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Re: Eric, WhoRU makes my points on US Citizenship

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  • JcP
    1.. Under the provisions set forth as a result of Public Agencies Opposed to Social Security Entrapment v. Heckler, 613 F Supp 558 (D.C. Cal 1985), at page
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 12, 2008
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      1. Under the provisions set forth as a result of Public Agencies Opposed to Social Security Entrapment v. Heckler, 613 F Supp 558 (D.C. Cal 1985), at page 575, “The Secretary of Health and Human Services is hereby ORDERED to accept the notifications of withdrawal properly tendered to her.”
      2. Process of removal from the Social Security Program pursuant to 20 CFR Chapter III, Section 404.1905.
      3. Treasury Regulation 301.6109-1(d) allows one to withdraw from this activity and states specifically:  “Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.” 

        Paragraph (b) is for those persons desiring to file a statement or return or those persons who are (under paragraph (a) engaged in a trade or business within theUnited States .

      4. In further review of the Compilation of the Social Security Laws, 98th Congress, 2nd Session, Committee Print through 1984, pages 397 and 398 will fully detail the facts concerning the construction of the terms “State” and “United States” in subparagraphs (A) contained prima facia evidence that the Social Security Act of the 74th Congress, Session 1, August 14, 1935, as recorded in Chapter 531 of the United States Statutes as Large, was and is intended to operate “within the Federal United States ONLY” (per definition).

      5. The federal courts have ruled that private sector solicitors may not obtain social security numbers until they comport their solicitations to comply with disclosure requirements of the Privacy Act, including informing customers of the voluntary nature of such disclosure, the source of authority for requesting such disclosure, and possible uses to which disclosed numbers might be put.

        Yeager v. Hackensack Water Co., 615 F.Supp.1087 (1985).
    • Frog Farmer
      ... Me too! ... There is more than one system . And more than one way to skin a cat, some more intricately developed than others. ... This is all true for me
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 13, 2008
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        > Dear Sir:
        >
        > I have gotten rid of a social number that had been
        > "assigned" to me AND MUCH MORE.

        Me too!

        > Contact LB Bork.

        > After completing the process he has intricately
        > developed, I am no longer in the system.

        There is more than one "system". And more than one way to skin a cat,
        some more intricately developed than others.

        > To back this
        > statement up, after completing the process, I removed
        > the state issued plates on my car and put on my own
        > private vanity plates. I dealt with a Illinois State
        > Trooper and gave her my paperwork. She did not issue
        > a ticket to me. (I had a busted fuel line on Hwy
        > 57?). At 2:00am downtown Milwaukee a radar detector
        > in the car went off. ONE car was behind me, NO ONE
        > ELSE AROUND. The detector quit beeping. I looked
        > behind me to see the car heading for an exit ramp. I
        > had been through Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri,
        > Arkansas, Iowa and Kansas.

        This is all true for me as well, but I never equated it to having
        anything to do with having any number. That issue never came up for me.
        I do not see the link between the two propositions. What do they have
        to do with each other?

        > This is just the START.
        >
        > LB is the most thorough, knowledgeable, and honorable
        > person dealing with correcting one's position I have
        > spoken to. Do with this what you will.

        "Dealing"? I wonder how LB is capable of determining anyone else's
        "position" when most people are not capable of articulating their own.

        And how does he prevent people from "uncorrecting" their positions,
        since they never understood it before meeting LB? How do they proceed
        after they leave LB's guidance? Most cases I've seen, "freed slaves"
        often return to the slave quarters for food and shelter, after a very
        short time, by making ink impressions on new pieces of paper offered to
        them for that purpose.
      • gary
        None of these has anything to do with an individual human withdrawing from the SS system by getting rid of the SSN assigned to them and having the SS account
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 13, 2008
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          None of these has anything to do with an individual human withdrawing from
          the SS system by getting rid of the SSN assigned to them and having the SS
          account with their name and that number expunged from the SSA.

          These are about agreements between governments, state employees being
          withdrawn from the social security PAYMENT system (they still have their
          SSNs).

          I don't see anything in 301.6109-1(d) that states anyone can withdraw from
          SS. There is something that says an acceptance agent can terminate his
          agreement, but that has nothing to do with an individual withdrawing from
          SS.

          Gary

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: JcP
          To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:07 PM
          Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Eric, WhoRU makes my points on US Citizenship


          Under the provisions set forth as a result of Public Agencies Opposed to
          Social Security Entrapment v. Heckler, 613 F Supp 558 (D.C. Cal 1985), at
          page 575, "The Secretary of Health and Human Services is hereby ORDERED to
          accept the notifications of withdrawal properly tendered to her."
          Process of removal from the Social Security Program pursuant to 20 CFR
          Chapter III, Section 404.1905.
          Treasury Regulation 301.6109-1(d) allows one to withdraw from this activity
          and states specifically: "Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish
          to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall
          nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish
          such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section."
        • dwissel
          Think of SSN like LLoyd s of London. Someone applies for insurance in America to insure their hands cause they are a famous piano player. LLoyd;s writes the
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 14, 2008
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            Think of SSN like LLoyd's of London. Someone applies for insurance in America to insure their hands cause they are a famous piano player. LLoyd;s writes the policy for the far away land called America. Now because the name was John Smith and there are too many John Smith's the company ASSIGNS a number. The number is ALWAYS stuck on the file folder and application. Let's say you cancel your insurance or simply haven't reached the "vested" amount to automatically guarantee a payout. Lloyd;'s says "Fine...cancelled....or fine...they stopped paying" But they keep the application, the name and number AND the file. How do they know you won't pay them again and want their services?

            The bottom line is LLoyd's has the number in some far away file cabinet on a territory you care little about....kinda like SSA does on the island of the District of Criminals.



            None of these has anything to do with an individual human withdrawing from
            the SS system by getting rid of the SSN assigned to them and having the SS
            account with their name and that number expunged from the SSA.

            These are about agreements between governments, state employees being
            withdrawn from the social security PAYMENT system (they still have their
            SSNs).
          • gary
            The analogy is not quite accurate. When you contract with LLoyd s for the insurance they issue a policy (insurance contract) and a number is assigned to that
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 14, 2008
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              The analogy is not quite accurate. When you contract with LLoyd's for the
              insurance they issue a policy (insurance contract) and a number is assigned
              to that POLICY, not your name. If you get another policy from them, it will
              have a different policy number. When you stop paying LLoyd's, they will
              terminate your policy and mark it "terminated for non-payment", if you
              cancel, they will mark the file "cancelled by insured"? Yes, they will
              probably keep it for their records but if you want the policy again, you
              will have to make application for it and a new policy will be issued and a
              new number will be assigned. You will not be allowed to just start up the
              old policy with the old number.

              The biggest difference is that with SS you cannot cancel it (that is what we
              are discussing, can you cancel the SS contract and have a check on that
              number say something like "cancelled by request"), the policy stays active
              and in force at all times. You may choose not to apply for benefits, but
              the SSA expects payments whenever you are paid unless payment to you is
              exempt (such as state employees).

              Gary

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: dwissel
              To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:51 AM
              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Eric, WhoRU makes my points on US Citizenship


              Think of SSN like LLoyd's of London. Someone applies for insurance in
              America to insure their hands cause they are a famous piano player. LLoyd;s
              writes the policy for the far away land called America. Now because the name
              was John Smith and there are too many John Smith's the company ASSIGNS a
              number. The number is ALWAYS stuck on the file folder and application. Let's
              say you cancel your insurance or simply haven't reached the "vested" amount
              to automatically guarantee a payout. Lloyd;'s says "Fine...cancelled....or
              fine...they stopped paying" But they keep the application, the name and
              number AND the file. How do they know you won't pay them again and want
              their services?

              The bottom line is LLoyd's has the number in some far away file cabinet on a
              territory you care little about....kinda like SSA does on the island of the
              District of Criminals.
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