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Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

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  • Thrust
    With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 2, 2003
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      With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
       
      Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
       
      Can someone correct me on this?
       
       
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      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

      Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

      http://micromann.freeservers.com
      http://wtplc.freeservers.com
      http://trcp.freeservers.com

       

      Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



      "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
      Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
       
      Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
       
      Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
       
      Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
       
      darryl
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

      Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
      the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
      To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
      Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


      > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
      better
      > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
      is
      > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
      > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
      > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
      question,
      > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
      >
      > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
      > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
      > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
      > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
      > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
      which
      > may or may not be accurate.
      >
      > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
      > best possible answers there are to many questions.
      >
      > Gary
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
      > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
      > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
      >
      >
      > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
      > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
      > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
      > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
      > deny it  because the common person always looses...
      >
      > lynne
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >




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    • Dan
      A signature( UCC 1-201(39), no matter how. Ie: upper lower an X or the like or UCC 1-207 (1-207 is tricky folks. look it up in blacks law to confirm) or any
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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        A signature( UCC 1-201(39), no matter how. Ie: upper lower an X or the like or UCC 1-207 (1-207 is tricky folks. look it up in blacks law to confirm) or any other, does not matter.
        If there is INTENT by anyone or someone with the docket of apparent authority for anyone else it makes no difference folks.
        INTENT does. If there is probable cause AT ALL for ANY INTENT it constitutes consent hense an agreement. No signature even required.
        This is from over 12 years of my own 1st hand knowledge in the commercial industry.
        Hope this helps out some folks.
         
        Dan (ROC-GRP)
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Thrust
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

        With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
         
        Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
         
        Can someone correct me on this?
         
         
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        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

        Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

        http://micromann.freeservers.com
        http://wtplc.freeservers.com
        http://trcp.freeservers.com

         

        Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



        "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
        Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
         
        Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
         
        Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
         
        Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
         
        darryl
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

        Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
        the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
        To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
        Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


        > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
        better
        > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
        is
        > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
        > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
        > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
        question,
        > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
        >
        > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
        > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
        > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
        > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
        > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
        which
        > may or may not be accurate.
        >
        > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
        > best possible answers there are to many questions.
        >
        > Gary
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
        > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
        > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
        >
        >
        > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
        > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
        > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
        > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
        > deny it  because the common person always looses...
        >
        > lynne
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >




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      • Darryl B. McDowell
        If I did just that, I would not be able to state my case and the truth for the record in Family Court in Winnipeg, MB for my daughter unseen. Trial in October
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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          If I did just that, I would not be able to state my case and the truth for the record in Family Court in Winnipeg, MB for my daughter unseen.
           
          Trial in October of this year.
           
          darryl
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:28 PM
          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

          Darryl,
           
          I certainly believe we all should obey God and follow His Word.  We live in a world controlled by Satan until the story is completed (we are in the last chapter, near the last pages, as I am sure you know).  We should follow Jesus' (Yahshua's) example and say nothing at all or say, "you have said it" if we are on trial. 
           
          Tally Eddings
          Orlando, Florida
          (Under attack and bunkered down, knowing my end is near).
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 4:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

          Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

          http://micromann.freeservers.com
          http://wtplc.freeservers.com
          http://trcp.freeservers.com

           

          Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



          "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
          Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
           
          Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
           
          Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
           
          Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
           
          darryl
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

          Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
          the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
          To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
          Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


          > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
          better
          > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
          is
          > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
          > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
          > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
          question,
          > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
          >
          > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
          > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
          > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
          > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
          > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
          which
          > may or may not be accurate.
          >
          > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
          > best possible answers there are to many questions.
          >
          > Gary
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
          > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
          > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
          >
          >
          > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
          > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
          > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
          > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
          > deny it  because the common person always looses...
          >
          > lynne
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >




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        • Darryl B. McDowell
          Well, if the pigs can coerce or dupe one into signing, they use that anyway....and de facto steal you and your possessions...like the Police State thieves they
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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            Well, if the pigs can coerce or dupe one into signing, they use that anyway....and de facto steal you and your possessions...like the Police State thieves they are...
             
            darryl
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Thrust
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 3:30 PM
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

            With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
             
            Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
             
            Can someone correct me on this?
             
             
            -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

            Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

            http://micromann.freeservers.com
            http://wtplc.freeservers.com
            http://trcp.freeservers.com

             

            Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



            "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
            Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
             
            Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
             
            Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
             
            Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
             
            darryl
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
            Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

            Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
            the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
            To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
            Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


            > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
            better
            > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
            is
            > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
            > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
            > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
            question,
            > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
            >
            > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
            > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
            > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
            > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
            > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
            which
            > may or may not be accurate.
            >
            > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
            > best possible answers there are to many questions.
            >
            > Gary
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
            > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
            > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
            >
            >
            > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
            > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
            > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
            > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
            > deny it  because the common person always looses...
            >
            > lynne
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >




            ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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          • Tally Eddings
            Sir, you are absolutely, 100%, CORRECT. Even in your own handwriting, your signed name remains only an AUTOGRAPH unless you, yourself, testify that you give
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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              Sir, you are absolutely, 100%, CORRECT.  Even in your own handwriting, your signed name remains only an AUTOGRAPH unless you, yourself, testify that you give this signing the legal designation of "signature" willingly and ALWAYS to your own benefit.  You must protect yourself. The law allows it. 
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Thrust
              Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

              With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
               
              Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
               
              Can someone correct me on this?
               
               
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

              Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

              http://micromann.freeservers.com
              http://wtplc.freeservers.com
              http://trcp.freeservers.com

               

              Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



              "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
              Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
               
              Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
               
              Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
               
              Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
               
              darryl
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
              Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

              Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
              the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
              To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
              Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


              > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
              better
              > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
              is
              > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
              > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
              > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
              question,
              > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
              >
              > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
              > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
              > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
              > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
              > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
              which
              > may or may not be accurate.
              >
              > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
              > best possible answers there are to many questions.
              >
              > Gary
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
              > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
              > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
              >
              >
              > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
              > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
              > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
              > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
              > deny it  because the common person always looses...
              >
              > lynne
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >




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            • Richard Johnson
              Hi all On 03 June 2003 Dan wrote: A signature( UCC 1-201(39), ... does not matter. ... If there is probable cause AT ALL for ANY INTENT it constitutes
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 3, 2003
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              • 0 Attachment
                Hi all

                On 03 June 2003 Dan wrote:
                " A signature( UCC 1-201(39), ... does not matter. ... If there is
                " probable cause AT ALL for ANY INTENT it constitutes consent
                " hence an agreement. No signature even required.

                Does this also hold true in the absence of a mandated full disclosure or
                material concealment?

                --
                Richard Johnson richard@...
                Cuis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cui bono?
              • RotorRider
                I agree that a written name can t be a signature unless the person signing was aware of and UNDERSTOOD all of the facts of the contract, agreement,
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 7, 2003
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  I agree that a written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' was aware of and UNDERSTOOD all of the facts of the contract, agreement, etc.(i.e.: the full implication of his signature).
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Thrust
                  Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                  With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
                   
                  Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
                   
                  Can someone correct me on this?
                   
                   
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
                  Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                  Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

                  http://micromann.freeservers.com
                  http://wtplc.freeservers.com
                  http://trcp.freeservers.com

                   

                  Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



                  "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
                  Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
                   
                  Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
                   
                  Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
                   
                  Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                   
                  darryl
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
                  Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                  Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
                  the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
                  To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
                  Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


                  > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
                  better
                  > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
                  is
                  > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
                  > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
                  > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
                  question,
                  > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
                  >
                  > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
                  > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
                  > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
                  > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
                  > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
                  which
                  > may or may not be accurate.
                  >
                  > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
                  > best possible answers there are to many questions.
                  >
                  > Gary
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
                  > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
                  > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
                  >
                  >
                  > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
                  > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
                  > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
                  > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
                  > deny it  because the common person always looses...
                  >
                  > lynne
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >




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                • Mark Ferran
                  When you sign a document, it usually appears to the other party that you understand that you are signing and intend to execute an agreement, deed, or whatever.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 7, 2003
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                  • 0 Attachment
                    When you sign a document, it usually appears to the other party that you understand that you are signing and intend to execute an agreement, deed, or whatever.   If you do the act, without intent to be bound, but with intent to obtain the benefit of the agreement, you are committing fraud in your heart, or Larceny.
                     
                    Here is another example of a person signing something he did not understand:
                     

                    "Stupid" Mexican "honor student" signs "voluntary deportation" papers:

                    This Mexican "honor student" (raised and educated in the US) signed "voluntary deportation" papers because the policemen did not "explain it" to him.   I don't think the US needs any more "honor students" who can't understand what they are signing.  He was arrested when he participated in a Socialist Worker's Demonstration in Long Beach, CA.  He whines:
                     
                    " I tried to explain my situation to the officer and he just told me in an aggressive tone to sign the paper. The officer then looked at another officer, and gave him a look, saying how stupid I was. As it turns out I signed a "voluntary deportation" paper. They wouldn't even explain it to me. On June ? around 10pm, I was literally dropped off at the border with nothing but the clothes I had on and the few bucks I had when I was arrested."
                     
                    Where can we get some of those "voluntary deportation" papers????   I think it would be a great idea to walk around with them.
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 6:48 PM
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                    I agree that a written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' was aware of and UNDERSTOOD all of the facts of the contract, agreement, etc.(i.e.: the full implication of his signature).
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Thrust
                    Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                    With respect to signature, it is my understanding that the mere application of the hand and pen to the page does not constitute a signature. A written name can't be a signature unless the person 'signing' UNDERSTOOD the full implication of his signature.
                     
                    Based on that fact, it is my understanding that unless you say it is your signature, it cannot be your signature, notary not withstanding.
                     
                    Can someone correct me on this?
                     
                     
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:19 PM
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                    Folks:  This is the last time you need to hear this.  The corporation court system functions on fraud and requires the agreement from the people that the fraud is the truth in order to apply the fraud to the people.  NOW HEAR THIS:  If anything comes out of the trick bag of a commercial agent, or off the table of a commercial agent, IT IS A FRAUD.  Period.  Do not even think about.  Just say no.  If they did not bring the notary with his/her book, then you got no problem.  Hand writing experts are a joke and easily impeachable.  Someone else on this list told how to impeach the notary.  Now if you do not know the difference between JOHN SMITH and John Smith, then you will say the wrong thing and you may go to jail.  If you want to know the difference, then go here and order the video:  

                    http://micromann.freeservers.com
                    http://wtplc.freeservers.com
                    http://trcp.freeservers.com

                     

                    Just click on any of the above!!  Tell microman, our web master, to send you the video.  O K, nuff said.  L  -o-



                    "Darryl B. McDowell" <apostledbm@...> wrote:
                    Yes, but is it true, is it righteous?
                     
                    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
                     
                    Do unto others as ye would have others do to you.
                     
                    Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                     
                    darryl
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:15 AM
                    Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] proof

                    Hillary and Bill used this approach successfully MANY times.  Thank you for
                    the reminder.  If it is good enough for them, it is good enough for us.


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "*" <elementalfire@...>
                    To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 10:38 AM
                    Subject: RE: [tips_and_tricks] proof


                    > If you are presented with an allegedly original document, it might be
                    better
                    > to testify that you simply cannot be SURE that it is you signature.  This
                    is
                    > actually true as you have not always had that document in your possession
                    > and what you are looking at could easily be a forgery.  That way they can
                    > never claim perjury, "I don't know." is a very good answer to the
                    question,
                    > "Is this your signature?".  It is in fact a good answer to many questions.
                    >
                    > If you think carefully about it, there are very few things that you can
                    > actually testify to with absolute certainty. Even something as obvious as
                    > "When were you born?", there is no way you can testify under oath of that
                    > date as you have no personal knowledge of it.  You only know what someone
                    > told you (hearsay) and perhaps what it says on your birth certificate
                    which
                    > may or may not be accurate.
                    >
                    > "I don't know", "I can't recall" and "I don't remember" are three of the
                    > best possible answers there are to many questions.
                    >
                    > Gary
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: lynne [mailto:wolfshadow51@...]
                    > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 7:00 PM
                    > To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [tips_and_tricks] proof
                    >
                    >
                    > if you testify in court that the signature on a document is not
                    > yours  that's purgery [how do you spell that?]  if a handwriting
                    > expert testifys that  he's 99% sure that it's your handwriting the
                    > judge will convict you  - right???  it doesn't matter how much you
                    > deny it  because the common person always looses...
                    >
                    > lynne
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >




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