Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [tips_and_tricks] Re: WORDS to WATCH for

Expand Messages
  • Frog Farmer
    ... That is gratifying; I myself winced at those words that came out, but I was intentionally stirring the adrenaline (or the dung?), believe me. And I am a
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 20, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dale Pond posted:

      > >SOMEBODY has to regulate and control the mindless masses! Why NOT let
      > them sign up for the regulation?! Can you STOP them?! You and I are
      > vastly outnumbered, so we should live out the rest of our lives in our
      > own freedom as we can do it and let others do as they will. We all
      > reap what we sow.
      > Regards,
      > >FF
      > FF, because of the high esteem I have for you and your freedom-
      > oriented experience, I was a bit "stirred" when I saw your point of
      > view.

      That is gratifying; I myself winced at those words that came out, but I
      was intentionally stirring the adrenaline (or the dung?), believe me.
      And I am a crankier older old fart than last year at this time.

      Bear frowns on Socratic teaching, something I never realized equaled
      asking questions in order to get people to look at the answers, one of
      my favorite time and labor-saving devices. I tell others about
      conforming to Bear's rules for posting here, which I do out of respect
      for him as the owner/maintenance man here. He's kept this going longer
      and better than anything that I have done! And conforming to his rules
      also is a good mental exercise because it can be done; it just takes a
      little effort. And that is also a good tip for those contemplating
      spending time in court. If you are going to do something take the
      effort to do it right.

      > Granted, I've sometimes thought I'd like to find a nice quiet secluded
      > place and withdraw from all public debates currently swirling around
      > the minds and hearts of America right now.

      Sounds nice. Right now I'm in old Mexico a few miles south of the old
      Russian border, on old Spanish land grant land, now turned into one of
      the top toxic waste sites on the EPA's list. I almost never hear
      English spoken except from maybe one fifth of the People I encounter at
      Indian casinos within 50 miles of here. I've been attacked and left for
      dead here, had numerous armed stand-offs with local would-be authority
      figures, and even several armed stand-offs with criminal drug gangs. I
      was never armed until after I was attacked and left for dead here and
      was persuaded and instructed in arming myself by the sheriff's deputies
      here. We are in "The Wild West" as I tell it to my relatives "back
      East". Everyone wonders why I stay. Lately I do too.

      > All these debates show
      > massive confusion in the minds of nearly everyone. The confusion comes
      > from general ignorance of not knowing of who we are, who 'they' are
      > and all the intricate interrelations between the two. Confusion or
      > ignorance results in fear which engender bad decisions of action -
      > chaos or at least misery in some form.

      I wish I had a nickel (now that the Kahre decision confirms that the
      receipt of one nickel is ten cents in income!) for every time I question
      the use of the words "we" "us" "they" "them" etc.!

      > Just this early AM I intended to write a short general blurb on
      > people's relationship to their state governments. Taking the Nebraska
      > Constitution (1937) and Colorado Constitution (1886) I find these two
      > documents are widely divergent in what they say and how they say it.

      I think that was the nice thing about different states - you don't like
      one then you can move to another one. State shop, so to speak. I like
      the wild frontier here where the people have decided by their (in)action
      to make the offices vacant. Still, "the Show Must Go On", and I do
      cheer on those who make the effort to provide the best entertainment
      public monies can buy (like our great actor in the governor role), as
      long as they remember it's just a show and don't try to take it too
      seriously or too far (with me)!

      > What they say as concerns people's relations to their respective
      > states is likewise very different. Realizing these documents have been
      > extensively modified over the years leads one into a morass of such
      > complexity nothing short of a lengthy and scholarly study would be
      > able to decipher the mess.

      ...in a country where most VCR clocks were never even set right!

      > I assume this situation applies more or
      > less equally to the other 48 state constitutions. Right now I feel my
      > original intent is borderline hopeless and not really doable by me
      > anyway.

      I have a "Ron Paul activist" friend who I've recently been trying to
      cheer up from feeling that no matter what he does, nothing improves. I
      told him to free himself ASAP (because all the info to do so is now on
      the internet for anyone curious enough to want to find it) and then be
      an example for others around him to see. But I told him not to wait for
      confirmation from "the masses" because we don't live long enough.

      Look, most "patriots" cannot even persuade their own extended families!
      I can't. Can you? Sure, MAYBE they hear you out, but would they ACT on
      your knowledge base?

      > At this very moment as I write this I am leaning quite steeply in the
      > direction of your statement - find a nice quiet place to get out of
      > the force 5 gale certain to come.

      I'm a pilot. Rather than stand against such a wind, I'd rather be let
      loose in it.

      > On the other hand I know there is another force out there besides the
      > "regulated" and the "regulators".

      Absolutely! There are many different groups and perspectives in life.
      I am constantly surprised by discovering the different realities we can
      have going on at once here on this planet! Those two groups you named
      above there, they may have to come up with new identities when the house
      of cards finally all is laying on the table. Never forget the dilemma
      confronting Ceausescu's policemen!

      > This because the entire regulation
      > and perceived need for regulation context comes from the idea
      > regulating EFFECTS and SYMPTOMS is a viable and desirable operation.
      > As we all know messing with the effects gains nothing as concerns its
      > cause. Stirring a dung pile does not make it smell better or go away.
      > Or put another way we can continuously shovel smelly dung or we can
      > remove the pooper and be done with it.

      Believe it or not, locally here, dung is considered a resource! But I
      know what you mean.

      > The cause of the effects we see in society is mostly ignorance born of
      > false beliefs in the minds of the general public (regulated) as also
      > in the minds of the so-called "regulators".

      And we really cannot change this; at least I have not been able to,
      after spending a lot of time trying. I have been learning poker. And
      you learn that if a way of playing doesn't "work" after a decent trial
      period, it is time to change strategy.

      > They are all operating
      > with muddled thinking based on erroneous beliefs which can only result
      > in chaos, confusion, pain and suffering - which what we (those who can
      > see) are seeing everywhere. To use a computer metaphor - dung in dung
      > out.

      A pendulum swings, and it cannot reverse direction until it gets to
      where it's going in the direction it is going. Hang in there; we're
      almost at the change in direction. From the absolute bottom, there's
      nowhere to go but up! Actually the absolute bottom is probably some
      years away right now, but things are happening, that's for sure. We
      live in very interesting times.

      > If one wished to have a positive impact on this confusion attention
      > would have to be directed at the CAUSE; i.e., ignorance, opinions and
      > false beliefs. A wise person does not be caught up in arguments over
      > whose beliefs are more real. This forum and countless other forums are
      > all scratching for whatever truths can be found or discerned such that
      > this massive confusion in our minds and "out there" can be diminished.
      > Some forums excel at this while others seem to do little more than
      > stir the dung heap or move it from spot to spot but still in the room.

      I blame everything on the parents!

      > I feel it behooves those of us who have certain "understandings" or
      > "wisdom" to step forward in whichever ways and means that present
      > themselves to voice our wisdom such as it may be.

      The name Benazir Bhutto comes to mind... also numerous others over the
      past decades. Stick your neck out, and it gets chopped. I stuck mine
      out, and got my scars but not a head-severing because I was playing with
      a machine whose actions could pretty much be predicted. Now I think
      that machine is so broken, pieces could fly off unexpectedly and take an
      eye out or even decapitate one near it! If such a machine shows up
      here, I act to pull the plug and not play with it.

      > The world is crying
      > out for peace but there is no peace in false beliefs, unsubstantiated
      > opinions and ignorance. The wisdom some have is the salve others
      > desperately need and seek but usually know not enough to ask. The end
      > result of such sharing of wisdom would be a peace that progressively
      > expands into and throughout society until eventually we get back what
      > we sowed - peace in our neighbors which is peace in our society.

      In the last telephone conversation I had with the local authority
      action-figures, it was expressed to me that "all we want is peace" and I
      said, "me too!" and the next time they came here in force they admitted
      it was an accident as those involved had failed to do adequate
      intelligence work and had no idea whose domain they were intruding upon,
      but even that incident was satisfactorily resolved in my favor because I
      maintained control through my use of the knowledge I possess. How many
      of my local friends and neighbors do you think might act as I do? I
      know of a handful. That's a high number for this stuff, right?

      Here's part of a recent exchange between a local activist and myself:

      He starts off:
      > I hadn't meant to send that yet, as I hadn't finished researching,
      > but I believe we're both on the same page here, we both want to see
      > sound money and avoid the Banksters enslavement, am I right?

      I see it and I do it. I don't need to "want it"; I have it.

      > What you call lies are simply truths which apply to our Society with
      > very few exceptions.

      They are lies. They deceive the believers of them. There is no such
      thing as "our society", unless you are speaking for yourself and others
      so situated. You can't be meaning me, or many many others.

      > If you are Sovereign, as are others,

      I have never said that I am. You have, and I have not corrected you. I
      know I share in it, because the law says I do. I was born into this
      mess and have always tried to learn the laws so I can fit in better and
      make sense of everything. It took years and paying for an education to
      do that. My test was when I took all my issues to court right here in
      this county and won, and inspired a large number of others to win. I
      was infamous at the courthouse for YEARS! But I won all my cases.

      > and you know
      > and use the law to save yourself, what good does that do you or
      > anyone, if our Society as a whole collapses around you?

      We only live so long. You will not succeed in saving "society" (a
      purely mental construct on your part) in your lifetime. Look how long
      I've spent trying to get you to see basics, with no success. If
      everyone did as I do, the problems would be solved. Could you win a
      case when you defied so-called authority? I proved the "authority" was
      bogus. Most of what people see is a show for gullible childlike
      believers of lies. Are you hoping for the day when gullible believers
      can believe lies and not suffer the consequences that delusion produces?

      > Where do you think you will be then?

      You don't seem to recognize that the Titanic has already hit the iceberg
      and lobster is no longer being served. I'll be wherever I am. Do you
      want to talk about indicia of collapse? Look all around us.

      > Not that its not a good idea, just like putting you finger in a leaky
      > hull of a sinking ship- you'll drown just as fast as everyone else on
      > board when the ship hits the bottom....

      You forgot about my self-inflating rubber raft, and those of my
      transoceanic rafting teammates, not to mention our wetsuits and other
      equipment anticipating the worst of things. That's right, you're not on
      our team and how could you ever have known of our abilities? I've shown
      you lots of valuable things in the way of information but I cannot think
      of any that hit the mark. You keep using the phrase "over your head"
      and then whatever it is seems to stay there. And you told me that the
      only law book you ever looked at was Black's Law Dictionary.

      > I didn't address your points because I don't think they matter to the
      > world as a whole,

      I know they don't and if you are waiting for the world as a whole to
      validate you, best wishes. My points happen to be based upon facts, not
      mere opinions. Your reality does not have room for all the facts I am
      ready to dish up for you, I'm sorry to point out.

      > not that they aren't important, or won't matter at some point,

      For you...

      > but for now the most important thing as I see it is to wake the masses

      > to understand the dire need to throw out these criminals before we
      > become enslaved by them.

      Good l-ck. You are a very new arrival at a very old party. But this
      still does not explain you ignoring certain facts that you find
      uncomfortable, such as the fact that you can free yourself anytime you
      wish without waiting for anyone to join you. But you do not.

      > At which point I don't
      > think any individual, Sovereign or not, will be able to make any
      > impact for good or freedom. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

      Using the word "sovereign" causes useless confusion if you ask me. I've
      never found using that word was necessary to win any of the cases I've
      won using the old ordinary laws that have been in the public domain for
      decades, even centuries. However, Tom Jefferson knew what it meant for
      an American man to control his own court. You might try it sometime
      after the number of law books you've cracked has passed a dozen or so.

      End of excerpt.

      Guys, I'm not trying to be negative, but only realistic. I think all
      this BS has to collapse before it can result in anything better. Right
      now we have all the laws we need to have our own individual freedoms if
      we want to use them. Actually, they are a small minority of the laws
      out there, because most laws are for the voluntarily un-free. I have
      spent years trying to help out, and have more success with people I'll
      never meet than those I live and interact with. So I let those
      statistics temper my zeal. Sorry, but I'm in constant pain from former
      life-threatening injuries and feel like, like it or not, I'm going to be
      part of that mass culling coming up, just as a natural synchronicity of
      the end of my life with it. I'm not suicidal, but believe my cat will
      indeed outlive me. So I don't lose sleep worrying that the masses won't
      awaken before I go.


    • Frog Farmer
      ... Then today somebody posted on a list that is going extinct (and I m just clipping here so don t ask about sources and fact-checking etc., I m just passing
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 22, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Frog Farmer wrote:
        > -------------
        > End of excerpt.
        > Guys, I'm not trying to be negative, but only realistic. I think all
        > this BS has to collapse before it can result in anything better.
        > Right now we have all the laws we need to have our own individual
        > freedoms if we want to use them. ...So I don't lose sleep worrying
        > that the masses won't awaken before I go.


        Then today somebody posted on a list that is going extinct (and I'm just
        clipping here so don't ask about sources and fact-checking etc., I'm
        just passing on an IDEA; I have no idea where this is from or when it
        was uttered:

        "Opening Statement of the Hon. John M. Cleland.....

        Our concern, however, is not only the action of two Luzerne County
        judges. Our concern is also the inaction of others. Inaction by judges,
        prosecutors, public defenders, the defense bar, public officials and
        private citizens -- those who knew but failed to speak; those who saw
        but failed to act.

        Our concern is also the inaction of those who would have acted but did
        not have the tools needed to assess the information that might have been
        an early warning of the system's breakdown.

        All of those involved -- whether by action, inaction or silence --
        whether by willful choice or benign ignorance -- engaged in an assault
        on the fairness and impartiality of our legal system. It was an assault
        on the very rule of law.

        This is a serious matter indeed, because an attack on the rule of law is
        an attack on democracy itself. The sense of community that underlies
        democratic government is sustained by the sure faith that law will be
        applied uniformly and fairly, without fear or favor, or corruption.

        Judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys serve as officers of the
        court, servants of the high calling of the pursuit of justice. When that
        noble service is diverted to improper ends, however, we all suffer the

        But, we must remember it is not only members of the Bar who are called
        to pursue justice. Every citizen bears that burden, every citizen shares
        that responsibility, because in a democracy the pursuit of justice is
        the essence of civic obligation.

        "Americans would die on their feet rather than live on their knees."
        George Washington

        "The only way for a reporter to look on a politician is down." H.L.
        Mencken (1880-1956)

        "The mere title of Lawyer is sufficient to deprive a man of public
        confidence. The most innocent and irreproachable life cannot guard a
        lawyer against the hatred of his fellow citizens." --John Q. Adams

        "The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided
        according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to
        judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo
        L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971).

        "If we know the truth, we must tell it; if we don't, we must learn it!"
        It is critical to our spirit.

        "It is not the function of our government to keep the Citizen from
        falling into error; it is the function of the Citizen to keep the
        government from falling into error." American Communications Ass'n v.
        Douds, 339 U.S. 382, 442.

        ---end of clipping-----

        Now FF sez: See, if the process was still working, tips and tricks for
        court might involve just knowing the law and trying to conform with it
        for a nice outcome. But when the process doesn't work, "doing it right"
        might not be enough, but only a qualifier to get you into the real game,
        where now you have to preplan your moves counting on the built-in
        corruption and ignorance and fraud.

        We are in a state of flux. More Americans do not know about the things
        we are talking about than do know. I do not trust the courts for
        justice anymore, but human nature remains the same. My best tip is to
        make people who look for trouble not want to deal with you because they
        might get too much coming back their way. Try to show by your words and
        actions that messing with you may not be economically beneficial to
        those involved.


      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.