determined? This can all be ignored in the rush to get out
                          on bail and grant jurisdiction.

                          Or, you can be "difficult" and refuse to waive any right for
                          any cause or reason.

                          Each to his own.
                        • Frog Farmer
                          Are you aware that PA is not the state called Pennsylvania? PA is an imaginary federal zone, or don t you care? I don t know the procedures for
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 8, 2003
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                            Are you aware that "PA" is not the state called
                            Pennsylvania? PA is an imaginary federal zone, or don't you
                            care?

                            I don't know the procedures for Pennsylvania. Do you know
                            the names of the people who arrested and tossed you? Were
                            they lawfully qualified to do so? How many rights did you
                            waive between the time you were arrested and the time you
                            were released (assuming you're not writing from jail right
                            now)? Do you realize that to fail to object timely can be
                            interpreted as a waiver of a right? And why do you say,
                            "we"? I'm sure you cannot know what happens in every case
                            in Pennsylvania. Maybe you were speaking of just you and
                            your friends...maybe you were arrested on probable cause for
                            some crime that could be described differently than
                            "remaining silent" (which is not a crime). If you were
                            arrested for breathing air, where would you go from there?

                            I would probably demand a probable cause hearing (to get
                            even more names) and a bail setting hearing, so I could turn
                            down bail. What did you actually do? I would demand a
                            proper arraignment, which I have not seen done in California
                            in over 20 years.

                            keystone law wrote:

                            > ok now here in PA we remain silent. We are arrested and tossed. Our
                            > rights are violated. Now what. Where does one go from there.
                            >
                            > keystone law wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > No but if you have cases that I need not say anything it would be
                            > great.
                            >
                            > "The privilege against self-incrimination, which has had a
                            > long and expansive historical development, is the essential
                            > mainstay of our adversary system, and guarantees to the
                            > individual the "right to remain silent unless he chooses to
                            > speak in the unfettered exercise of his own will," during a
                            > period of custodial interrogation [384 U.S. 437] as well as
                            > in the courts or during the course of other official
                            > investigations." Pp. 458-465.
                            >
                            > Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436
                            >
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