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IRS form 4598E put in files by member windandstone

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  • Pj
    I am new to the group tryed to search by subject but that failed. I am interested in the noted form 4598 in the files. I understand about nonresident alien
    Message 1 of 8 , May 6, 2010
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      I am new to the group tryed to search by subject but that failed. I am interested in the noted form 4598 in the files. I understand about nonresident alien filings and had seen the 4598 on fam guardian (over a year ago) but when i searched the IRS site it seems the form is no longer available. Please inform me how we currently use this or why, I understand why we send NRA forms to Philadelphia would this be more or less a declaration of non resident alien status?
      Thanks Dawn
    • windandthestone
      ... am interested in the noted form 4598 in the files. I understand about nonresident alien filings and had seen the 4598 on fam guardian (over a year ago)
      Message 2 of 8 , May 8, 2010
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        --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "Pj" <smileygirlnow@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am new to the group tryed to search by subject but that failed. I am interested in the noted form 4598 in the files. I understand about nonresident alien filings and had seen the 4598 on fam guardian (over a year ago) but when i searched the IRS site it seems the form is no longer available. Please inform me how we currently use this or why, I understand why we send NRA forms to Philadelphia would this be more or less a declaration of non resident alien status?
        > Thanks Dawn
        >

        Hi Dawn :)
        Form 4598E is a form that the IRS uses internally -- was not one for the masses until someone was dealing with the IRS through an Advocate or an Agent.  The form would be filled out by one of these two, and then sent to the employer (probably with a cover letter attached) to complete.  This form has several boxes that can be checked, including one that indicates the filer is "not engaged in any trade or business with the federal government."

        It also has a box that states (if checked) that the filer is has "Worker status is "Nonresident alien", and NOT a "resident" (26 U.S.C. 7701(b)(1)(A) or "U.S. citizen" (26 CFR §1.1-1(c)) "  

        Once the form is filled out, the IRS sends it to the employer, probably to see if there is a W-4 on file.  (All these years the IRS has killed people over that dam W-4.)  The employer will send it back with one or more reply boxes checked, and the IRS goes on from  there based on the info submitted by both parties.

        Yes, they have buried this form in the last 2 years.  I doubt they want us to know that a form says exactly what we are saying!!

        I have sent it in each year as my son's employer can't wrap their head around this,  UGGG.  And I doubt that the average reader at the IRS knows what it's for, as it didn't help for 2008.   I just keep sending it in so that he can get his SS and Medicare taxes back.  The IRS demands you hassle the employer for a long time before they will refund employment taxes.

        The form has been in the Files section for quite awhile :)  I forgot it was there, but here's a direct link to it.
        Melissa







      • Patrick McKEE
        People living in America might want to RECONSIDER their “beliefs” about “claiming” to be a NONRESIDENT ALIEN since it could very likely mean they have
        Message 3 of 8 , May 8, 2010
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          People living in America might want to RECONSIDER their “beliefs” about “claiming” to be a NONRESIDENT ALIEN since it could very likely mean they have fallen for PATRIOT MYTHOLOGY & it could lead to the award of an INTELLECTUAL Darwin Award.

           

          WITHHOLDING is for INCOME TAX liability.

           

          26 USC 3402. Income tax collected at source

          (a) Requirement of withholding

          (1) In general

          Except as otherwise provided in this section, every employer making payment of wages shall deduct and withhold upon such wages a tax determined in accordance with tables or computational procedures prescribed by the Secretary. [REST OMITTED]

          n) Employees incurring no income tax liability

          Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an employer shall not be required to deduct and withhold any tax under this chapter upon a payment of wages to an employee if there is in effect with respect to such payment a withholding exemption certificate (in such form and containing such other information as the Secretary may prescribe) furnished to the employer by the employee certifying that the employee—

          (1) incurred no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his preceding taxable year, and

          (2) anticipates that he will incur no liability for income tax imposed under subtitle A for his current taxable year.

          The Secretary shall by regulations provide for the coordination of the provisions of this subsection with the provisions of subsection (f).

          http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00003402----000-.html

           

          WITHHOLDING is REQUIRED for NONRESIDENT ALIENS, foreign corporations & foreign tax-exempt organizations.

           

          Subtitle A—Income Taxes

           

          CHAPTER 3—WITHHOLDING OF TAX ON NONRESIDENT ALIENS AND FOREIGN CORPORATIONS

           

          •Subchapter A—Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Corporations (§§ 1441—1446)

          •Subchapter B—Application of Withholding Provisions (§§ 1451—1465)

           

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sup_01_26_10_A_20_3.html

           

           

          26 USC 7701(a)(16) Withholding agent

          The term “withholding agent” means any person required to deduct and withhold any tax under the provisions of section 1441, 1442, 1443, or 1461.

          http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00007701----000-.html

           

          26 USC 1441. Withholding of tax on nonresident aliens

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00001441----000-.html

           

          26 USC 1442. Withholding of tax on foreign corporations

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00001442----000-.html

           

          26 USC 1443. Foreign tax-exempt organizations

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00001443----000-.html

           

          26 USC 1461. Liability for withheld tax

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00001461----000-.htm l

           

          Have you even been given LEGAL NOTICE that you are an INDIVIDUAL who has an INCOME TAX LIABILITY or is REQUIRED to file an income tax return?

           

          26 CFR 1.1-1…In general, the tax is payable upon the basis of returns rendered by persons liable therefor (subchapter A (sections 6001 and following), chapter 61 of the Code) or at the source of the income by withholding. [rest omitted]
          http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/aprqtr/26cfr1.1-1.htm 

           

           

          26 CFR 31.6001-6   Notice by district director requiring returns, statements, or the keeping of records.

          The district director may require any person, by notice served upon him, to make such returns, render such statements, or keep such specific records as will enable the district director to determine whether or not such person is liable for any of the taxes to which the regulations in this part have application.

          http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=de87314e866de9fe6728f4c7589924f1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=26:15.0.1.1.1.7.16.6&idno=26

           

          IF NOT, then WHY are you REQUESTING WITHHOLDING and/or filing an income tax return in the first place?

           

          http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf  

           

          WARNING Will Robinson!!! WARNING!!! Does NOT compute!

           

          Patrick in California

           

          Founder, ALLIANCE for PEACE & PROSPERITY

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alliancepeaceprosperity/

           

          "It ain't what ya don't know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin' on ya is what ya knows for sure, that just ain't so." -- Uncle Remus

           

          --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com , "Pj" <smileygirlnow@...> wrote:

          >  

          > I am new to the group tryed to search by subject but that failed.  I am interested in the noted form 4598 in the files.  I understand about nonresident alien filings and had seen the 4598 on fam guardian (over a year ago) but when i searched the IRS site it seems the form is no longer available. Please inform me how we currently use this or why, I understand why we send NRA forms to Philadelphia would this be more or less a declaration of non resident alien status?

          > Thanks Dawn

          >  

        • jerry bell
          How and why am I liable for income tax? To find out the answer, reference section 1 of Title 26 (which imposes the tax); then go to the regulations (Code of
          Message 4 of 8 , May 10, 2010
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            "How and why am I liable for income tax?"
            To find out the answer, reference section 1 of Title 26 (which imposes the tax); then go to the regulations (Code of Federal Regulations), and one would find the following:
            26 CFR § 1.1-1(a) General rule. (1) Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every individual who is a ‘citizen’ or ‘resident’ of the United States."
            Who or what is a citizen? Subsection (c) of the same section answers this:
            26 CFR § 1.1-1(c) Every person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction is a citizen.
            keep going around this very simple fact and see what happens down the road. 

          • Jim Stiner
            ... tax); then go to the regulations (Code of Federal Regulations), and one ... tax on the income of every individual who is a ‘citizen’ or ‘resident’
            Message 5 of 8 , May 10, 2010
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              >"How and why am I liable for income tax?"

              >To find out the answer, reference section 1 of Title 26 (which imposes the tax); then go to the regulations (Code of Federal Regulations) , >and one would find the following:

              >26 CFR § 1.1-1(a) General rule. (1) Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every individual who is a ‘citizen’ or ‘resident’ of >the United States ."

              >Who or what is a citizen? Subsection (c) of the same section answers this:

              >26 CFR § 1.1-1(c) Every person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction is a citizen.

              >keep going around this very simple fact and see what happens down the road. 

               

              You left out an important comma after United States . Being born and being subject are two different things.

               

              It is impossible to be born in an artificial entity, and being subject would indicate not all are subject, otherwise why include it? It called escape value for the authors and their posterity. .

               

              Why not write, “All persons born on the land known collectively as the United States are citizens and therefore subject to what we say?”

               

              So the question is. “How does a baby born on the land become subject, and do all babies born on the land do so voluntarily?”

               

              When did you agree to become a citizen and make yourself subject?  

               

              Were you brainwashed into believing you had no choice?

               

              Jim

               

            • Patrick McKEE
              Terms & phrases in LAW often have SPECIFIC meanings. While clearly establishing a national rule on national citizenship and settling a controversy of long
              Message 6 of 8 , May 10, 2010
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                Terms & phrases in LAW often have SPECIFIC meanings.



                While clearly establishing a national rule on national citizenship and
                settling a controversy of long standing with regard to the derivation of
                national citizenship, the Fourteenth Amendment did not obliterate the
                distinction between national and state citizenship, but rather preserved
                it.6 The Court has accorded the first sentence of Sec. 1 a construction in
                accordance with the congressional intentions, holding that a child born in
                the United States of Chinese parents who themselves were ineligible to be
                naturalized is nevertheless a citizen of the United States entitled to all
                the rights and privileges of citizenship.7 Congress’ intent in including the
                qualifying phrase “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” was apparently
                to exclude from the reach of the language children born of diplomatic
                representatives of a foreign state and children born of alien enemies in
                hostile occupation, both recognized exceptions to the common–law rule of
                acquired citizenship by birth,8 as well as children of members of Indian
                tribes subject to tribal laws.9 The lower courts have generally held that
                the citizenship of the parents determines the citizenship of children born
                on vessels in United States territorial waters or on the high seas.10



                ANNOTATED CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ARTICLE 14, SECTION
                1

                http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt14a_user.html#amdt14a_hd2



                Saying "Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every
                individual who is a ‘citizen’ or ‘resident’ of the United States" does NOT
                mean that it "imposes an income tax on the income of every ‘citizen’ or
                ‘resident’ of the United States".



                WHAT it does MEAN is that the income tax is imposed on certain SPECIFIC
                “individuals” who are “citizens” or “residents” of the United States.



                INDIVIDUAL - 1 obsolete : INSEPARABLE, 2 a : of, relating to, or
                distinctively associated with an individual <an individual effort> b : being
                an individual or existing as an indivisible whole c : intended for one
                person <an individual serving>, 3 : existing as a distinct entity :
                SEPARATE, 4 : having marked individuality <an individual style>, synonyms
                see SPECIAL, CHARACTERISTIC

                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/INDIVIDUAL



                And those INDIVIDUALS are REQUIRED to FILE a return or have the tax
                WITHHELD.

                26 CFR 1.1-1…In general, the tax is payable upon the basis of returns
                rendered by persons liable therefor (subchapter A (sections 6001 and
                following), chapter 61 of the Code) or at the source of the income by
                withholding. [rest omitted]


                <http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.go
                v/cfr_2004/aprqtr/26cfr1.1-1.htm>
                http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov
                /cfr_2004/aprqtr/26cfr1.1-1.htm



                LIABLE - 1 a : obligated according to law or equity : responsible b :
                subject to appropriation or attachment, 2 a : being in a position to incur
                —used with to <liable to a fine> b : exposed or subject to some usually
                adverse contingency or action <watch out or you're liable to fall>

                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liable



                ISN’T that the reason WHY there is a provision for LEGAL NOTICE to those
                INDIVIDUALS to establish the RECORDKEEPING & FILING REQUIRMENTS to DETIRMINE
                LIABILITY?



                26 CFR 31.6001-6 Notice by district director requiring returns,
                statements, or the keeping of records.

                The district director may require any person, by notice served upon him, to
                make such returns, render such statements, or keep such specific records as
                will enable the district director to determine whether or not such person is
                liable for any of the taxes to which the regulations in this part have
                application.

                http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr
                <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=de87314e866de9fe67
                28f4c7589924f1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=26:15.0.1.1.1.7.16.6&idno=26>
                &sid=de87314e866de9fe6728f4c7589924f1&rgn=div8&view=text&node=26:15.0.1.1.1.
                7.16.6&idno=26





                NOTICE - 1 a : a notification or communication of a fact, claim, demand, or
                proceeding, see also process service; The requirements of when, how, and
                what notice must be given to a person are often prescribed by a statute,
                rule, or contract. b : awareness of such a fact, claim, demand, or
                proceeding

                http://research.lawyers.com/glossary/notice.html



                REQUIRE - 1 a : to claim or ask for by right and authority b archaic :
                request, 2 a : to call for as suitable or appropriate <the occasion requires
                formal dress> b : to demand as necessary or essential : have a compelling
                need for <all living beings require food>, 3 : to impose a compulsion or
                command on : compel, 4 chiefly British : to feel or be obliged —used with a
                following infinitive <one does not require to be a specialist — Elizabeth
                Bowen>

                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/require



                REQUIREMENT - something required: a : something wanted or needed : necessity
                <production was not sufficient to satisfy military requirements> b :
                something essential to the existence or occurrence of something else :
                condition <failed to meet the school's requirements for graduation>

                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/requirement



                Patrick in California



                Founder, ALLIANCE for PEACE & PROSPERITY

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alliancepeaceprosperity/



                "It ain't what ya don't know that hurts ya. What really puts a hurtin' on ya
                is what ya knows for sure, that just ain't so." -- Uncle Remus











                --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Stiner" <jim118@...> wrote:

                >

                > >"How and why am I liable for income tax?"

                >
              • E Junker
                To which United States are they referring? The one comprised of the possessions and called United States or the several States of the Union? That very
                Message 7 of 8 , May 10, 2010
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                  To which "United States" are they referring?  The one comprised of the possessions and called United States or the several States of the Union?

                  That "very simple fact" doesn't require "going around" so much as just plowed through.  Being subject to the income tax is  a matter of what privilege you exercise to make that income.  Further, the income is not what is taxed.  The income is what is used to compute the tax.  The tax is on the exercise of employing a privileged occupation.

                  So, even if I were a citizen of the United States it would still be necessary for me to work in a taxable occupation, "a government trade or business" defined at 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(26). 



                  From: jerry bell <anguillabell@...>
                  To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 6:03:18 AM
                  Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: IRS form 4598E put in files by member windandstone

                   

                  "How and why am I liable for income tax?"
                  To find out the answer, reference section 1 of Title 26 (which imposes the tax); then go to the regulations (Code of Federal Regulations) , and one would find the following:
                  26 CFR § 1.1-1(a) General rule. (1) Section 1 of the Code imposes an income tax on the income of every individual who is a ‘citizen’ or ‘resident’ of the United States."
                  Who or what is a citizen? Subsection (c) of the same section answers this:
                  26 CFR § 1.1-1(c) Every person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction is a citizen.
                  keep going around this very simple fact and see what happens down the road. 

                • Frog Farmer
                  ... You just earned 1,000 points! I get sick of people quoting that bogus amendment and not picking up on that condition. ... They have to want to escape,
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 10, 2010
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                    Jim Stiner wrote:

                    > Being born and being subject are two different things.

                    You just earned 1,000 points! I get sick of people quoting that bogus
                    amendment and not picking up on that condition.

                    > It is impossible to be born in an artificial entity, and being subject
                    > would indicate not all are subject, otherwise why include it? It
                    > called escape value for the authors and their posterity. .

                    They have to want to escape, right? What would really sell would be a
                    way to enjoy the benefits of escaping while not actually escaping.

                    > Why not write, "All persons born on the land known collectively as the
                    > United States are citizens and therefore subject to what we say?"

                    Those two words, "United States", do not signify land. To signify the
                    land using those two words, you need two additional words, "of America".
                    The use of the two words is not the same as the use of the four words.
                    Guess how many people are aware of THAT!

                    > So the question is. "How does a baby born on the land become subject,
                    > and do all babies born on the land do so voluntarily?"

                    The ignorant parents are cajoled into waiving rights and making false
                    statements under penalty of perjury, often out of psychologically
                    induced feelings of a need to conform. The Lemming Principle. When the
                    18 year-olds have a short time to rectify the situation, few are aware
                    of it.

                    > When did you agree to become a citizen and make yourself subject?

                    Usually at the first opportunity, maybe even in a church!

                    > Were you brainwashed into believing you had no choice?

                    When I was in senior year of high school, I saw a concerted effort at
                    brainwashing in my school, and saw where it would lead, so I undertook
                    to brainwash myself to my own choice of programming before they could
                    impose theirs upon me. I'm glad I did, because it does last, and I'm
                    glad to have selected my own program rather than have theirs imposed. I
                    bought a book on self-hypnosis for $1 and quit smoking too.

                    Regards,

                    FF
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