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6871Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: Jail Mail

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  • Frog Farmer
    Oct 16, 2004
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      On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:47 PM, chemelt wrote:

      > I am that somebody (well at least I am one of those somebodies) who
      > asked you HOW to challenge the pretenders.

      Yes, but you never answered any questions, or did as you now do -
      specifying some real situation to which I could respond. Asking "HOW
      to challenge the pretenders" is about as general as "HOW to make
      bread". There are probably a hundred or more ways to do both. A
      general answer to "HOW" to challenge a pretender might be, "either
      verbally or in writing".

      > I never got into a debate
      > with you as I realized that it was futile to argue with you and you
      > will now see why.

      ...See why you realized it, or why it was futile? A debate would
      require two opposing positions, would it not? I had no idea there was
      any subject of argument to argue about. What were the two propositions

      > My situation and that of many others (I suppose) is that I (we)
      > constantly get dragged (kicking and screaming) into "domestic court".

      I take it you are exaggerating. Do you leave skidmarks? What state
      are you in? Did you know I was specifically speaking about California?

      > I have challenge jurisdiction of the court (as stated in their own
      > statutes) and still the pretenders ignore the statutes and do as they
      > please.

      Notice that you are not acting as though you think they are pretenders.
      Pretenders don't have any statutes.

      > Anyone brass (stupid) enough to challenge their "authority"
      > will always lose.

      If they are pretenders, there is nothing to lose. Pretend is not real.
      It's only pretend.

      > I could see me now going into the court room and telling the
      > pretenders (judges) that I didn't recognize their "authority" and they
      > would laugh at me and enter a judgement against me, take my son from
      > me, or do whatever they want to do (throw me in jail for "contempt").

      Just the way you speak of it reveals your mindset which tells me that
      to you, they are not pretenders. And you may be right because right
      now I do not really know where you are or what you are really dealing
      with. If you say they have "authority" and can enter judgments and
      take your son or "whatever they want" including throwing you in jail
      for contempt of pretender, then they very well may have such
      "authority" over YOU.

      > They care not for the law, and certainly care not for anyone
      > challenging their perceived "authority".

      I don't know what anyone cares about where I live.

      > If I failed to show up in their "court" they would just enter a
      > default against me and I would lose my son. I am in a no win
      > situation.

      Yes, it sounds like you are in a no win situation. I think a large
      part of it is in the way you speak of it, but maybe not.

      > OK, so now Mr Frog Farmer, tell me how YOU would challenge the
      > pretenders in a similar situation and don't tell me some flipping
      > responce like you would never get married with a marriage license or
      > some such nonsence (as I agree the license creates jurisdiction but
      > the pretenders could care less for such technicalities).
      > Go for it!
      > Carol

      Let's see if I get this straight - you agree that the license creates
      jurisdiction, so you don't want me to tell you that I would never get
      married with one (even though that would be my answer) but you want me
      to imagine and then tell you how I would challenge an impersonator in
      your situation. I guess I can't do that. When I speak from my
      experience, it is the experience of a human who has spent his entire
      life claiming, exercising and defending his rights. My rights are on
      my mind a lot of the time, so that whenever I'm invited to waive them,
      I notice it and refrain from complying. I don't "find myself" suddenly
      married with a license, or driving with a license, or doing anything
      else with a license. I don't even have a license to do healing, which
      I do a lot as well. My dogs are unlicensed as well (in fact, that was
      my very first court case, taking three years from start to appeal, and
      costing the county over 5,000 FRNs.)

      I know it must sting having to know that you sold yourself into
      slavery, but I would not give up hope - there may very well be many
      ways to extricate yourself. I'm just not the guy to ask about that,
      since I have no experience breaking free of any master. I've always
      been free and plan to remain that way.

      The only hope I can give you would be if you were indeed in California.
      And if you are, the constitution says for you what it says for
      everyone else. And if you believe what you read, you can act on it as
      though you believe it. You do not have to take any polls to determine
      what a majority are willing to pretend, and I think for you to tell
      yourself what others are willing to pretend and what they care about
      may be doing yourself a disservice, because it really doesn't matter
      how many pretenders there are, pretending does not make anything real.

      I think a big part of the problem for many people is that they want to
      fill the vacuum that exists, the absence of real "officers", so they
      accept the sham substitutes that they are offered, for the lack of
      anything better. Imagine the fomer Soviet Union, when the government
      fell into nothingness over the course of a few days. Don't you think
      there were people way out in the hinterlands who never heard the news,
      and who still trembled in fear of the coming of the commissar? They
      had no idea that there was no more commissar to fear. Unscrupulous
      impersonators might even have taken advantage of the situation, taking
      for themselves that which the kulaks needed to give to anyone claiming
      to be commissar, whether the claim was real or not. The same
      situation exists in California. The news has never been announced that
      the whole show is a farce for the amusement of the gullible, and after
      all, it's a dirty job and SOMEBODY has to do it!

      All these unruly slaves out here need to be managed, and by who better
      than experienced actors? So we who know about the situation do not go
      around trying to free the slaves. No, we just spend time making sure
      our own rights are not infringed. You can lead a horse to water, but
      you cannot make him drink. If slaves don't want to be free enough to
      pursue it with daily diligence, then there's nothing any of us other
      free people can do to help them. I haven't met one slave yet that
      wants to pay me for my time so I can teach them how to be free. None
      has even offered to do my farm chores for me, or to even help me do
      them if I would teach them how to get free and maintain it. And I
      certainly don't have the time it takes to do so for nothing. Could you
      get an "A" on an 8th grade English exam? That's a place to start.
      Being able to diagram sentences is especially valuable for dealing with
      the output of impersonators and pretenders.

      When you never replied to me with some words out of your own mind,
      words that you imagine some pretender might use on you, I had nothing
      concrete to which to respond. And now you tell me that even if they
      were not pretenders, you'd still have no leg to stand on, but you still
      want to know how to challenge a pretender. Like you said, you are in a
      no-win situation, because rights are not the issue.

      I use the information that there are no officers. I use it to protect
      my rights. Where rights are not involved, I have no problem with
      pretenders. I don't have time to worry about changing the world,
      because I won't live long enough. But I cannot wait for political
      solutions either, so when these people come into my life, I CHALLENGE
      THEM AT THAT VERY FIRST OPPORTUNITY. I do not wait for their game to
      get tiring before I complain about it. I don't even get into it. So,
      no licenses, so sorry! No "applications" for privileges. No calling
      them "your honor" or "officer" or "judge". It's Mister, Miss or
      Misses. And, for those with NO IMAGINATION AT ALL, here's a way HOW to
      challenge one:

      "Hey mister! Do you have any personal knowledge of the California

      (This is where you, Carol, would come up with the answer you need help
      with....would they answer "yes" or "no"???)

      If they say "no", then they'd be disqualifying themselves, WOULDN'T
      one take an oath to "uphold" that which he has never even read and
      therefore cannot understand? And if you show him that he never took
      the oath, will he then uphold the constitution and admit he's not an
      officer? I've had them do just that!

      If they say "yes": "well then, how do you interpret Article XX,
      section 3? Do you have the exemption it refers to?"

      (This is where you, Carol, would come up with the answer you need help
      with....would they answer "yes" or "no"???)

      Will someone claim that it doesn't apply to them? What do you IMAGINE
      they would do, Carol? You cannot GUESS because each person will be
      unique. Most I meet admit that they never took the oath and are
      therefore not officers with the power to push me around. They don't
      quit pushing others around, just me and a few of my friends, because we
      know the law and we cannot pretend well enough to make anything appear
      real when it's not real. But YOU tell us pretenders can enter
      judgments in the record, even if the record shows they have no oath of
      office, isn't that right? I really think you're making all of this up,
      and are playing pretend with me too!

      You must not be in California, that must be the answer. Am I right?
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