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Re: [ticket2write] Re: Designer Babies (Carol & Rod 37917 & 37918))(Wings)

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  • Pauline Hamilton
    Just to add my two cents worth I wrote an article once on Huntingdon Life Sciences..the UK s largest animal testing business they were targeted by activists
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 13, 2009
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      Just to add my two cents worth
      I wrote an article once on Huntingdon Life Sciences..the UK's largest animal testing business
      they were targeted by activists who threatened violence, who attacked both physically and emotionally the
      scientists involved in testing new drugs on animals for the benefit of humanity, in ethical and safe ways that minimize any pain or suffering to the animals involved...

      If the activists had such a problem with it, why didn't they offer to be the "guinea pigs"...I'll tell you why, because they are basically louts looking for a cause to exploit...these louts that dig up burial plots of family members of the scientists, who spray unidentified chemicals into scientists eyes (he was blinded for three days..and yes it is true), who fire bombed anothers' house, who sent letters and set up a hate campaign against one of the directors wives and decreed on their own website "we think we have driven her to divorce him" as if it were some sick badge of honour...

      Sorry, but this issue really makes my blood boil...

      People are so quick to make a judgement without understanding or knowing what actually happens in these animal testing facilities...

      And you only need to look to the example of thalidomide to see what happens when rigorous testing isn't done...

      Not wanting to attack anyone personally on this, it just does make me really mad

      Pauline

      Pauline Hamilton
      Dance where you can, love where you dare,
      Joy is not finished with you yet....




      From: Susan Donahue <suzianne411@...>
      To: ticket2write@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:20:28 PM
      Subject: [ticket2write] Re: Designer Babies (Carol & Rod 37917 & 37918))(Wings)

      Dear Wings...I gave this a lot of thought before deciding to reply.
      On the majority of points you discussed, I concur. However, when you
      pose the question, "Why, oh why must every advance in medicine by
      plagued with opposition from the ethical brigade?" my mind conjures
      up the horror stories of medical experimentations that took place
      during the Third Reich. There are limits to what ethical and moral
      beings can and should do in the name of medical science. I also have
      problems with much of the testing done on dogs, monkeys, rabits and
      even rats and mice. I am not saying that the use of animals in
      research should be banned entirely, but I would hope that high
      ethical standards would be employed before any creature is exposed to
      pain and suffering. There would have to be a good case made to me
      that no other method could produce the desired results. Medical
      curiosity is not sufficient reason to harm animals. When it comes to
      human life, the hypocratic oath should be the guide..."First, do no
      harm."

      Just my two cents worth,

      Suzianne

      --- In ticket2write@ yahoogroups. com, "wings081" <wings081@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Carol and Rod
      > It is an unwritten rule that two subject matters should not be
      > discussed at t2w: Politics and religion, because both of these are
      > the major causes of all the unrest in this world. However I trust
      you
      > will allow me to have one more post on the `designer baby' project.
      >
      > I am forced to agree with many of the points my two good friends
      have
      > raised and I think Rod has hit the nail on the head with: "God gave
      > us the grey(gray) matter between our ears to use"
      > Look at the phenomenal advances made by man in our own short
      lifetime.
      > In medicine, take as an example that dreaded complaint of Polio.
      > Until Jonas Salik in 1952 and Albert Sabin in 1962 there were
      > hundreds of thousands of sufferers worldwide, whereas now there are
      > fewer than one thousand.
      > One wonders what difference a cure would have made to that four
      times
      > elected great American, FDR crippled from the waist down, if only
      > Salik or Sabin had discovered the vaccine earlier.
      > Whatever your politics you have to give credit where it's due. This
      > unique Democrat shook America out of the depression after the Wall
      > Street crash by cutting the pay of everyone who worked for the
      > government and the armed services by 15% and governmental spending
      by
      > 25%. He took men and women from the soup kitchen queues and gave
      them
      > hope, working at the Tennessee Valley Development. However, his
      > greatest act for humanity was coming to the aid of Britain and her
      > allies in WW2. Had he not been able to persuade his countrymen to
      > join the fight against the Nazis, I may now be writing this in
      German
      > or (perish the thought) Japanese.
      > Why, oh why must every advance in medicine by plagued with
      opposition
      > from the ethical brigade?
      > Let's use that God-given grey matter for the benefit of all.
      > Nothing is impossible to an inventive mind and yet in the New York
      > Times of 1851 some idiot wrote:
      > " There is a crank down in Apalachicola, Florida who claims he can
      > make ice as good as God Almighty"
      > (I can do that these days with my basic refrigerator. )
      > The Boston Post 1865, declared: "Well informed people know it is
      > impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it
      possible
      > to do so, the thing would be of no practical value"
      > (Excuse me a moment, my phone is ringing again)
      > And what about blood transfusions. We know there are only four
      blood
      > groups; A,B,AB or O and if blood is needed for a patient, it has to
      > be compatible to his own to have any chance of being accepted by
      the
      > body.
      > There has been significant developments in manufacturing synthetic
      > blood so we may no longer have to match one of the four groups for
      an
      > emergency transfusion. (I can visualise a vampire saying:" Nurse
      pass
      > me a bag of that new fangled blood, I'm thirsty". This will save a
      > lot of young girls bearing teeth marks on their pretty necks.)
      > Ethics or not, nothing can stand in the path of progress other than
      > man himself.
      > If we are indeed made in God's image, then let us act like gods.
      The
      > materials are readily available all around us so let's plug into
      the
      > grey matter and sort out this sorry state of affairs in which we
      are
      > currently submerged, select the appropriate tools and get started
      on
      > the future.
      >
      > As always
      >
      > Wings.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In ticket2write@ yahoogroups. com, "Carol" <carol_emt87@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Wings,
      > > Your story both delights and disturbs. The research on the human
      > > genome has produced not only dramatic results, but also ethical
      > > dilemmas. However, if you can prevent a disease from evolving, is
      > > that not the right thing to do? Aren't vaccines used everyday as
      an
      > > ounce of prevention? But....and you know there is at least one.
      > > We now have the technology and advances in science to clone human
      > > beings. If the technology exists, it will be used and most likely
      > > already has been utilized somewhere under the cloak of secrecy.
      And
      > > if these people, because that is what they are, were brought
      about
      > > merely as a science experiment or, heaven forbid, for "spare
      > parts",
      > > then we've created not only an ethical dilemma, but also a moral
      > one
      > > as well.
      > > This does not take into account the costs involved. Are these
      > > miracles reserved only for the wealthy? Or can everyone benefit
      > from
      > > disease prevention? More questions... .hmmm.... .
      > > Carol
      > >
      > > --- In ticket2write@ yahoogroups. com, "wings081" <wings081@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > There are times when daily news cannot be disregarded and
      poetry
      > > plus
      > > > story composition is put on hold.
      > > > If my following comments upset any members, I apologise before
      I
      > > put
      > > > pen to paper.
      > > > The headlines of my daily paper read: The first British baby
      > > designed
      > > > to be free of breast cancer has been born into an ethical
      storm.
      > > She
      > > > will grow up without the gene (BRCA1) which has blighted three
      > > > generations of her father's family. The article goes on and
      on
      > > > about the worrying precedent of man wanting to play God.
      > > > And what pray is so very wrong with that. I was always taught
      > that
      > > > God helps those who help themselves.
      > > > In the Good Book Genesis 1:27 we are told "God created man in
      his
      > > own
      > > > image"
      > > > I'm pretty sure a God of whatever faith would not accept
      > > > imperfection of his image as the norm.
      > > >
      > > > I fervently wish those scientists had been around to save my
      soul-
      > > > mate as I held her in my arms while she struggled with her last
      > > > breath.
      > > > I think that's enough for now before I start on Ron.L.Hubbard
      and
      > > > John Travolta's son
      > > >
      > > > As always
      > > >
      > > > Wings
      > > >
      > >
      >


    • wings081
      Dear Suzi I agree with you wholeheartedly about experimentation causing suffering to animals although I believe not all experiments cause cruelty and in many
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 13, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Suzi
        I agree with you wholeheartedly about experimentation causing
        suffering to animals although I believe not all experiments cause
        cruelty and in many cases human volunteers are used. I once
        volunteered myself to a laboratory investigating cures for the common
        cold but I was rejected as unsuitable.
        I remember all too well the tales of the 'Angel of Death', that
        infamous doctor Mengele of Auschwitz.

        Re: "Medical curiosity is not sufficient reason to harm animals"
        I agree and I am firmly against vivisection but I'm fairly sure every
        care is taken by the staff of these establishments to prevent cruelty
        amounting to torture.The labs in UK are closely monitored by the
        animal rights groups.
        In my original post on this subject I was more concerned with people
        complaining of scientists playing God and the case I quoted had
        nothing to do with any harmful experiments to either animals or humans
        but was a simple case of genetic engineering.
        I have witnessed geckos on the walls of rooms in Malta being held by
        their tail by other lizards and pulling away, leaving that appendage
        to fall to the floor, after which I was told they can grow another.
        A niece and a nephew of mine have both lost the lower parts of one of
        their legs due to accidents. They have been fitted with prosthetic
        limbs but wouldn't it be great if cloned legs were available to make
        them whole again or like the gecko they could re-grow their own lower
        legs.

        As ever

        Wings.
        I am supremely confident the ingenuity of man will eventually make an
        end to all disease and suffering.



        --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Donahue"
        <suzianne411@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Wings...I gave this a lot of thought before deciding to reply.
        > On the majority of points you discussed, I concur. However, when
        you
        > pose the question, "Why, oh why must every advance in medicine by
        > plagued with opposition from the ethical brigade?" my mind conjures
        > up the horror stories of medical experimentations that took place
        > during the Third Reich. There are limits to what ethical and moral
        > beings can and should do in the name of medical science. I also
        have
        > problems with much of the testing done on dogs, monkeys, rabits and
        > even rats and mice. I am not saying that the use of animals in
        > research should be banned entirely, but I would hope that high
        > ethical standards would be employed before any creature is exposed
        to
        > pain and suffering. There would have to be a good case made to me
        > that no other method could produce the desired results. Medical
        > curiosity is not sufficient reason to harm animals. When it comes
        to
        > human life, the hypocratic oath should be the guide..."First, do no
        > harm."
        >
        > Just my two cents worth,
        >
        > Suzianne
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "wings081" <wings081@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Carol and Rod
        > > It is an unwritten rule that two subject matters should not be
        > > discussed at t2w: Politics and religion, because both of these
        are
        > > the major causes of all the unrest in this world. However I trust
        > you
        > > will allow me to have one more post on the `designer baby'
        project.
        > >
        > > I am forced to agree with many of the points my two good friends
        > have
        > > raised and I think Rod has hit the nail on the head with: "God
        gave
        > > us the grey(gray) matter between our ears to use"
        > > Look at the phenomenal advances made by man in our own short
        > lifetime.
        > > In medicine, take as an example that dreaded complaint of Polio.
        > > Until Jonas Salik in 1952 and Albert Sabin in 1962 there were
        > > hundreds of thousands of sufferers worldwide, whereas now there
        are
        > > fewer than one thousand.
        > > One wonders what difference a cure would have made to that four
        > times
        > > elected great American, FDR crippled from the waist down, if
        only
        > > Salik or Sabin had discovered the vaccine earlier.
        > > Whatever your politics you have to give credit where it's due.
        This
        > > unique Democrat shook America out of the depression after the
        Wall
        > > Street crash by cutting the pay of everyone who worked for the
        > > government and the armed services by 15% and governmental
        spending
        > by
        > > 25%. He took men and women from the soup kitchen queues and gave
        > them
        > > hope, working at the Tennessee Valley Development. However, his
        > > greatest act for humanity was coming to the aid of Britain and
        her
        > > allies in WW2. Had he not been able to persuade his countrymen to
        > > join the fight against the Nazis, I may now be writing this in
        > German
        > > or (perish the thought) Japanese.
        > > Why, oh why must every advance in medicine by plagued with
        > opposition
        > > from the ethical brigade?
        > > Let's use that God-given grey matter for the benefit of all.
        > > Nothing is impossible to an inventive mind and yet in the New
        York
        > > Times of 1851 some idiot wrote:
        > > " There is a crank down in Apalachicola, Florida who claims he
        can
        > > make ice as good as God Almighty"
        > > (I can do that these days with my basic refrigerator. )
        > > The Boston Post 1865, declared: "Well informed people know it is
        > > impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it
        > possible
        > > to do so, the thing would be of no practical value"
        > > (Excuse me a moment, my phone is ringing again)
        > > And what about blood transfusions. We know there are only four
        > blood
        > > groups; A,B,AB or O and if blood is needed for a patient, it has
        to
        > > be compatible to his own to have any chance of being accepted by
        > the
        > > body.
        > > There has been significant developments in manufacturing
        synthetic
        > > blood so we may no longer have to match one of the four groups
        for
        > an
        > > emergency transfusion. (I can visualise a vampire saying:" Nurse
        > pass
        > > me a bag of that new fangled blood, I'm thirsty". This will save
        a
        > > lot of young girls bearing teeth marks on their pretty necks.)
        > > Ethics or not, nothing can stand in the path of progress other
        than
        > > man himself.
        > > If we are indeed made in God's image, then let us act like gods.
        > The
        > > materials are readily available all around us so let's plug into
        > the
        > > grey matter and sort out this sorry state of affairs in which we
        > are
        > > currently submerged, select the appropriate tools and get started
        > on
        > > the future.
        > >
        > > As always
        > >
        > > Wings.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <carol_emt87@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dear Wings,
        > > > Your story both delights and disturbs. The research on the
        human
        > > > genome has produced not only dramatic results, but also ethical
        > > > dilemmas. However, if you can prevent a disease from evolving,
        is
        > > > that not the right thing to do? Aren't vaccines used everyday
        as
        > an
        > > > ounce of prevention? But....and you know there is at least one.
        > > > We now have the technology and advances in science to clone
        human
        > > > beings. If the technology exists, it will be used and most
        likely
        > > > already has been utilized somewhere under the cloak of secrecy.
        > And
        > > > if these people, because that is what they are, were brought
        > about
        > > > merely as a science experiment or, heaven forbid, for "spare
        > > parts",
        > > > then we've created not only an ethical dilemma, but also a
        moral
        > > one
        > > > as well.
        > > > This does not take into account the costs involved. Are these
        > > > miracles reserved only for the wealthy? Or can everyone benefit
        > > from
        > > > disease prevention? More questions....hmmm.....
        > > > Carol
        > > >
        > > > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "wings081" <wings081@>
        wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > There are times when daily news cannot be disregarded and
        > poetry
        > > > plus
        > > > > story composition is put on hold.
        > > > > If my following comments upset any members, I apologise
        before
        > I
        > > > put
        > > > > pen to paper.
        > > > > The headlines of my daily paper read: The first British baby
        > > > designed
        > > > > to be free of breast cancer has been born into an ethical
        > storm.
        > > > She
        > > > > will grow up without the gene (BRCA1) which has blighted
        three
        > > > > generations of her father's family. The article goes on and
        > on
        > > > > about the worrying precedent of man wanting to play God.
        > > > > And what pray is so very wrong with that. I was always taught
        > > that
        > > > > God helps those who help themselves.
        > > > > In the Good Book Genesis 1:27 we are told "God created man in
        > his
        > > > own
        > > > > image"
        > > > > I'm pretty sure a God of whatever faith would not accept
        > > > > imperfection of his image as the norm.
        > > > >
        > > > > I fervently wish those scientists had been around to save my
        > soul-
        > > > > mate as I held her in my arms while she struggled with her
        last
        > > > > breath.
        > > > > I think that's enough for now before I start on Ron.L.Hubbard
        > and
        > > > > John Travolta's son
        > > > >
        > > > > As always
        > > > >
        > > > > Wings
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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