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Re: minor against minor sex offenses

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  • Victoria Jones
    Hello All, I ve been observing a short while on this most informative and interesting list. Thank you for such a wonderful online resource. What an issue to
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 6, 2006
      Hello All,

      I've been observing a short while on this most
      informative and interesting list. Thank you for such
      a wonderful online resource.

      What an issue to enter in on; I would offer another
      perspective, so please take it in the spirit it is
      offered.

      Understandably, the mother of the five year old is
      upset by the revelation of the 12 year old's behavior.

      The five year old's behavior toward the little boy was
      also inappropriate at school. What if those parents
      pursue litigation and punitive measures?

      I'd just caution everyone involved (the adults) to
      step back, tape a deep breath, and get a balanced
      perspective on the issue--prayer and introspection may
      help. I'd also caution the adults to pause before
      labeling a 12 year old girl as some perverted sexual
      predator. For goodness sake, refrain from shaming
      tactics towards this child. If she was eight and
      exploring sexuality with a five year old cousin, would
      it be perverse abuse? Some points of view might say
      little kids explore and it is normal. Or, is it?
      Regardless, perhaps the solution at least in part,
      starts with adult and parental teaching of the
      youngsters to value and respect their energies and
      personal bodies, including the teaching of boundaries
      on their person, relationships to one another, etc.
      Usually, children express the issues of the
      parents--repressed, unconscious, or expressed. The
      children are sacred, as is their sexuality. Wisdom
      and love is called for.

      Best regards,
      VJ


      --- subha_mng <subha_mng@...> wrote:

      > hello iam from india a law student.
      > actually the remedy is to have stict note on her and
      > putting her in
      > a juvinile home. BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A PUNISHMENT
      > BUT TO SAVE OTHERS
      > AND ALSO TO HAVE AA GOOD FUTURE IT SHOULD BE DONE.AS
      > PER OUR INDIAN
      > LAW MINORS ARE EXEMPTED IN CERTAIN ACTS BUT THEY CAN
      > ALSO BE
      > PROCECUTED AND THE PUNISHMENTS GIVEN TO THEM IS
      > SPENDING LIFE IN
      > JUVINILE HOME TIL THEY ATTAIN MAJOR.
    • Nikki Snavely
      I would like to say, I agree with you. As I have entered that into my thoughts on several occassions. I would like to state that my 5 year old simply put her
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 6, 2006


        I would like to say, I agree with you.  As I have entered that into my thoughts on several occassions.  I would like to state that my 5 year old simply put her hands up a little boys short leg.  She did not touch underneath his clothing.  I realize how inappropriate this is, and my daughter will be getting counselling.  What was done to her, passed the molestation stage and entered into rape.  And for the record, I still don't know if those parents plan to pursue litigation.  However, in light of it all there is a huge difference in being 5 and 12, just as the difference in being 12, and 18.  Not only the mental aspect of the ages, but the physical as well.
        At the age of 5, therapy is suggested.  At the age of 12 basically as I see it the same thing is suggested.  There is a fine line with the age of 12.  Some children are still innocent and some are past the point of innocence at that age.
         
        On a personal note It has been 4 days+ since I found out about this.  I have changed from being angry to fearful.  Part of me is still angry, but not necessarily at my niece.  It has somewhat changed.  If my brother knew this happened a year ago with another child, why didn't he seek his daughter some help then.  She is accountable for what she did, however, the fact that she kept reoffending is her dad's fault.  He should have sought her some help.  HE is the one who denied her getting better.  Do I think she should be punished?  Not necessarily.  Juvenile would only make her more angry, resentful and hurt.  It would only further harm her past the point of normalcy.  And a 99% chance that she would only get out and reoffend and yet again the cycle starts all over again, and we are right back where we started.  And another child is hurt and more parents are angry.  So I sit back, and I wonder what is best?

        I have no doubt that the courts will not listen to me, as I am merely a voice.  I will make my voice heard though.  What is best?  Is not punishment.  It is accountability.  First and foremost her not only understanding what she did is wrong, but understanding that there are consequences for doing wrong things.  In one sense you can say, if she goes unpunished she will think she is above the law and no matter what she does in life she will always just get a slap on the wrist.  But we are talking about a "child" here.  My brother thinks probation would ruin her life.  I think it would save it.  Then she knows, if she EVER reoffends not only is it serious but then she would have punishment.  If you can not see it, I am trying really hard to not just be an angry parent, but put myself outside the situation as though it did not happen to my child and what I think would be right.

        There is a fine line between justice and injustice in this situation.  It is not justice I seek.  I hope everyone understands that.  What I seek is the assurance, that this will never happen to my child, or anyone elses by this girl.  How do we assure that?  Put yourself in my shoes.  I am not demonstrating the pretense of an ANGRY parent.  I am not saying lock her up from society and throw away the key.  What I am suggesting is not outlandish or heartless.

        I have called the proper people I need to call.  I found out today that pretty much the 12 year old is walking out of this with nothing.  She will go to "therapy".  She is NOT being charged criminally.  Meaning there will be no probation, there will be no juvie, there will be no community service.  She was referred to FINS.  Which is part of juvenile services.  But for assessment and help. 

        In order to get what I feel is appropriate I would have to file a report against her.   For them to pursue this criminally.  I know if I do this, she will probably be referred to juvenile detention and if that happens in the end we all lose.  I don't understand why they can not put her on probation within all this.  That and community service (which I think would be a very positive thing for her) is all I'm asking out of all this.  I am not being hateful or cruel.  I am now at a point I don't really know what to do.  Advice is all I can get from this site from this point.  And support which is what I have gotten from a lot of private emails to me.  I thank all of you for that.  In spite of what has been said.  It has given me several perspectives to look at and in lieu of what has happened that has definately been needed and much appreciated.  Now is only the decision of what to do, pursue it or let it go.  I feel both are an injustice in this matter.

        Thank you all who have responded and I know will continue to respond,

        Nikki


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      • one
        None of these infants have attained the age of discretion nor have they attained the age of consensual sexual awareness. Little ones play. Now even childhood
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 6, 2006
          None of these infants have attained the age of discretion nor have they
          attained the age of consensual sexual awareness. Little ones play.
          Now even childhood play is a reason to call in the police state ?

          This whole thread is an example of legal excess void of ordinary sense
          and proportion.

          If it weren't so tragic in its effect on people and the young,
          especially, it would be comical. As it is, it qualifies for the
          adjective "disgusting", in every sense.
        • Joy Metcalf
          I disagree. There s a huge difference between childhood play and sexual exploration, and sexual abuse. When a child is subjected again and again to sexual
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 7, 2006
            I disagree.  There's a huge difference between childhood play and sexual exploration, and sexual abuse.  When a child is subjected again and again to sexual acts, to the point of rape, that's not play. A similar scenario played out many (25+) years ago with someone very close to me.  He still bears the scars of it.  Your reply is an example of sticking your head in the sand. 

            At 09:33 PM 10/6/2006 -0500, you wrote:
            Now even childhood play is a reason to call in the police state ?

            This whole thread is an example of legal excess void of ordinary sense
            and proportion.


            Joy Metcalf   rosawoodsii@...

            "A government under the U.S. Constitution, to paraphrase columnist Joseph Sobran, would be a radical improvement over the one we have today.­Las Vegas Review Journal





















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