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Re: [tips_and_tricks] any advice on credit issue

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  • bobert111@juno.com
    First and most importantly there must be a proper execution of a Summons. If you or your son were not served then there is FRAUD on the court. You need to
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 19, 2008
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      First and most importantly there must be a proper execution of a Summons. If you or your son were not served then there is FRAUD on the court. You need to check and make sure your son was not served and check the file to see if you were alleged to have been served. You and or your son have to sign a Summons Notice. You may contact me off line, citizenrfr@.... I am not a attorney and I am not or do not give legal advise.

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    • Edward Wheeler
      This will get you started . I ll look for the other site were you can void the judgment.  ED   How Debt Collectors Work At any given moment, there is a
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 19, 2008
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        This will get you started . I'll look for the other site were you can void the judgment.  ED

         

        How Debt Collectors Work

        "At any given moment, there is a sort of all pervading orthodoxy, a general tacit agreement not to discuss large and uncomfortable facts... Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness." -George Orwell

        Haven’t you ever wondered WHY a lending institution which has large office spaces (multiple offices/divisions,) a sea of accountants, auditors, lawyers, and other professionals on staff, would turn the alleged account over to a smaller (in many ways, miniscule in comparison) entity? Are they not equipped to deal with such matters as collecting on their own, legitimate, real obligations?

        When they do decide to write-off/charge-off the account, they take a very favorable tax credit, (based not only on the alleged transfers for the goods and services, but also the interest and fees accrued in the process) and are able to release the appearance of losses on FUTURE quarterly reports on the books by no longer showing an outstanding liability. On top of those incentives, they then sell the collection rights (Rights of Collection) to a third-party debt collector for PENNIES on the dollar. The real numbers would be about 10-20 cents on average.

        Enter the Debt Collector
        After the account is turned over to a third party debt collector, there are many different strategies that are employed (mostly tuned in to target demographics that pinpoint specific class, racial, cultural, or ethnic weakness that can be exploited) to begin the wealth extraction process. This has been refined to an art form.

        In almost all cases, initial contact is attempted by telephone; this is to begin by exploiting the most common weakness your kindness.

        This is when the debt collector tries to get you on the phone and have you voluntarily enter into agreement (a NEW contract that does NOT exist - yet).

        When one picks up a telephone and says, "Hello", an invitation for the other party (the one calling) to speak is given. If the other party is a debt collector, the phrase, "Hello, can I speak to (insert name here)?" is usually given in reply. This is a critical moment, for if the recipient of this call is not aware of the implications, they may be open to {they may open the door to} liabilities/obligations that they are not aware of. The best way to respond is to say "I am sorry, but I do NOT conduct business over the telephone. If you have a matter that needs my attention, please put it in writing and send it to me. Thank you” Then HANG-UP the phone!

        Think about it for a moment. If you have NEVER spoken, written, or affixed your signature to ANY agreement with this third party you do not have ANY obligation to talk to them. Do you understand that? You have the right to do business with anyone you want to, and you do NOT have to surrender and conduct business with those you do NOT approve of. In fact there is no law, code, or statute that can make you enter into any agreement that you do not consent to. This is even more applicable to giving them ANY personal information, confirmation that YOU are the "name" (this also plays a very large role that will be discussed later) they say when initially calling, admitting to any account information or status, etc. If you ever have the misf-rtune of dealing with one of these people and get into a panic or freeze JUST HANG-UP!

        These debt collectors are ruthless at trying to attach you to the alleged debt that they have a vested interest in getting you to pay. If they are unable to make contact via phone, they will try you at your place of employment. This is done with the intention of accelerating the embarrassment/intimidation and teardown operation in order for you to be conditioned to enter the contract.

        This is where most people surrender and make contact with the collector. When this contact is made, or an offer is accepted (like reduced balance or rate of usury/interest, the alleged debt it becomes a REAL debt and obligation.

        A short recap is given below.

        1. An individual calls your home/business and asks for you, the moment you enter into a conversation, answer their questions, or give ANY information, you are agreeing to conduct business with them and are unwittingly adding validity to their claim.

        2. You have no prior obligation, contract, or reason to communicate with this party in any way. (Do so at your own risk.)

        3. If ANY communication or other correspondence is established, a NEW agreement/contract is initiated.

        4. One moment you are free, the next moment you are under an obligation.

        The question of ethical conduct arises with a simple question: "Were you fully aware of your options?" If the answer is no, you were swindled/cheated/abused.

        If the debt collector is unable to make contact via telephone within a week or two (sometimes more if they have the wrong demographic/personal data) they will often send “The Letter” to you in an attempt to use the current law/system to FORCE you into an obligation. How the matter is handled from here is critical; the implications are very serious.

        If you ever receive one of these “Letters”, it can be identified by the original alleged creditor being mentioned (attempt to gain credibility), and the alleged account number and possibly other trivial data are included. This is an attempt to link your former (now WRITTEN OFF) obligation, with a NEW ONE that does not yet fully exist.

        The single most important thing that the letter will contain is the "mini-Miranda" for debt collectors. They must by law (the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and others) tell you the following:

        1. That this is an attempt to collect a debt, and any information will be used for that purpose.
        2. That the communication is from a debt collector.
        3. That you have 30 days (after receipt) to notify their office that you "dispute the validity" of the debt, or any part/portion of it.
        4. That if such dispute, demand for validation, or request for information on the original creditor (alleged) is not made the debt will be considered VALID.
        5. When demanded/requested in writing (within 30 days) the verification, or a copy of a judgment, will be provided.
        6. That the name and address of the original creditor will be given, if the name is different than the current creditor.

        This warning is usually found at the bottom or on the back of the letter, and is sometimes in very tiny print or a light shade of gray to discourage recognition.

        This six (6)-item list (non-inclusive) is the beginning of the end for the debt collector, and those debt collectors are praying that you never understand their relevance or TRUE meanings.

        This is just a quick look, not by any means a full and detailed explanation.

        Let us take another look at these items.

        1. "That this is an ATTEMPT to collect a debt, and any information will be used for that purpose.”

        TRANSLATION: You don’t know us, or have ANY business established with us, or owe us anything, but we are trying to extract money from you. Now that you have been warned in advance, we will employ every trick we are aware of to obtain your money and diminish your life.

        NOTE: The part that says, "That this is an ATTEMPT to collect a debt", is what establishes the sender of the communication as not YET having a valid claim, and is an indirect admission that there is no bona fide evidence. The original debt was written off/charged-off, and these collectors want to bring this non existent debt back to life so they can make a 100 - 800% return on their money. They have the right to try, and you have the right not to consent to it.

        NOTE: The part that says, "any information will be used for that purpose", is VERY real. ANY contact, conversation, reply, acknowledgement, or communication will be recorded or transcribed to be used against you. This is the ONLY hope the debt collector has at building a case against you in the event of future litigation. The matter of having NOTHING to do/say with these people can NOT be stressed enough; without your voluntary compliance/consent they will have a very difficult time having their way with you. They will try anyway.

        2. "This communication is from a debt collector."

        TRANSLATION: This communication is our desperate attempt to get you to believe you owe us something. Because of our reputation for ruthlessness and outright fraud, deceit, intimidation, stalking, and harassment, laws were passed to protect you from our unscrupulous practices. The "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act" (hereinafter: FDCPA) is one such law, and it makes us declare that we are "debt collectors." Otherwise we would NEVER admit anything to you. This gives you the opportunity to hold us to the FDCPA (only applicable to debt collectors) that will shield you from just about ANYTHING that we might try; if you know about it that is.

        NOTE: This is also an obvious way of telling the recipient that the communication is NOT from the original alleged creditor. If you recall, the debt has been written-off/charged off/revoked by the original alleged creditor. The debt no longer exists.

        NOTE: If the debt collector succeeded in collecting, the original alleged creditor still has it as written off for tax and other benefits. In essence the debt would double, or be claimed twice.

        3. "That you have 30 days to notify their office that you dispute the validity of the debt, or any part/portion of it."

        TRANSLATION: If we send you a letter accusing you of owing a debt, you have 30 days to dispute its validity; this is an effort to appear as if we are conducting ourselves decently and giving you a chance. The truth is that if we had our way there would be NO time allowable for you to exert your rights whatsoever.

        NOTE: This is why the telephone calls from debt collectors are so legendarily ruthless. They know that there is a very small window of opportunity for you to eliminate their entire position, and they will try EVERY trick in the book to keep you scared, intimidated, and flat on your feet so that you have little to no time available for rational thought and reflection about your rights. They also know that instinctively you will be polite and generally non-combative; if they can keep you on your heels (defensive posture) there is less time available for rational strategy to defeat them. This is a clever strategy, but it is easily defeated/circumvented when you understand what is happening.

        4. "That if such dispute, demand for validation, or request for information on the original creditor (alleged) is not made the debt will be considered VALID."

        TRANSLATION: The ONLY reason you are being told this is because we HAVE TO tell you. You have no agreement/contract with us in any way, shape, or form. What we were able to achieve by spending BILLIONS on lobbyists is the fact that one of the most important rights you have is NOT included in this warning: "If you do indeed demand Verification, we MUST STOP ALL COLLECTION ATTEMPTS until such verification has been provided." Another thing that you will not be told is that it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE for us to verify ANY of our alleged claims, but we feel confident that you have NO IDEA how to use it against us.

        NOTE: A matter must be expressed in order to be resolved. If you do not express your disagreement with the allegation/charge, you are in fact allowing it to stand uncontested, adding to its validity. If more than 30 days were to transpire without the collector being notified of the request/dispute, it becomes a VALID one in the eyes of the court.

        NOTE: "information on the original creditor" may include an answer to a simple question like: "WHO is this alleged creditor, and who is the one who will swear that the information is true, complete and certain?"

        5. "When demanded/requested in writing (within 30 days) the verification, or a copy of a judgment, will be provided."

        TRANSLATION: PLEASE DONT CALL OUR BLUFF; pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. For us to appear as legitimate recipients of an obligation (standing in receivership), we must also appear to be willing to defend our legitimate claim. If you ask us in writing (written communication) and can show proof of service by using an Affidavit of Mailing, and by sending the article/communication to the debt collector via Certified/Registered mail (Return Receipt Requested, Restricted Delivery, with the article number inserted directly into the communication.) you have effectively "Served the article upon us" and we MUST follow very strict procedures to avoid catastrophic losses of freedom and f-rtune. Once this process begins, we are practically doomed to defeat.

        NOTE: This has to be said for appearances. If you ask for proof or facts, they MUST be provided or the claim against you cannot stand, and must be rescinded/removed/dropped.

        6. "That the name and address of the original creditor will be given, if the name is different than the current creditor."

        TRANSLATION: This is our industry admitting to running our operations in a similar fashion as Enron; we play a game of three-card monte with the originator of the alleged funds. If you do not follow procedures properly, and accidentally request validation or a pay-off balance from the wrong party, we can try to wear you out through attrition and frustration.

        NOTE: If one were eager to tender payment in full, the originator of the alleged debt must provide full disclosure (if requested in writing) of facts so as not to impede or delay such payment/tender. This might sound trite, but if the alleged creditor was adding fees and interest to the balance in question, delays could be quite costly for the alleged debtor. That is why the FDCPA had this line added to the warning.
        This mini-Miranda warning originated from the abuse and deception/theft that was going on within the collection industry. It also stems from the Legal necessity to not only provide an avenue of remedy for one who is falsely accused, but it lets the powers-that-be gloat in confidence that you were told about your rights even if you do NOT understand what they mean or how they can be used to your advantage.
        Is it not amazing that these few simple facts (items one through six) hold/imply so many other meanings and implications? With just this brief examination, we have uncovered an entire alternate reality. When one learns about these alternatives there are infinitely more options available. Some call that freedom.

        Back to the overall Example:
        After receiving your letter, you have three basic choices as to how you may then proceed:

        1. Ignore the letter and do nothing.
        2. Pay the entire sum in question.
        3. Fight/dispute the validity of the alleged claim. This is what our program does.

        The collector is counting on the alleged debtor to either ignore or pay the alleged obligation. Statistically, this has been proven throughout the years to be a correct assumption by the debt collector. Again, they are counting on YOUR ignorance of YOUR rights, and are confident that the intimidation and harassment has been sufficient to take the proverbial wind out of your sails.
        Most people just want to be left alone, and want these debt collectors to go away for good. While this need/want/desire is completely understandable, it is completely up to the individual as to "how" this will be accomplished.

        If one chooses to use the method described in #1 (Ignore the letter and do nothing.), there is a high degree of probability that the action will result in a lawsuit. The collector has given you notice that you had 30 days to dispute the alleged debt. Once this 30 day window-of-opportunity has expired without written communication disputing the alleged debt, the collector now assumes the debt to be valid. When these facts are brought up in court, the collector will be looking for an Order of Judgment to be awarded in their favor. If the alleged debtor cannot provide direct evidence of a mistake/error/fraud, that Judgment will be issued/granted in favor of the NOW legitimate charge. Time to pay up, if you do not you are going to have your property taken away from you.

        NOTE WELL: This might sound like the end of the line, and for MOST people it is. However there exist some very creative and legal solutions to meeting this obligation and they can be used at ANY stage after the Judgment has been awarded. If one chooses to employ the method described in #2 (Pay the entire sum in question), several things are being said/performed both indirectly and directly. The most important of these is that you have unknowingly given these debt collectors your consent to enter into a new contract/obligation that did NOT necessarily need to occur.

        NOTE: Do you recall the aforementioned part that described that you have NO contract/agreement with these people?? When or if you agreed to conduct business with them has now obligated you.
        If one chooses to employ the method described in #3 (Fight/dispute the validity of the alleged claim.), one is embarking on a most empowering and dramatic course of action that will change them forever. Again, there is no agreement/contract, and you are going to be making that painfully obvious to the collector with this dispute/demand for verification.

        NOTE: Once a debt collector has received written communication that the alleged account is under dispute, or that a request for verification has been demanded, the FDCPA comes into play in a very significant way:
        "ALL collection activity MUST immediately come to a halt until the dispute and/or validation has been settled/proven."

        This singular sentence should be INSTANTLY committed to your long-term memory. This is one of the KEY and most vital factors in having the alleged debt permanently removed from your life; it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE for them to provide a true verification. Before that critical word is used again, let us examine the definition:

        Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition.

        "Verification: Confirmation of correctness, truth, or authenticity, by affidavit, oath, or deposition. Affidavit of truth of matter stated and object of verification is to assure good faith in averments or statements of party."

        NOTE: If one were to "swear" something to be correct (via Affidavit, Oath, or Deposition) one would NEED first-hand knowledge of the facts for that Affidavit, Oath, or Deposition to be valid. Do you believe someone in a debt collector’s third-party position/capacity has first hand knowledge of ANYTHING? They do not.

        There is only one type of exchange that can be verified; one that has/leaves a paper trail of the transaction of public funds. Again, in America, public funds would be the use of the rare and scarce commodity known as Federal Reserve Notes; there are ONLY about 600 Billion dollars worth of these Notes for a nation of nearly 300 Million. If one were to go to a private car lot where the owner has obtained the automobiles at an auction or through private exchange with the previous owner, that individual might be offering private financing. If the request for validation was made after the exchange, all the lot owner would have to do is show the account transaction records where the public funds originated. The invoice/receipt of the exchange of vehicle for a Signatory’s promise to pay and the proof of public funds accompanied by an Affidavit of facts spelling this out and sworn by the lot owner, would satisfy and prove the verification request. Real exchanges of public funds are the only obligations that can be verified. Everything else is borderline fraud, and if attempts to collect are made after written communication demanding validation is served, it IS fraud punishable by incarceration and fines/damage awards.

        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

        § 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]
        (a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --
        (1) the amount of the debt;
        (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
        (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
        (4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
        (5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
        (b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.
        (c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
        Taken from http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#809



        --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Debby Eisemann <dmz72962@...> wrote:
        From: Debby Eisemann <dmz72962@...>
        Subject: [tips_and_tricks] any advice on credit issue
        To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 4:22 PM

        Apparantly a debt collector received a judgment against me. (I did not receive the summons, they claim they left it on my home during the winter) They put a freeze on my sons checking account because I am an authorized user. However he has direct deposit and his employer says it could take a month to stop the direct deposit. I live with my adult son and my 2 other minor children. We do not have much income (my sons is the only household income). His direct deposits from work are the only deposits into this account. I am not employed. My son is not a party to this debt as it would have been a debt I incurred years back. Is there some way to try to appeal this court decision? I live in Herkimer county, New York State.

        I had not received any notices in regards to this. The other day my son went to use his debit card associated with this checking account and his purchase was denied. We called the bank and it was the bank who told me the account was frozen and the bank gave me a phone number to contact the creditor. I called them to see if we could make a payment arrangement and unfreeze the account but the woman I spoke to said no that the account would remain frozen till the debt is paid in full. I then tried to call Legal Aid in my area but they have not given me any help, perhaps they are overloaded or they do not handle this kind of case. I did go to the county clerks office today and looked at the case. So it does in fact exists but there are inaccuracies in what they stated regarding serving me the summons. I am basically wondering if there is anything I can do to have the court hear my side of the story. If so can I do this without an attorney?

        Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


      • Edward Wheeler
        There is a free e-book at Beat-Debt-Collectors.com that will give you some ideas on how to vacate a judgment in sec. 3.   Ed ... From: Debby Eisemann
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 19, 2008
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          There is a free e-book at Beat-Debt-Collectors.com that will give you some ideas on how to vacate a judgment in sec. 3.   Ed

          --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Debby Eisemann <dmz72962@...> wrote:

          From: Debby Eisemann <dmz72962@...>
          Subject: [tips_and_tricks] any advice on credit issue
          To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 4:22 PM






          Apparantly a debt collector received a judgment against me. (I did not receive the summons, they claim they left it on my home during the winter) They put a freeze on my sons checking account because I am an authorized user. However he has direct deposit and his employer says it could take a month to stop the direct deposit.
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