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California Commercial Code 2511 tender of payment

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  • Al Cintra-Leite
    I thought the following law from the California Commercial Code supports those who wish to give some sort of IOU in payment instead of legal Tender ..which is
    Message 1 of 7 , May 17, 2009
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      I thought the following law from the California Commercial Code
      supports those who wish to give some sort of IOU in payment instead of
      "legal Tender"..which is actually a misuse of language .....A tender of
      payment is an offer of payment ..."tender " is being used a verb, and
      the Federal Reserve Corporation has stopped using the "A" with it , in
      an attempt to make "tender" a noun... it is not a noun but a verb,
      though it can be used as an adjective, as in , "This steak is tender."


      California Commercial Code
      2511. (1) Unless otherwise agreed, tender of payment is a condition
      to the seller's duty to tender and complete any delivery.
      (2) Tender of payment is sufficient when made by any means or in
      any manner current in the ordinary course of business unless the
      seller demands payment in legal tender and gives any extension of
      time reasonably necessary to procure it.
      (3) Subject to the provisions of this code on the effect of an
      instrument on an obligation (Section 3310), payment by check is
      conditional and is defeated as between the parties by dishonor of the
      check on due presentment.
    • BOB GREGORY
      The word tender in the business or legal sense can be either a verb (transitive or intransitive) or a noun. ten-der verb (used with object) 1. to present
      Message 2 of 7 , May 18, 2009
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        The word "tender" in the business or legal sense can be either a verb (transitive or intransitive) or a noun.



        ten-der

        –verb (used with object)
        1.     to present formally for acceptance; make formal offer of: to tender one's resignation.
        2.     to offer or proffer.
        3.     Law. to offer, as money or goods, in payment of a debt or other obligation, esp. in exact accordance with the terms of the law and of the obligation.
        –verb (used without object)
        4.     to make or submit a bid (often fol. by for).
        –noun
        5.     the act of tendering; an offer of something for acceptance.
        6.     something tendered or offered, esp. money, as in payment.
        7.     Commerce. an offer made in writing by one party to another to execute certain work, supply certain commodities, etc., at a given cost; bid.
        8.     Law. an offer, as of money or goods, in payment or satisfaction of a debt or other obligation.

        ----------------------

        On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Al Cintra-Leite <stonekutteral@...> wrote:
         I thought the following law from the California Commercial Code supports those who wish to give some sort of IOU in payment instead of "legal Tender"..which is actually a misuse of language .....A tender of payment is an offer of payment ..."tender " is being used a verb, and the Federal Reserve Corporation has stopped using the "A" with it , in an attempt to make "tender" a noun... it is not a noun but a verb, though it can be used as an adjective, as in , "This steak is tender."

      • Al Cintra-Leite
        Well, Yes, because a noun is a person , place , or thing , and anything can be a Thing , so in that sense an action , which are usually described by verbs ,
        Message 3 of 7 , May 18, 2009
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          Well, Yes, because a noun is a person , place , or thing , and anything
          can be a Thing , so in that sense an action , which are usually
          described by verbs , can be a thing , but tender in the sense of money
          was always used as a verb until people started misusing it. I have a
          copy of the Oxford english dictionary , and in the one instance they
          claim it can be used as a noun, (as "legal tender" all of the
          illustrating sentences except one are actually using it as a verb , and
          the only sentence using as a noun I believe to be poor grammar , even
          if the makers of the Oxford Dictionary used it.... look closely at your
          examples and you will see they all relate to actions , which are
          usually described with verbs , although it is true that a noun is a
          person , place or thing... James Ewart discusses this point in his
          excellent book "Money" , although Dr. Edwin Viera doesn't mention that
          issue in his monumental two volume "Pieces of Eight" and Viera does use
          "Legal Tender " as a noun himself , but I think Ewart has a valid point
          about the Federal reserve bank taking the "A" off of the bills they
          print up... they used to say "this note is A Legal tender for all debts
          public and private " now they say "This note is Legal tender for all
          debts public and private"... if it made no difference then why did they
          change it? just to save ink? I think there is more to it than just
          saving ink... and a tender is an Offer , so a Federal reserve Note
          isn't actually a note , because a note needs four things , it needs a
          payor , a payee , a due date , and an amount , they used to say United
          States (the Payor).... Pay bearer (the Payee) on demand(the due Date)
          twenty dollars in gold(the amount)... now they don't have any of those
          elements , thus they are not a "Note" and are "Legal tender" that is ,
          a contract forced on those who don't want to use it , as a debt
          tendered and refused is a debt paid at law, this is unfair to someone
          who is owed money and is offered Federal reserve notes instead , as
          there is no real money...... just some thoughts....

          On May 18, 2009, at 10:39 AM, BOB GREGORY wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > The word "tender" in the business or legal sense can be either a verb
          > (transitive or intransitive) or a noun.
          >
          >
          > ten-der
          >
          > –verb (used with object)
          > 1.     to present formally for acceptance; make formal offer of: to
          > tender one's resignation.
          > 2.     to offer or proffer.
          > 3.     Law. to offer, as money or goods, in payment of a debt or
          > other obligation, esp. in exact accordance with the terms of the law
          > and of the obligation.
          > –verb (used without object)
          > 4.     to make or submit a bid (often fol. by for).
          > –noun
          > 5.     the act of tendering; an offer of something for acceptance.
          > 6.     something tendered or offered, esp. money, as in payment.
          > 7.     Commerce. an offer made in writing by one party to another to
          > execute certain work, supply certain commodities, etc., at a given
          > cost; bid.
          > 8.     Law. an offer, as of money or goods, in payment or
          > satisfaction of a debt or other obligation.
          >
          > ----------------------
          >
          > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Al Cintra-Leite
          > <stonekutteral@...> wrote:
          >  I thought the following law from the California Commercial Code
          > supports those who wish to give some sort of IOU in payment instead of
          > "legal Tender"..which is actually a misuse of language .....A tender
          > of payment is an offer of payment ..."tender " is being used a verb,
          > and the Federal Reserve Corporation has stopped using the "A" with it
          > , in an attempt to make "tender" a noun... it is not a noun but a
          > verb, though it can be used as an adjective, as in , "This steak is
          > tender."
          >
        • Frog Farmer
          ... Maybe they were just thoughts ... I hope that s all they were, because I am convinced that FRNs are NOT legal tender at all, except in the same sense
          Message 4 of 7 , May 19, 2009
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            Al Cintra-Leite:

            > ... thus they are not a "Note" and are "Legal
            > tender" that is , a contract forced on those who don't want to use it
            > , as a debt tendered and refused is a debt paid at law, this is unfair
            > to someone who is owed money and is offered Federal reserve notes
            > instead , as there is no real money...... just some thoughts....

            Maybe they were "just thoughts"... I hope that's all they were, because
            I am convinced that FRNs are NOT "legal tender" at all, except in the
            same sense that ANYTHING is legal to tender (offer).

            You also said, "Federal reserve notes..." Didn't you mean "Federal
            Reserve Notes" because few people ever get to see any "Federal reserve
            notes"? The two are different things.

            We've proven that FRNs are NOT legal tender; now it is time to act like
            we know it! Actually, it's been time since 1978. I stopped using them
            in 1979 but I didn't know about their non-legal-tender status until a
            few years later. I just decided to boycott them on my own before I knew
            I could do so entirely legally. I use lots of rolls of quarters. If I
            was blind I'd never know them from the real thing!

            Today I eliminate a lot of money from my transactions, preferring
            straight trades. I have a lifetime supply of the things I trade in.
            Now I even trade for others who cannot imagine how to do it!

            Regards,

            FF
          • BOB GREGORY
            *The 1856 Bouvier s Law Dictionary devines tender in such a way that it is a noun, and does not mention it being used as a verb.* *TENDER, contracts,
            Message 5 of 7 , May 19, 2009
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              The 1856 Bouvier's Law Dictionary devines "tender" in such a way that it is a noun, and does not mention it being used as a verb.

              TENDER, contracts, pleadings. A tender is an offer to do or perform an act 

              which the party offering, is bound to perform to the party to whom the offer

              is made.

              2. A tender may be of money or of specific articles; these will be

              separately considered. Sec. 1. Of the lender of money. To make la valid

              tender the following requisites are necessary: 1. It must be made by a

              person capable of paying: for if it be made by a stranger without the

              consent of the debtor, it will be insufficient. Cro. Eliz. 48, 132; 2 M. &

              S. 86; Co. Lit. 206.



              West's Encyclopedia of Law defines "tender" thus:

              TENDER
              An offer of money; the act by which one individual
              offers someone who is holding a claim or demand
              against him or her the amount of money that the
              offeror regards and admits is due, in order to sat-
              isfy the claim or demand, in the absence of any
              contingency or stipulation attached to the offer.
              The two essential characteristics of tender
              are an unconditional offer to perform, together
              with manifested ability to do so, and the pro-
              duction of the subject matter of tender. The
              term is generally used in reference to an offer to
              pay money; however, it may properly be used in
              reference to an offer of other kinds of property.



              Lawyers.com provides this:

              Legal tender

              Definition - Noun
              : money that is legally valid for the payment of debts and that must be accepted for that purpose when offered



              On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Al Cintra-Leite <stonekutteral@...> wrote:
              Well, Yes, because a noun is a person , place , or thing , and anything can be a Thing , so in that sense an action , which are usually described by verbs , can be a thing , but tender in the sense of money was always  used as a verb until people started misusing it. I have a copy of the Oxford english dictionary , and in the one instance they claim it can be used as a noun, (as "legal tender" all of the illustrating sentences except one are actually using it as a verb , and the only sentence using as a noun I believe to be poor grammar , even if the makers of the Oxford Dictionary used it.... look closely at your examples and you will see they all relate to actions , which are usually described with verbs , although it is true that a noun is a person , place or thing... James Ewart discusses this point in his excellent book "Money" , although Dr. Edwin Viera doesn't mention that issue in his monumental two volume "Pieces of Eight" and Viera does use "Legal Tender " as a noun himself , but I think Ewart has a valid point about the Federal reserve bank taking the "A" off of the bills they print up... they used to say "this note is A Legal tender for all debts public and private " now they say "This note is Legal tender for all debts public and private"... if it made no difference then why did they change it? just to save ink? I think there is more to it than just saving ink... and a tender is an Offer , so a Federal reserve Note isn't actually a note , because a note needs four things , it needs a payor , a payee , a due date , and an amount , they used to say United States (the Payor).... Pay bearer (the Payee) on demand(the due Date) twenty dollars in gold(the amount)... now they don't have any of those elements , thus they are not a "Note" and are "Legal tender" that is , a contract forced on those who don't want to use it , as a debt tendered and refused is a debt paid at law, this is unfair to someone who is owed money and is offered Federal reserve notes instead , as there is no real money...... just some thoughts....


              On May 18, 2009, at 10:39 AM, BOB GREGORY wrote:


            • BOB GREGORY
              *I have attached an article about FRN s and Legal Tender.*
              Message 6 of 7 , May 19, 2009
              I have attached an article about FRN's and Legal Tender.

              On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Frog Farmer <frogfrmr@...> wrote:


              Al Cintra-Leite:

              > ... thus they are not a "Note" and are "Legal


              > tender" that is , a contract forced on those who don't want to use it
              > , as a debt tendered and refused is a debt paid at law, this is unfair
              > to someone who is owed money and is offered Federal reserve notes
              > instead , as there is no real money...... just some thoughts....

              Maybe they were "just thoughts"... I hope that's all they were, because
              I am convinced that FRNs are NOT "legal tender" at all, except in the
              same sense that ANYTHING is legal to tender (offer).

              .


            • dave
              In a free society anyone is allowed to tender payment to another in any form possible .that is accepted. For example: . I can tender you a pencil and
              Message 7 of 7 , May 19, 2009
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                In a free society anyone is allowed to tender payment to another in any form
                possible .that is accepted.



                For example:



                . I can tender you a pencil and claim it worth a nickel.

                . I can tender you one blue pencil for another red in color.

                . I can tender you a pencil and claim it worth 1000 ounces of gold.

                You see it is the ACCEPTANCE that determines the tendered worth. Now surely
                someone would claim the last example was "crazy"..but in a free society if
                someone VOLUNTARILY accepted the offer, the worth was established. By the
                way, "tender" is used in the verb-sense above.



                Let's go on.



                In a free society:

                . I can promise things to another.

                . I can tender you a NOTE and claim it worth whatever it says on its
                face.

                . I can thus tender PROMISSORY NOTES.

                You tender PROMISSORY NOTES all the time..they are called checks. You
                VOLUNTARILY offer the note as tendered payment and it's up to the recipient to voluntarily accept same.



                Per the Constitution government is granted power to coin money. No coin will
                tell you it's truth on its face for this truth is printed in the
                Constitution. It is implied that it can't print money. To date government
                doesn't claim to print money and its printed currency tells you same: Its
                LEGAL TENDER.not LAWFUL MONEY. It prints same on its face to make clear the
                distinction.



                So what you have in your pocket is a VOLUNTARY method of exchange of notes.
                Their worth is established by what you are willing to exchange them for.



                To give you the ILLUSION that government is allowed to PRINT MONEY, it
                turned the verb "tender" into the noun of same and added the adjective
                "legal" to give it an aroma of legitimacy. Next to fool a Chr-stian
                population into acceptance of this non-golden-based graven-image calf, it
                added the words "In G-d we Trust." [Look how far we've come: At least the
                Children of Israel worshipped gold and not paper.]



                Folks..the deviousness of this new Roman Republic can be traced to the
                person whose portrait is on the NUMBER ONE federal reserve note. Think how
                effectively George and his CONstitutional CONvention CONvinced people that
                they would be better off with an OWNERSHIP POSITION in government then to be
                declared separate from same. A masterful stroke of the pen ushered in the
                words "we the People" as OWNERS of an alleged debt called public and a mere
                POSTION in government called VOTING. In this manner they were able to
                accomplish what no Roman emperor managed to do: Convince people to worship
                paper as money and to insist on G-d's name on same. [Moderator/Bear: Or, what most people consider to be the Creator's Name.]



                Maybe they were "just thoughts"... I hope that's all they were, because
                I am convinced that FRNs are NOT "legal tender" at all, except in the
                same sense that ANYTHING is legal to tender (offer).

                You also said, "Federal reserve notes..." Didn't you mean "Federal
                Reserve Notes" because few people ever get to see any "Federal reserve
                notes"? The two are different things.
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