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Liens

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  • Al Cintra-Leite
    I just heard someone verbally pronounce inalienable rights , and unalienable rights , as in a LIEN able rights , and un a LIEN able rights , sounding like
    Message 1 of 3 , May 24, 2009
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      I just heard someone verbally pronounce inalienable rights , and
      unalienable rights , as
      "in a LIEN able" rights , and "un a LIEN able" rights , sounding like
      someone could maybe LEAN on someone elses rights or someone even maybe
      could place a LIEN on certain rights , but not others....
    • ultrac21@frontiernet.net
      Hello Al Cintra-Leite and others on this list, Regarding unalienable vs. inalienable . A few years ago I was perusing an American History college text. In
      Message 2 of 3 , May 25, 2009
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        Hello Al Cintra-Leite and others on this list,

        Regarding "unalienable" vs. "inalienable".

        A few years ago I was perusing an American History college text. In the section on Thomas Jefferson, some historical background on the Declaration of Independence was given.

        In the 1880s and 1890s a dispute arose between legal history researchers and literary history researchers as to which word Thomas Jefferson intended, "inalienable" or "unalienable"?

        The research groups asked members of Congress to look into the question. Congress assigned the Library of Congress to investigate. The Library of Congress turned up several versions that were prepared by "copyists", some used "inalienable" and others used "unalienable". Even a cut and paste copy that Thomas Jefferson prepared himself was unclear because of multiple crossed out words. Finally, in 1903 the Library of Congress made a formal request to the U.S. State Department to ask the British government to open their archive and examine the two copies sent to England -- one copy to King George III and the other copy to Parliament. The British government complied. Both copies used the word UNALIENABLE (capitalized emphasis mine). As a result, the State Department reported back to the Library of Congress that Thomas Jefferson intended the word "unalienable". This information was provided to members of Congress and subsequently to the legal and literary researchers.

        In recent years, publishers of the Declaration of Independence are aware of the research done in 1903 by the Library of Congress and the U.S. State Department and print the Declaration using the word "unalienable" -- even though the Jefferson Memorial has the word "inalienable" chiseled into granite. The Library of Congress, in its report back to Congress, stated that the 1740 Oxford English Dictionary that was in common use in the American Colonies at the time of the Revolution indicated that the definition of the word "unalienable" was the stronger word.

        The word unalienable is the "stronger word" because it connotes that Rights, Freedoms, and Liberties are inherent, natural, infinite in scope, and emanate from our Creator. "Unalienable" means that one cannot be alienated or separated from those rights. Because such unalienable rights are inherent from our Creator, they cannot be sold, given away, or denied, not even intentionally. They are inherent in our being. While "inalienable" implies that they can be, that separation or "alienation" is possible, or might be possible, or leaves the possiblity open. Unalienable means there is no such possibility.

        As to the pronunciation of "un-a-LIEN-able" and the implication that some kind of lien might be involved, I don't think so. I think the intended connotation is that of alienation and separation. I think the problem is that even though we have unalienable rights "built-in" to our being, many of us fail to exercise those rights, but we have them nonetheless -- inherent in our natures.

        Best regards from Virgil
        (from the high country of eastern Arizona at 7,000 feet)


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Al Cintra-Leite" <stonekutteral@...>
        To: "tips and tricks" <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:06:12 PM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona)
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Liens








        I just heard someone verbally pronounce inalienable rights , and
        unalienable rights , as
        "in a LIEN able" rights , and "un a LIEN able" rights , sounding like
        someone could maybe LEAN on someone elses rights or someone even maybe
        could place a LIEN on certain rights , but not others....
      • BOB GREGORY
        *A big thanks to Virgil for a very well written and scholarly post. That is quite refreshing. Certainly I agree with Jefferson that the basic rights of people
        Message 3 of 3 , May 25, 2009
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          A big thanks to Virgil for a very well written and scholarly post.  That is quite refreshing.

          Certainly I agree with Jefferson that the basic rights of people are foundational and
          should be UNALIENABLE.  But throughout the history of the world virtually every nation,
          without exception, has started out or ended up denying those basic rights to its people.

          A shockproof watch is only shockproof until a big enough shock comes along.  Bulletproof
          glass is only bulletproof until a big enough bullet comes along.  And rights are unalienable
          only until a big enough bad actor or group of bad actors comes along to take them away. 
          Just look what happens when some cocky hotshot cop or sheriff's deputy decides he
          doesn't like your looks or something you said.  Or see what happens if someone is in the
          custody of the FEDS and they don't want him to see the light of day for a while.  All the
          habeas corpus writs you can draft won't do any good if you can't find him because he's
          being shuttled around in the system.

          The most significant reason that we enjoy some measure of freedom is that it comforts
          people to believe they are free.  The actual degree of freedom enjoyed by Americans has
          steadily declined over the past two hundred years, but the propaganda machine has steadily
          told them they they are free and live in the best country in the world.   As Goethe wrote, "
          None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." 


          And a time is upon us now when we should all know and heed something Frank Zappa said:


          "The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."


          On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 3:59 AM, <ultrac21@...> wrote:


          Hello Al Cintra-Leite and others on this list,

          Regarding "unalienable" vs. "inalienable".

          A few years ago I was perusing an American History college text. In the section on Thomas Jefferson, some historical background on the Declaration of Independence was given.

          In the 1880s and 1890s a dispute arose between legal history researchers and literary history researchers as to which word Thomas Jefferson intended, "inalienable" or "unalienable"?


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