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Re: When GMAC goes bankrupt, Chapter 11 -- can a note holder recover his title?

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  • soc_anon_01
    You have to look closely at the terms of your NOTE not the MORTGAGE. The MORTGAGE is no more than a trust and only a trust. The question is, Where did
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 27, 2008
      You have to look closely at the terms of your "NOTE" not the "MORTGAGE."

      The "MORTGAGE" is no more than a trust and only a trust.

      The question is, Where did the bank or alleged lender sign the
      MORTGAGE? Who is the GRANTOR? Who is the BENEFICIARY?

      You and any other signers as the GRANTOR(s) appointed the trustee and
      therefore you can change the trustee. You can appoint a NON-BANK
      trustee and force the "UNALTERED NOTE" to be produced and NOT A COPY!

      Research it from that point and see if it don't look interesting.

      Is this the real reason for the banking collapse? I think so.

      soc_anon_01
      (Socialism Anonymous)

      --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, falconfield@... wrote:

      > Chapter 11 is a reorganization. The company and the assests do not
      dissapear. The mortgage on a property does not get wiped out and the
      prommissary note is still enforcable and you are still required to pay
      on your mortgage.

      > The asset may be sold to another mortgage banking firm and you will
      be directed to send your monthly payment to another lock box with
      another name on the check.

      > I suppose if you are in foreclosure and you wanted to have the
      moving party prove they have standing to foreclose, that is another
      issue altogether.

      > If you are thinking the Chapter 11 filing gets you off the hook for
      the monthly payment and the repayment of the principle I would be
      careful.
    • falconfield@comcast.net
      Actually you have to look at both documents. The note is the document that tells you what type of loan you have and the terms of the loan. The mortgage  
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 29, 2008

        Actually you have to look at both documents. The "note" is the document that tells you what type of "loan" you have and the terms of the loan. The "mortgage"  is the document that "pledges" the collateral, the real estate, and this document tells you what the terms and conditions are, this is the security document.

         

        A "mortgage deed" is sometimes called a "deed of trust" and in not to be confused with a "real estate trust". They are not the same thing.

         

        There is no "trustee" and benefificiary" with a mortgage.  You agree to give the lender certain rights that can be exercised if you breach your mortgage by not adhering to the terms of your "note"

         

        A trust is a right of property held by one for the benefit of another. A "mortgage" is an instrument used to encumber land/buildings (real estate) to secure a debt.   In most states the title is still held by the homeowner and not the mortgage banker. 

         

        The idea that you can get out of paying the note secured by a mortgage becasue the mortgage banker is in Chapter 11 seems to have no basis in reality.  GMAC runs into financial trouble and you want to weasel out of making your payments just doesn't sit right with me.

         

        Making sure a mortgage banker is following the law and the terms in the mortgage and note when they are foreclosing on a homeowner that is in breach is another thing altogether.

         

        The financial collapse has been brought about by several things. The greed of those in the business. Inflating appraisals, falsifying documents that relate to income of borrowers and the peoples willingness to contract debt based on unrealistic expectations of the market place. Did everyone real believe real estate would appreciate forever? Did we really believe that our incomes would rise at a rate that would absorb the reset interest rate on our ARMS? 

         

         

         

         


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "soc_anon_01" <snowman@...>
        To: "tips and tricks" <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:12:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: When GMAC goes bankrupt, Chapter 11 -- can a note holder recover his title?

        .

         

         You have to look closely at the terms of your "NOTE" not the "MORTGAGE."

        The "MORTGAGE" is no more than a trust and only a trust.

        The question is, Where did the bank or alleged lender sign the
        MORTGAGE? Who is the GRANTOR? Who is the BENEFICIARY?

        You and any other signers as the GRANTOR(s) appointed the trustee and
        therefore you can change the trustee. You can appoint a NON-BANK
        trustee and force the "UNALTERED NOTE" to be produced and NOT A COPY!

        Research it from that point and see if it don't look interesting.

        Is this the real reason for the banking collapse? I think so.

      • mn_chicago
        ... Let s see, a lender takes the promissory note, signed by a borrower, and unlawfully converts that signed note into a negotiable instrument, sells it to
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 31, 2008
          --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, falconfield@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > The idea that you can get out of paying the note secured by a
          > mortgage becasue the mortgage banker is in Chapter 11 seems to
          > have no basis in reality.  GMAC runs into financial trouble and
          > you want to weasel out of making your payments just doesn't sit
          > right with me.

          Let's see, a "lender" takes the promissory note,
          signed by a borrower, and unlawfully converts
          that signed note into a negotiable instrument,
          sells it to raise the funds needed to fund the
          borrower's own loan, and charges interest for
          the borrower to borrow his/her own funds.

          What does the "lender" give for consideration?

          Zip, nada, zilch....a computerzied blip into an
          account created to facilitate this fraud...

          ...and someone you deem trying to "weasel" out of
          a fradulent transaction doesn't sit well with you?

          It must please you to no end to sit on a judgment
          fence and act as the arbiter to determine at
          whom you point your judgmental finger...three of
          which are pointing back at you, as it were.
        • falconfield@comcast.net
          I tried to contact mn_chicago off list. He has posted 2 times since I emailed him privately. I will assume do to the possibility of security software my emails
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 7, 2009

            I tried to contact mn_chicago off list. He has posted 2 times since I emailed him privately. I will assume do to the possibility of security software my emails never made it to his inbox.

             

             

            I wanted to  see how mn_chicago would explain how a lender "unlawfully" converts promissory note into a negotiable instrument.  By definition a promissory note is a negotiable instrument.

             

            I do not believe that a mortgage banker would originate or buy a mortgage/note if they could not sell it to someone else.

             

            Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac  were created to purchase mortgages from mortgage bankers so the mortgage bankers could originate more mortgages. The originators make money from the fees and the holds of the mortgage make money off of the interest payments.

             

            Consideration is : Something of value exchanged between the parties to a contract. It may consist of goods, services or promises

             

            The seller brings the real estate, the buyer brings his labor in the form of a down payment and his pledge of future labor to amortize the promissory note and he also pledges the title to the real estate. The mortgage banker provides a service to facilitate the transfer of property between 2 people.  The mortgage banker did not have to bring any "money" to the deal it was already there. 

             

            In other words , if I owned a property free and clear of any mortgages and you wanted to buy it and we agreed on a down payment. you could either ask a mortgage broker to facilitate the deal or I could agree to accept your promise to pay me over time. I would make sure I had the right to sell that promise to a third party at anytime over the life of our agreement.

             

            Since most people do not own their property free and clear  and most people do not have enough of their labor converted into "money"   there is a need for a third party to facilitate the transfer of property. In this case the property is real property (the seller) and past labor converted into a down payment and future labor converted into a promissory note and a pledge of the real property by the buyer to the tihd party.  

             

            So you are right that the mortgage banker does not bring anything in the way of "money" into the deal but I do not agree with you that it is a fraudulent transaction. 

             

             

             

             

             

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "mn_chicago" <mn_chicago@...>
            To: "tips and tricks" <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:22:17 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
            Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: When GMAC goes bankrupt, Chapter 11 -- can a note holder recover his title?

            .

            mn_chicago wrote:

             



            Let's see, a "lender" takes the promissory note,
            signed by a borrower, and unlawfully converts
            that signed note into a negotiable instrument,
            sells it to raise the funds needed to fund the
            borrower's own loan, and charges interest for
            the borrower to borrow his/her own funds.

            What does the "lender" give for consideration?

            Zip, nada, zilch....a computerzied blip into an
            account created to facilitate this fraud...

            ...and someone you deem trying to "weasel" out of
            a fradulent transaction doesn't sit well with you?

            It must please you to no end to sit on a judgment
            fence and act as the arbiter to determine at
            whom you point your judgmental finger...three of
            which are pointing back at you, as it were.

          • mn_chicago
            ... Your e-mails to me were received and ignored. ... The gist of your e-mail was to have me prove to you what I had stated. I owe you no such obligation. ...
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 8, 2009
              --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, falconfield@... wrote:

              > I tried to contact mn_chicago off list. He has posted 2 times
              > since I emailed him privately. I will assume do to the possibility
              > of security software my emails never made it to his inbox.
              >

              Your e-mails to me were received and ignored.


              > I wanted to  see how mn_chicago would explain how a
              > lender "unlawfully" converts promissory note into a negotiable
              > instrument.  By definition a promissory note is a negotiable
              > instrument.
              >

              The gist of your e-mail was to have me prove to you what
              I had stated. I owe you no such obligation.


              > I do not believe that a mortgage banker would originate or buy
              > a mortgage/note if they could not sell it to someone else.
              >

              You maintain a litany of beliefs that so not reconcile with
              reality. However, it is not up to me to rush in and fill the
              vacuum of that which you are unaware and have been content to
              accept as reality, and then cast a judgmental light in the
              direction of those you think fail to see what little you know.

              Frankly, I just don't care for your attitude, just like
              some people do not sit well with you, as you already asserted.

              Move on.
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