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  • Don Schwarz
    Make a sworn affidavit of the conversation. Make it FOR THE RECORD Mail a copy to the person you spoke to. Give them 10 days to respond. If they do not, then
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 31, 2006
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      Make a sworn affidavit of the conversation.

      Make it FOR THE RECORD

      Mail a copy to the person you spoke to.

      Give them 10 days to respond.

      If they do not, then you have a RECORD
      of what was said.




      At 12:01 AM 1/31/06 +0000, you wrote:
      >Recently was involved in a traffic stop, regarding going 42 mph in a
      >30 mph zone. I was pissed off about this and went to the municipal
      >clerk and made an open public records act for the bond and/or
      >insurance and oath of office for the officer. There response was that
      >they did not have an oath of office on file for the officer and that
      >police and judges do not have bond and/or insurance and are not
      >required to have them. What does this all mean and how can a use it
      >for my traffic case
    • paradoxmagnus@earthlink.net
      Who said anything about appearing in the alleged court? I was talking about how I would document it in the record. To me it s called C.Y.A. MAXIM OF LAW A
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 31, 2006
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        Who said anything about appearing in the alleged court?
         
        I was talking about how I would "document it in the record."
         
        To me it's called C.Y.A.
        MAXIM OF LAW
        A presumption will stand good until the contrary is proved. 
        All things are presumed to be lawfully done and duly performed until the contrary is proved.
        I've rarely seen just IGNORING things make a situation get any better.
         
        In many cases doing so WORSENS the situation.
         
        And I think there is a DIFFERENCE between PARTICIPATING in their FRAUD and DOCUMENTING it.
         
        The first will likely lead to you being found GUILTY.
         
        The second is more likely to have the action DISMISSED and give you a CAUSE of ACTION against the ACTORS.
         
        Patrick in California
         
        "It isn't the jumping that kills you. It is the sudden stop."-Unknown
         
        --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gary2666@c...> wrote:
        >
        > How can someone enter things into the record when there are no qualified judges to hold court?  I suppose you could file it with the clerk, assuming they don't need an oath on file to hold the office.  Why should you even show up at the alleged court, if the person claiming to be a police officer and gave you the alleged ticket, doesn't  have an oath on file then you were never given a ticket by anyone authorized to do so.
        >
        > Gary
      • Frog Farmer
        ... The clerk is supposed to have an oath too. But what caused all this to be necessary? A neighbor without an oath decided to play cop and somebody humored
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2006
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          On Jan 31, 2006, at 8:24 AM, gary wrote:
          >  
          > Patrick in California suggests you do an affidavit and a memorandum of
          > law but, if the the "judge" doesn't have the proper oath on file and
          > the proper bond, he is not a judge so, who will you give these things
          > to?

          The clerk is supposed to have an oath too. But what caused all this to
          be necessary? A neighbor without an oath decided to play cop and
          somebody humored him? Maybe out of a feeling of guilt? What else is a
          good reason?

          >   Funny that Patrick suggests these things in a state that has a
          > signed and filed oath requirement.  Frog Farmer, who is from
          > California says, he has never found an alleged police officer or judge
          > who has the proper oath on file so none of them actually hold the
          > office and he disqualifies them all.
          >

          That's right - here, everybody has the right to approve of anyone for
          anything. I wonder how Patrick imagines that anything real has caused
          a situation where anything should or can be filed, anywhere. For whom
          will he permit deviation from the law? How can it be alright for some
          to disregard the law yet others may not? I find it fairer to
          disqualify all equally.
        • Frog Farmer
          ... Yes, CYA if you must. Sometimes filing a paper constitutes a general appearance. One must be careful. ... I never would advocate ignoring the situation.
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
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            On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:04 PM, <paradoxmagnus@...> wrote:

            > Who said anything about appearing in the alleged court?
            >  
            > I was talking about how I would "document it in the record."
            >  
            > To me it's called C.Y.A.

            Yes, CYA if you must. Sometimes filing a paper constitutes a general
            appearance. One must be careful.

            >> MAXIM OF LAW
            >> A presumption will stand good until the contrary is proved. 
            >> All things are presumed to be lawfully done and duly performed until
            >> the contrary is proved.I've rarely seen just IGNORING things make a
            >> situation get any better.

            I never would advocate ignoring the situation. I just like to
            correctly identify the situation. And you can see why it is always
            harder to go back and correct mistakes of granting authority where none
            should have been granted except for the fact that the pizza was getting
            cold and the guy had a gun and the kids were tired.

            > In many cases doing so WORSENS the situation.

            Abzolootely!
             
            > And I think there is a DIFFERENCE between PARTICIPATING in their FRAUD
            > and DOCUMENTING it.

            "Their"?? You can collect multiple names, but it's hard to tie them
            all together in a conspiracy. And is it fraud, or a lot of mistake?
            If it's mistake on the level sometimes reported, I don't have time to
            document "their" mistakes, because I have a life to live. The
            "machine" has no life and goes on and on and on... We should not waste
            ourselves flailing against it. I prefer to keep it on the level of one
            on one. So I meet no "second ones". I used to, but not anymore. The
            "first ones" don't want to embarrass themselves, and they do have some
            "discretion" don't they?? I can make or break careers, how about you?
            Let's just all say, "have a nice day!"

            > The first will likely lead to you being found GUILTY.

            Now, just so I'm clear, we're talking about California here, right?
            Yeah, that's right, if you "ignore the situation" you will be declared
            guilty.

            > The second is more likely to have the action DISMISSED and give you a
            > CAUSE of ACTION against the ACTORS.

            Except that there was no "action" to "dismiss". And where is your
            cause of action?? Why didn't you do a citizen's arrest when you saw a
            crime being committed? When did your cause of action arise?? Do I
            have a cause of action against a man who lies to me, and even though I
            have good reason to suspect the lie, I act as though it was true? Just
            think of all the lies people act on! I don't see the liars getting
            sued because of it, except maybe for Ken Lay of ENRON, but then what do
            we really know about that case? I have a feeling he was doing the same
            accounting as many others were doing, since our whole monetary system
            is a house of cards to begin with.

            Instead of "submitting" at the first encounter and offer of
            confrontation, would not a sovereign exercise all rights and powers and
            duties to uphold the constitution? When one fails to show that he is
            the leader, the followers will assume control, which is usually no
            control. Most paycheck anticipators will not want to gamble their
            careers on a bet they have already lost. Your job is to show them that
            resistance is futile, and that there are plenty of other sheep to
            shear, so go have a good day - you saw nothing here. Don't come back.
            I'll be angry next time. And, it's nothing personal. Adios Amigo!

            > Patrick in California

            Around you, do they say, "This IS Mexico!"

            And I can no longer point to the border description that used to be in
            the state constitution. It got removed somehow. Now California is
            just a "state of mind" - at least that's all anyone can prove anymore.
          • paradoxmagnus
            I think it would be very helpful and enlightening if someone like the Frog Farmer would walk us STEP-BY-STEP through how they have successfully handled an
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
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              I think it would be very helpful and enlightening if someone like the
              Frog Farmer would walk us STEP-BY-STEP through how they have
              successfully handled an encounter with an ALLEGED "law enforcement
              officer" because if NO TICKET is ever WRITTEN, then we NEVER have to
              deal with any of the other BS "after the fact."

              Patrick in California
            • Frog Farmer
              ... I ve tried to demonstrate it on lists, but nobody seemed able to play the part of the impersonator. Because so many variables can enter in, there s no ONE
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 2, 2006
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                On Feb 2, 2006, at 12:30 PM, paradoxmagnus wrote:

                > I think it would be very helpful and enlightening if someone like the
                > Frog Farmer would walk us STEP-BY-STEP through how they have
                > successfully handled an encounter with an ALLEGED "law enforcement
                > officer" because if NO TICKET is ever WRITTEN, then we NEVER have to
                > deal with any of the other BS "after the fact."
                >

                I've tried to demonstrate it on lists, but nobody seemed able to play
                the part of the impersonator.

                Because so many variables can enter in, there's no ONE way to do it.
                It requires thinking on one's feet, in the heat of the moment. I've
                had innumerable encounters, but none was ever a duplicate of another.

                But let's see if anyone can make use of these steps:

                1. Read and know your constitutions.
                2. Read and know your state vehicle code, penal code, evidence code,
                code of civil procedure, government code, anything that can give you
                useful ammunition for arguing.
                3. Know what it takes to transform your mere neighbor into an agent
                able to speak with the authority of the state.
                4. Do some research - find out if there is ANYONE in "authority" within
                your area of concern. If you KNOW there is nobody filling that
                description, DO NOT ACT "as if" you believed otherwise.
                5. You have to be able to CONFRONT when confronted. No "yes sir", "no
                sir", "yes, OFFICER" - if you are observed calling someone a title,
                then witnesses can testify to that fact. Why would you do that if you
                knew otherwise?
                6. When somebody approaches me (I DO NOT approach them) and they tell
                me, "I'm a police officer", I would probably say, "do you know who I
                am?" because in my county they held lessons on how to deal with me. I
                do not carry "ID" (whatever THAT is!). I know who I am, and everyone I
                deal with knows me. If they know who I am, the "problem" is probably
                solved. If they do not know who I am, I recommend calling someone
                with more experience, and many times I will demand that they call their
                Superior (NOT "superior OFFICER", just "Superior".)
                7. No matter who shows up, the more the merrier, I ask if all know that
                impersonation of an officer is a crime, and I make it known that I
                suspect that I am being made the target of an impersonation, because I
                have copies of all the valid oaths carried by people in my area, and
                none of them pertain to any of these people. I will entertain
                testimony that somebody is new and has an oath on file I have never
                seen yet. I would subpoena it for any hearing, and would not let
                anything proceed past the identification and qualification of the
                alleged "officer".
                8. If anyone threatens to arrest me, I make it clear that I will
                perform a "mutual citizens arrest" for the crime of impersonation of an
                officer, and I will name as accomplices anyone who interferes. And I
                would, if pressed to do so. So far, no takers.

                Many people might make the mistake of permitting others to act for the
                state, such as clerks and magistrates, when attempting to subpoena an
                oath. That would be a fatal mistake. ALL must be either QUALIFIED or
                DISQUALIFIED before being permitted to even SPEAK or ACT.
                Disqualification of a judge MUST be done before he can SPEAK ONE WORD
                from the bench. If he takes any official action before you've
                disqualified him, it stands until overturned, something nobody wants to
                have to achieve. So, one must act fast and decisively. I do it by
                pointing to him and saying, "YOU are hereby DISQUALIFIED from acting as
                ______ (judge, magistrate, clerk, officer, bailiff, you name it, if
                it's a state OFFICE.) If you object, I will file papers to that effect
                within 24 hours. You do not have the authority to rule upon your own
                disqualification - however, I will accept your voluntary
                self-disqualification and I'll then not press this matter further in
                the interests of justice."

                I need the mob machinery to keep all the loose Mexican criminals in
                check. When I was robbed and my head was smashed with the tire iron,
                the detectives offered me several big books of pictures containing 800
                "Mexican criminals with mustaches" that were currently known to be
                loose in just this county. Then there were the ones without mustaches,
                and the females, and then all the non-Mexican criminals. Luckily I had
                my suspects narrowed down to only 800! I don't want to cause all the
                cops to disappear; I just want them to leave me alone. And the guys
                playing "judges" perform a useful role in this dysfunctional society,
                because even Mexican murderers don't know how to demand a valid
                arraignment (and I've seen them go to prison without one!)

                And Patrick, I'm not picking on you in particular, it's just that you
                give me an opportun ity to discuss what I think should come first,
                before all that other good stuff you seem to know about. I used to use
                a lot of the cites you post, but after a while, I figured it was pearls
                before swine, and not worth my time. Treating them like anything but
                impersonators only encourages them.

                So, no offense meant, Patrick, or anyone else.
              • CCDude
                Has anyone in the group ever won a right to travel case in Texas... ?????
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                  Has anyone in the group ever won a "right to travel" case in Texas... ?????





                  -----Original Message-----
                • paradoxmagnus
                  It depends on what you mean by won and a right to travel case? I know people in Texas who have had citations regarding motor vehicles DISMISSED. Does
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                    It depends on what you mean by "won" and a "right to travel" case?

                    I know people in Texas who have had citations regarding "motor
                    vehicles" DISMISSED.

                    Does that count?

                    Patrick in California




                    --- In tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com, "CCDude" <ccdude@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anyone in the group ever won a "right to travel" case in
                    Texas... ?????
                  • Email41@aol.com
                    In a message dated 2/3/06 11:04:09 AM Central Standard Time, ... I don t know of anyone that has won a right to travel case anywhere in the past 15 years. I do
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 3, 2006
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                      In a message dated 2/3/06 11:04:09 AM Central Standard Time, ccdude@... writes:

                      Has anyone in the group ever won a "right to travel" case in Texas... ?????


                      I don't know of anyone that has won a right to travel case anywhere in the past 15 years. I do know of people who have won on  procedural rights violations and failure to obtain jurisdiction.
                    • Frog Farmer
                      ... I say I ve won cases too, but then later I realized there were no real cases, just sham proceedings that they said were cases that were dismissed . If
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 4, 2006
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                        On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:54 AM, paradoxmagnus wrote:

                        > It depends on what you mean by "won" and a "right to travel" case?
                        >
                        > I know people in Texas who have had citations regarding "motor
                        > vehicles" DISMISSED.
                        >
                        > Does that count?
                        >
                        > Patrick in California
                        >


                        I say I've won cases too, but then later I realized there were no real
                        cases, just sham proceedings that they said were "cases" that were
                        "dismissed". If there was no case, there was nothing to dismiss, so
                        even though I was in court many days and hours, and many friends
                        witnessed other people in special clothes and stuff, and lots of books
                        on shelves around the walls, and we talked and stuff, some people still
                        think there was a case and others know there was not. You can't really
                        tell just by watching. You need to be able to recognize "indicia" and
                        notice when "requirements" are "fulfilled". So much today is just
                        "show" for a paying audience.
                      • The Handyman
                        I tried to use Frog Farmer s technique in a traffic case last July. The court was packed and I was nervous. I was first on the docket and went for broke.
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 4, 2006
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                          I tried to use Frog Farmer's technique in a traffic case last July. The
                          court was packed and I was nervous. I was first on the docket and went for
                          broke. After applying some of Froggy's method the Judge loudly scolded me
                          in open court saying He is not going to allow me to play games in his court.
                          I responded that I was not playing games nor was I going to let him play
                          games with me. He was shocked. Thereafter, He voluntarily continued the
                          trial saying I better get assistance of counsel because it was obvious that
                          I was headed for contempt charges. The second trial started with a much
                          different tone. The Judge was very nice and accommodating. We went into
                          his chambers and I challenged his oath and bona fide as best able. It was
                          not easy; I was fully prepared to go to jail. Thereafter, he held trial
                          over my objections (without counsel) and I was found guilty and fined $25 on
                          a charge that normally has a fine of $175. I appealed. The appeal was
                          kicked back on minutes not being attached. As I look back I think Froggy has
                          a good technique and it would be great in the form of a script or on a CD
                          the way Stop-the-Cop and Marc Stephen does. I for one would purchase it
                          sight unseen.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
                          To: <tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:22 AM
                          Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Traffic Tickets


                          >
                          > On Feb 2, 2006, at 12:30 PM, paradoxmagnus wrote:
                          >
                          > > I think it would be very helpful and enlightening if someone like the
                          > > Frog Farmer would walk us STEP-BY-STEP through how they have
                          > > successfully handled an encounter with an ALLEGED "law enforcement
                          > > officer" because if NO TICKET is ever WRITTEN, then we NEVER have to
                          > > deal with any of the other BS "after the fact."
                          > >
                          >
                          > I've tried to demonstrate it on lists, but nobody seemed able to play
                          > the part of the impersonator.
                          >
                        • Advancepum@aol.com
                          If you go into court never do it without a court reporter. If you want to appeal you ve got to have the record, if they do somthing to you that can t be
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 5, 2006
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                            If you go into court never do it without a court reporter. If you want to appeal you've got to have the record, if they do somthing to you that "can't  be done" you need the record. You can't go with their record. I've taken a reporter into small claims court.
                            Paul

                            his chambers and I challenged his oath and bona fide as best able.  It was
                            not easy;  I was fully prepared to go to jail.  Thereafter, he held trial
                            over my objections (without counsel) and I was found guilty and fined $25 on
                            a charge that normally has a fine of $175. 
                            I appealed.  The appeal was
                            kicked back on minutes not being attached.
                            As I look back I think Froggy has


                          • Johnathan Doe
                            not in texas but in florida I have won on jurisdictional rights. Email41@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/3/06 11:04:09 AM Central Standard Time,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 26, 2006
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                              not in texas but in florida I have won on jurisdictional rights.
                               


                              Email41@... wrote:
                              In a message dated 2/3/06 11:04:09 AM Central Standard Time, ccdude@... writes:

                              Has anyone in the group ever won a "right to travel" case in Texas... ?????


                              I don't know of anyone that has won a right to travel case anywhere in the past 15 years. I do know of people who have won on  procedural rights violations and failure to obtain jurisdiction.


                              Yahoo! Mail
                              Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                            • jessie garcia
                              If everything is based on contract why do we even have to go to court All I do w/ a ticket is modify it s contents and send it to the court within three
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 1, 2006
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                                If everything is based on contract why do we even have to go to court All I do w/ a ticket is modify it's contents and send it to the court within three business days and I have never heard back from them.....just a thaught.

                                Johnathan Doe <strengthcoach4@...> wrote:
                                not in texas but in florida I have won on jurisdictional rights.
                                 


                                Email41@... wrote:
                                In a message dated 2/3/06 11:04:09 AM Central Standard Time, ccdude@... writes:

                                Has anyone in the group ever won a "right to travel" case in Texas... ?????


                                I don't know of anyone that has won a right to travel case anywhere in the past 15 years. I do know of people who have won on  procedural rights violations and failure to obtain jurisdiction.


                                Yahoo! Mail
                                Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                              • Levi Philos
                                On the Sui Juris forum, there are currently two active threads on the matter of traffic tickets: http://www.suijuris.net/forum/index.php? Speeding tickets from
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 6, 2006
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                                  On the Sui Juris forum, there are currently two active threads on the
                                  matter of traffic tickets: http://www.suijuris.net/forum/index.php?

                                  Speeding tickets from scratch:
                                  http://www.suijuris.net/forum/travel/932-speeding-ticket-scratch-new-post.html

                                  Beat all Traffic Tickets:
                                  http://www.suijuris.net/forum/service-providers/1447-beat-all-traffic-tickets-new-post.html
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