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Re: [tips_and_tricks] Queue for ff response - with attachment

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  • BernardLINY
    This is what I sent to the IRS when they came looking for my 1996 tax return. I haven t heard from them since. The last letter appears in the file first. You
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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      This is what I sent to the IRS when they came looking for my 1996 tax return. I haven't heard from them since. The last letter appears in the file first. You may want to read from the bottom up (look at the dates).
       
      Bernard.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Queue for ff response - with attachment

      Sorry the attachment was not with the first
      attempt to post.  I pushed the 'send' button to soon.

      Attached is a two page Word document
      response to the IRS in Kansas. 

      Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
      of the response, it will be appreciated.

      I need this in the mail Monday afternoon.

      jallen89@...
    • rhgusn
      * **I do not have a clue as to what queueing the response means, but here is a load of truth for you.** My impression is the the IRS will ignore and blow
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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        I do not have a clue as to what "queueing the response" means, but here is a load of truth for you.  My impression is the the IRS will ignore and blow off any such UCC crap since their letter is not directly a part of the legal process.  The purportedly legal process that the IRS follows is first to prepare on behalf of the "taxpayer" a "substitute for return" allegedly under the authority of 26 USC 6020(B).  They will then "audit" that return against any indications that the "taxpayer" received "income" in the form of "wages."  When a deficiency is identified, they send a Notice of Deficiency and then a series of notices (Request for Payment, 501, 503, 504).   One of these is considered a Notice and Demand for Payment.  The tax will allegedly be assessed with an assessment signed by a designated assessment officer.  A certified mail notice of assessment is sent.  Ninety days are allowed to respond and pay the tax.  Then  Letter 1058  gives notice of intent to levy and the right to request a Collection Due Process Hearing.  If the "taxpayer" requests one within the proper time period and holding his mouth right, he will be told that the hearing will be by telephone.  If he requests an in person hearing, the IRS will demand to know what substantive arguments he intends to bring up.  If they don't like any of the proposed arguments, they will declare them to be "frivolous" and deny the in person hearing.  The telephone hearing will be a joke,  Then the "taxpayer can file a petition with the Tax Court.  The Tax Court will declare his arguments "frivolous" and support the decision of the IRS Appeals Office which held the Collection Due Process Hearing. The Tax Court has not basic jurisdiction over anyone, but the system is structured so that the "taxpayer" must petition the court for a hearing, thus granting it jurisdiction.  If you are stupid enough and have enough money, you can appeal Tax Court decisions (memoranda) to a Federal District Court, but it is not worth the bother.  The entire system is rigged strongly against you.  The few people charged criminally who "win" do so in jury trials in which they just happen to have a jury that is not fully contaminated by the general propaganda and specific misleading of the prosecutors and the judges.  And then, guess what?  Jury decisions do not create precedent, so each jury trial is a stand-alone situation that does not help anyone else.. 

        The IRS does not care about anything you may say or write to their offices.  More often than not they will not respond in any way, though they will keep everything you send.  They do not care that the rules do not allow them to do things the way they do.  They do not care that only substantive regulations have the force and effect of law.  They apply inapplicable administrative regulations as if they are the law. There are a lot of very correct ways to point out the law, Supreme Court rulings and the misapplications that the IRS makes, but they do not care.  You will not win with anything someone has told you is a "magic bullet."  They are criminals who have the power of the government and of the courts, and also they have guns.

        The only way that is ever likely to change things is for millions of people to decide that they have had enough of the illegal crap and just QUIT reporting anything, filing anything, sending any letters or paying anything.  One or even fifty people doing that will just bring them a heap of trouble.  But if millions do it, the IRS will not be able to cope.  If people see those millions of people NOT FILING then they will join them.  Once, say, thirty million have quit, the system will likely just fail, and Congress will have to go back to the drawing board.  Why is this not happening?  Everyone is scared crapless of the IRS and is afraid to stop filing unless they know that huge numbers are in it with them. 

        I respect the people in the Lawmen and similar movements.  I believe in learning and using the law properly.  I agree to the idea of learning proper court procedure and how to draft well-written pleadings and motions.  But I know this:  not everyone is smart enough or has enough time, or has enough money to go through that kind of process.  And even those who do generally end up losing to a corrupt system.  We need to follow a process that EVERYONE can do.  Ghandi and Martin Luther King did not hold endless classes and training sessions to teach thousands of followers the details and nuances of the law and regulations or how to represent themselves in court.  They convinced their followers that they were being wronged and mistreated and that they should stand up against the wrongdoers through NON-VIOLENT CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. 

        if ours is supposed to be a government of the people, then we need to make it so.  In a republic, the people establish a supreme law and set up a government to be operated in accordance with that law.  The government of the United States has long since quit following the supreme law and decided to do whatever it can get away with.  Trying to do battle with such a government within a set of systems it has created to serve its own ends is futile.  Realize this and figure out something else to do.



        ==========================

        On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:34 AM, john allen <jallen89@...> wrote:

        Sorry the attachment was not with the first
        attempt to post.  I pushed the 'send' button to soon.

        Attached is a two page Word document
        response to the IRS in Kansas. 

        Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
        of the response, it will be appreciated.

        I need this in the mail Monday afternoon.

        jallen89@...



        It's the same Hotmail®. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now.

      • Jim Stiner
        ... I sent you an email telling you that I would not submit that letter. I would send a notice and demand. Jim
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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          > Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
          > of the response, it will be appreciated.

          I sent you an email telling you that I would not submit that letter.

          I would send a notice and demand.

          Jim
        • gary
          Without getting into the rest of it, the IRS (having its own collection statutes and regulations) is exempt from the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and I
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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            Without getting into the rest of it, the IRS (having its own collection statutes and regulations) is exempt from the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and I would guess from having anything to do with the Truth in Lending statutes.
             
            It would be interesting if the IRS ever starts using outside collection agencies (I believe there was a plan to do that) as those agencies WOULD be subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
             
            Gary
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:34 AM
            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Queue for ff response - with attachment

            Sorry the attachment was not with the first
            attempt to post.  I pushed the 'send' button to soon.

            Attached is a two page Word document
            response to the IRS in Kansas. 

            Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
            of the response, it will be appreciated.

            I need this in the mail Monday afternoon.

            jallen89@hotmail. com



            It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now.



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          • Frog Farmer
            ... I wasn t going to post on this, but since you asked, I wonder the same. Also, I don t try to fix someone s homework the night before class. My first
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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              > > Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
              > > of the response, it will be appreciated.
              >
              > Maybe it is just me, but do you have any
              > idea about what it is you are doing?

              I wasn't going to post on this, but since you asked, I wonder the same.
              Also, I don't try to fix someone's homework the night before class. My
              first impression was that there were too many typos and misspellings,
              and I charge for doing that kind of document repair.

              I don't think I'd ever write and send such a thing. I mean, after the
              fall of the Soviet Union, wasn't it entirely possible to avoid the
              Commissar?

              The writing tells me a lot of assumptions are being made, ones I could
              not bring myself to make. Did the author read Larken Rose's book?

              Does the author know of and understand the Kahre case? It's way too
              much for me to explain now. I'm in a different reality and have been
              for years. I don't grant anyone legitimacy when they claim special
              powers they say I don't have. If they can prove they have it, that
              might be different, but so far, it's all been fraud. And here don't we
              have a response to an unsigned piece of paper? Nobody to address, just
              a form for confession.

              > There is no way of knowing if you have signed
              > any form obligating you to the IRS. There is
              > no way of knowing what you are specifically
              > addressing, other than everything but the
              > proverbial kitchen sink.
              >
              > You fail to state if you are a taxpayer.

              Must one state it if one acts as one?

              > Less is more, but there needs to be clarity,
              > more or less.

              And that was way too much for me.

              Sorry.

              Regards,

              FF
            • Q
              ... That s pretty much my take also. What you are writing is gobbledegook and legally meaningless. Most obvious is that you fail to state a claim for which
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 5, 2009
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                --- In tips_and_tricks@ yahoogroups. com, john allen <jallen89@.. .>
                wrote:

                >>
                >> Anyone is invited to queue the entirety
                >> of the response, it will be appreciated.
                >>

                >Maybe it is just me, but do you have any
                >idea about what it is you are doing?

                That's pretty much my take also. What you are writing is gobbledegook and legally meaningless. Most obvious is that you fail to state a claim for which relief can be granted. The best I can decipher is that "(SS# WITH DASHES) dba (FICTION PARTYS NAME)" is some reference to a "strawman", which is a dead end street and will get you nowhere. Either get a real lawyer to write a proper notice, making all required legal points, or send nothing. Sending this mess will likely put you in a worse legal position than you are in now, conclusively placing you into the "Tax Protestor" file. [Moderator/Bear: I think Philo means the modern day equivalent of tax protestor; tax defier.]You need to learn more or get competent help. I say this with concern for your well-being, not to ridicule or criticize you. You asked for opinions, and you are getting them, be wise enough to do the right thing.
                Q
                (not a lawyer, just my opinion, your mileage may vary)
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