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Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: non datur

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  • Thrust
    I just went to the oceania and the Principality of New Utopia. Very interesting. Do you mean you can actually USE an Oceania passport to travel and actually go
    Message 1 of 5 , May 14, 2003
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      I just went to the oceania and the Principality of New Utopia. Very
      interesting. Do you mean you can actually USE an Oceania passport to travel
      and actually go to Europe or other continent and not be put on a plane and
      sent immediately back home?

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Richard Johnson" <richard@...>
      To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: non datur


      > On Tuesday 13 May Tim Kiley wrote:
      > " I used the Oceanus Passport for a long time with their international
      > " driving permit, but they always look you up and charge with driving
      > " on an expired (California) license because they find a name in their
      > " system that looks like the one on the Passport.
      >
      > You are the first person I've heard from who actually used one of those
      (if
      > by the Oceanus passport you mean the ones issued by the Atlantis Project
      > (aka "Oceania") a few years back. If you mean something else, I take it
      > all back.) Anyway, if indeed you are talking about using a passport from
      > one of the newly developing free states (if such a non sequitur will ever
      > exist), then it's really too bad that nobody's thought (so far) to
      > recommend or require a legal name change to obtain the citizenship in the
      > new nation. Then what you describe simply could not happen.
      >
      > The goons here might still trace you through fingerprints, iris scans,
      > facial recognition, voice prints, data (credit card) trails, and other
      > invisible means, but at least just merging the data tables on your name or
      > SSN would be pretty pointless.
      >
      > " I believe that the International License and Passports may get harder
      > " to use with Fatherland, I mean, Homeland Security.
      >
      > I hearrd that "they" have been cracking down on international licenses
      > laterly. Would it make sense (I'm speculating out loud here) to have a
      > regular license from your (new) "native" nation and a regular "domestic"
      > license in say California in either your new or old name? I'm not sure
      > what that would entail or what it would mean in practice, so I'm just
      > thinking out loud and soliciting thoughts.
      >
      > Didn't Heinlein say that a society that requires ID hs grown too crowded
      an
      > one should move on?
      > --
      > Richard Johnson
      richard@...
      > Cuis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cui bono?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Tim Kiley
      I don t know anything about Oceania. This is the first time I have heard of it. Tim Kiley ... From: Thrust To:
      Message 2 of 5 , May 14, 2003
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        I don't know anything about Oceania. This is the first time I have heard of
        it.

        Tim Kiley

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Thrust" <thrust@...>
        To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:56 AM
        Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: non datur


        > I just went to the oceania and the Principality of New Utopia. Very
        > interesting. Do you mean you can actually USE an Oceania passport to
        travel
        > and actually go to Europe or other continent and not be put on a plane and
        > sent immediately back home?
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Richard Johnson" <richard@...>
        > To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:58 PM
        > Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: non datur
        >
        >
        > > On Tuesday 13 May Tim Kiley wrote:
        > > " I used the Oceanus Passport for a long time with their international
        > > " driving permit, but they always look you up and charge with driving
        > > " on an expired (California) license because they find a name in their
        > > " system that looks like the one on the Passport.
        > >
        > > You are the first person I've heard from who actually used one of those
        > (if
        > > by the Oceanus passport you mean the ones issued by the Atlantis Project
        > > (aka "Oceania") a few years back. If you mean something else, I take it
        > > all back.) Anyway, if indeed you are talking about using a passport
        from
        > > one of the newly developing free states (if such a non sequitur will
        ever
        > > exist), then it's really too bad that nobody's thought (so far) to
        > > recommend or require a legal name change to obtain the citizenship in
        the
        > > new nation. Then what you describe simply could not happen.
        > >
        > > The goons here might still trace you through fingerprints, iris scans,
        > > facial recognition, voice prints, data (credit card) trails, and other
        > > invisible means, but at least just merging the data tables on your name
        or
        > > SSN would be pretty pointless.
        > >
        > > " I believe that the International License and Passports may get harder
        > > " to use with Fatherland, I mean, Homeland Security.
        > >
        > > I hearrd that "they" have been cracking down on international licenses
        > > laterly. Would it make sense (I'm speculating out loud here) to have a
        > > regular license from your (new) "native" nation and a regular "domestic"
        > > license in say California in either your new or old name? I'm not sure
        > > what that would entail or what it would mean in practice, so I'm just
        > > thinking out loud and soliciting thoughts.
        > >
        > > Didn't Heinlein say that a society that requires ID hs grown too crowded
        > an
        > > one should move on?
        > > --
        > > Richard Johnson
        > richard@...
        > > Cuis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cui bono?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > tips_and_tricks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Richard Johnson
        On 14 May 2003, Tim Kiley wrote: I don t know anything about Oceania. This is the first time I have heard of it. Not much to tell at this point. About
        Message 3 of 5 , May 16, 2003
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          On 14 May 2003, Tim Kiley wrote:
          " I don't know anything about Oceania.
          " This is the first time I have heard of it.

          Not much to tell at this point. About 1995 a guy named Eric Klein decided
          to promote a new "libertarian" nation built on floating platforms just over
          50 miles from Panama, on a shallow spot in the Caribbean. The project
          gained momentum and adherents for about five years. They had a web site, a
          newsgroup, and a mailing list. (I moderated the newsgroup.) About 1998
          or so they started selling flags and passports.

          About 2000 or so, Klein suddenly disappeared. Turns out he owed a lot of
          people a lot of money, and his disappearance raised the spectre that the
          whole thing was a scam and yet another chance for one person to shear some
          sheep. I personally am agnostic about it. I don't know one way or the
          other about the accusations.

          I do know that these revelations and disappearances was a kick to the groin
          of the project. For the last three years, conversation and progress has
          been sporadic. One of the prime movers went to work setting up free ports
          in Somaila. Another went ahead with his buisness of building large-area
          floating platforms, for Florida developers. A few die hards still wait for
          a crritical mass or leader to re-emerge. A few of us, in tiny groups, work
          on bootstrapping means and technology. (If you can't get 10,000 people to
          pony up $50,000 each, how do you start a self-sustaining and free country?)

          So, it's an interesting idea. More like a miscarriage than infant
          mortality. It might get restarted in some other form in the future.
          Oceanus seems both older and more stable. Have you actually used their
          passport?


          Other notable "free state" projects include:

          * "The Free State Project", which is basically a bunch of people who want
          to move into a low-population state and politically take over. (I would
          call this "gulching" with a twist.)

          * Laissez Faire City is a virtual country with a virtual data haven.
          (Totally untraceable money and trading.)

          * The Freedom Ship, which is a huge ocean liner made for rich retirees and
          is not that free (or did I get two projects confused?)

          * The L5 society is still alive and kicking too.

          I'm sure others exist too, and I would welcome knowing who they are so I
          can add them to a somewhat definitive list.

          Discussing free state projects might be off-topic for this list, except for
          comparison and contrast. If you'd like to discuss any of them more, please
          contact me off-list, or get the moderator to say "OK" to the discussion.
          :=)

          Live free and prosper.
          --
          Richard Johnson richard@...
          Cuis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cui bono?
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