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questions concerning U.S. constitution

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  • Ed Siceloff
    To any of the constitutional experts on the group, I have a few questions: none are Socratic questions. I ve posted this to other groups, without an answer,
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 9, 2009
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      questions concerning U.S. constitution

      To any of the constitutional experts on the group, I have a few questions none are Socratic questions.  Ive posted this to other groups, without an answer, and, if Bear would post it here, I would greatly appreciate some answers.  My apology in advance since this does not relate court practice.  But, the courts under consideration dont seem to be founded by the Constitution for the United States of America.  Below, the said constitution says that the judiciary and Congress (which establishes inferior courts) are of the United States, which established the Constitution for the United States of America. 

      I’m following along in a booklet about the various meanings of United States, United States of America, etc., and reading the first 3 articles of said constitution I noticed (read the said Articles/Sections for complete text): 

        Art. 1; Sec. 1:  “All legislative Powers herein granted…..in a Congress of the United States….”

        Art. 2; Sec. 1:  “The executive Power shall vested in a President of the United States of America”

        Art. 3; Sec. 1   “The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,…”

      Anyone have a plausible explanation of why there is no mention of a President of the United States?  Why is there a difference in the wording of Art. 1 along with Art. 3, in setting up the legislature and the judiciary of the United States, and then divergence in the setting up of a President but of the United States of America?  If there is President of the United States of America, then why is there no legislature or judiciary for the United States of America? 

        And, one remaining:  The preamble says We the People of the United States..establish this Constitution for the United States of America.  Then why is the Congress and the judiciary created for the United States (which logically and historically precedes the United States of America) while only the office of President is created for the United States of America.  Are the Congress and the judiciary outside of the scope of the Constitution for the United States of America while the office of President is within the scope of it? 

      With absolutely no answers at all, I am kind of the opinion that the document is void for vagueness.

      Ed

    • BOB GREGORY
      *This sounds like a question that would be best addressed by Dr. Edwin Vieira. He is a recognized constitutional scholar*. *Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. holds four
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 9, 2009
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        This sounds like a question that would be best addressed by Dr. Edwin Vieira.  He is a recognized constitutional scholar.

        Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. holds four degrees from Harvard: A.B. (Harvard College), A.M. and Ph.D. (Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences), and J.D. (Harvard Law School), and has practiced Constitutional Law for more than thirty years. Dr. Vieira is one of the leading experts on the U.S. Constitution.

        He can be reached at:
        52 Stonegate Court
        Front Royal, VA 22630.


        ============================

        On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Ed Siceloff <siceloff@...> wrote:

        To any of the constitutional experts on the group, I have a few questions: ....

        I’m following along in a booklet about the various meanings of United States, United States of America, etc., and reading the first 3 articles of said constitution I noticed (read the said Articles/Sections for complete text): 

          Art. 1; Sec. 1:  “All legislative Powers herein granted…..in a Congress of the United States….”

          Art. 2; Sec. 1:  “The executive Power shall vested in a President of the United States of America”

          Art. 3; Sec. 1   “The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,…”

        Anyone have a plausible explanation of why there is no mention of a President of the United States?  .....

        With absolutely no answers at all, I am kind of the opinion that the document is void for vagueness.

        Ed


      • vze4bqdp@optonline.net
        ... The only explanation that is available insofar as I am concerned is that the phrases are used interchangeably. That is consistent with the rules of grammar
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 9, 2009
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          At  09-0309 07:31, you wrote:
          ... I’m following along in a booklet about the various meanings of United States, United States of America, etc., and reading the first 3 articles of said constitution I noticed (read the said Articles/Sections for complete text):

            Art. 1; Sec. 1: “All legislative Powers herein granted…..in a Congress of the United States….”
            Art. 2; Sec. 1:
          “The executive Power shall vested in a President of the United States of America”
            Art.
          3; Sec. 1  “The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,…”

          Anyone have a plausible explanation of why there is no mention of a President of the United States?  Why is there a difference in the wording of Art. 1 along with Art. 3, in setting up the legislature and the judiciary of the United States, and then divergence in the setting up of a President but of the United States of America? If there is President of the United States of America, then why is there no legislature or judiciary for the United States of America?

            And, one remaining: The preamble says We the People of the United States…..establish this Constitution for the United States of America.  Then why is the Congress and the judiciary created for the United States (which logically and historically precedes the United States of America) while only the office of President is created for the United States of America.  Are the Congress and the judiciary outside of the scope of the Constitution for the United States of America while the office of President is within the scope of it? 

          The only explanation that is available insofar as I am concerned is that the phrases are used interchangeably. That is consistent with the rules of grammar as well as legal theory, I believe, creating a problem only for those dependent upon creating some kind of dichotomy that will provide for competing definitions. I don't find such a complication particularly valuable -- quite the contrary. Should someone make a reasonable case for developing such distinctions, however, I'm ready to listen.
        • Don S.
          Ed, For the hundreds of times I read the Const., I never made the connection you have. I did question the Preamble wording US and USA. I never saw the Art. 1,
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 9, 2009
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            Ed,

            For the hundreds of times I read the Const.,
            I never made the connection you have.

            I did question the Preamble wording US and USA.

            I never saw the Art. 1, 2, 3 situation US v USA.

            It is as if the Congress/ Judiciary support
            directly the people of the united states, while the
            President acts for the People in concert.

            I don't believe though it has any reservations
            on how the Const. is to apply.

            It seems as if it were just awkwardly worded.

            Notice the word "right" is used only once in the
            main body of the Const.

            Good eyes........

            Don




            ====================================
            At 08:31 AM 3/9/09 -0400, you wrote:

            To any of the constitutionalexperts on the group, I have a few questions: none are Socratic questions. Ive posted this to other groups, without an answer, and, if Bear would post it here, I would greatly appreciate some answers. My apology in advance since this does not relate court practice. But, the courts under consideration dont seem to be founded by the Constitution for the United States of America. Below, the said constitution says that the judiciary and Congress (which establishes inferior courts) are of theIm following along in a booklet about the various meanings of United States, United States of America, etc., and reading the first 3 articles of said constitution I noticed (read the said Articles/Sections for complete text):

              Art. 1; Sec. 1: All legislative Powers herein granted&..in a Congress of the United States&.

              Art. 2; Sec. 1: The executive Power shall vested in a President of the United States of America

              Art. 3; Sec. 1  The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,&

            Anyone have a plausible explanation of why there is no mention of a President of the United States? Why is there a difference in the wording of Art. 1 along with Art. 3, in setting up the legislature and the judiciary of the United States, and then divergence in the setting up of a President but of the United States of America? If there is President of the United States of America, then why is there no legislature or judiciary for the United States of America?


            And, one remaining: The preamble says We the People of the United States&..establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Then why is the Congress and the judiciary created for the United States (which logically and historically precedes the United States of America) while only the office of President is created


            etc........


            Ed




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          • dave
            Re: Questions Concerning US CON stitution..Ed Rivera s the guy with the answers on this. Let me explain how he did it. First he had a degree in
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 9, 2009
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              Re: Questions Concerning US “CON”stitution….Ed Rivera’s the guy with the answers on this. Let me explain how he did it. First he had a degree in government….then he became a lawyer….practiced for 20 years or so. Took his mandate of “truth seeking” officer-of-the-court seriously. As he explains which I paraphrased, “I had an oath as an officer of the court. The stated function of all courts is truth seeking. I never stopped looking….and looking on behalf of clients…for truth. I found out the truth so well that I set a lot of people free. The IRS didn’t like it….the DOJ sought to disbar me for telling clients the truth…..the courts didn’t like it when I proved they had no authority over me.” Now later they stuck him in jail for a couple months “for show”….but we were able to mail him all the organic law and a good chunk of history. Ed used the 3 months as a sabbatical of study on the organic law…never missing a beat. He has a gift….the gift NOT to interpret beyond what the words actually say. Thus…it was only a matter of time till he discovered “more truth”.  Literally EVERYONE should read what he has to say…the guy’s amazing for his CLARITY of thought. www.edrivera.com

               

              From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vze4bqdp@...
              Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:17 PM
              To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] questions concerning U.S. constitution

               

              At  09-0309 07:31, you wrote:

              ... I’m following along in a booklet about the various meanings of United States, United States of America, etc., and reading the first 3 articles of said constitution I noticed (read the said Articles/Sections for complete text):

                Art. 1; Sec. 1: “All legislative Powers herein granted…..in a Congress of the United States….”
                Art. 2; Sec. 1: “The executive Power shall vested in
              a President of the United States of America”
                Art.
              3; Sec. 1  “The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,…”

              Anyone have a plausible explanation of why there is no mention of a President of the United States?  Why is there a difference in the wording of Art. 1 along with Art. 3, in setting up the legislature and the judiciary of the United States, and then divergence in the setting up of a President but of the United States of America? If there is President of the United States of America, then why is there no legislature or judiciary for the United States of America?

                And, one remaining: The preamble says We the People of the United States…..establish this Constitution for the United States of America.  Then why is the Congress and the judiciary created for the United States (which logically and historically precedes the United States of America) while only the office of President is created for the United States of America.  Are the Congress and the judiciary outside of the scope of the Constitution for the United States of America while the office of President is within the scope of it? 


              The only explanation that is available insofar as I am concerned is that the phrases are used interchangeably. That is consistent with the rules of grammar as well as legal theory, I believe, creating a problem only for those dependent upon creating some kind of dichotomy that will provide for competing definitions. I don't find such a complication particularly valuable -- quite the contrary. Should someone make a reasonable case for developing such distinctions, however, I'm ready to listen.

            • Jake
              Real simple answer to the questions - in the Constitution, United States of America refers to an  IT - a new nation which previously did not exist - the
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 10, 2009
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                Real simple answer to the questions - in the Constitution, "United States of America" refers to an "IT" - a new nation which previously did not exist - the term "United States" refers to "THEM" - the "several states".
                 
                Although the terms have been used interchangably for well over 100 years & certainly are today, they DO NOT mean the same thing.  And look @ the difference in wording in the 13th & 14th Amendments.
                 
                Study more - in the Declaration of Independence, the "u" in "united" is lower-case - an adjective describing States in a land called America which were united in a common cause - there was no such entity as the "United States of America" @ the time.  In the Constitution the "U" is capitalized because now "United" is part of a proper noun.

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