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Re: An Inconvenient Truth (28516 Caeser)

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  • michel3153
    Wings, I think that the solution is close without the need for a new Otto, etc. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, but about the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 5, 2006
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      Wings,

      I think that the solution is close without the need for a new Otto,
      etc. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, but
      about the time production started, petroleum fuels became available.
      Modern diesel engines will run perfectly fine on peanut oil, corn oil,
      canola oil, and half a dozen other vegetable oils. All that is needed
      is for the price of petroleum fuels to get high enough to make the
      conversion cost effective and desirable. Environmental lobbyists have
      been attempting to make this happen through promotion of high taxes
      and restrictive regulations in the U.S. for years. The infrastructure
      for vegetable fuels will not be developed without years of very high
      fossil fuel prices. By that time, the major world economies will all
      probably be a shambles.
      Mike

      --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "wings081" <wings081@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Caeser
      >
      > I agree with most of what you say, especially the need for us to
      > find an alternative source of energy from fossil fuels. But we are
      > shackled by the greed of the multi-national corporations and their
      > reluctance to forego the luxury of their lifestyle obtained from the
      > exorbitant profits from oil
      > We must look to the young scientists and engineers graduating from
      > our universities to save this World . Not for us, but for our
      > great, great, great grandchildren,so that their history books will
      > tell them, their forbears got it all wrong but at least, before it
      > became irreversible, they tried to correct their mistakes.
      >
      > Somewhere out there is a modern Gottleib Daimler, Nikolaus Otto or
      > Willelm Maybach. They gave us the automobile way back in the year
      > 1889 with the belt drive gas engine car and we became complacent.
      > The horse and stagecoach disappeared.We now only had to crank up the
      > engine and away we go.
      > Maybe we have improved on the 130rpm engine of Otto but we still use
      > his four stroke cycle : Induction, compression, power and exhaust.
      > And it's the exhaust which is giving us the problem. Take a trip to
      > L.A, Mexico City or Bangkok and you realise the damage we are
      > creating for our environment and our bodies.
      >
      > The answer is out there but it requires a Carnegie, a Nuffield or a
      > Lady Astor to stand up and say "I'll provide the finance if you give
      > me the expertise"
      >
      > Then perhaps we will no longer be held to ransom by the oil sheiks
      > of the Middle East.
      >
      > Thank you Caeser for bringing this item to our notice.
      >
      > As always
      >
      > Wings
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth." The
      > > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
      > phenomenon
      > > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
      > > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have never
      > seen
      > > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
      > >
      > > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within the
      > > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
      > because the
      > > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to feed
      > the
      > > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind. One
      > of
      > > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a TV
      > > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag line: "C02,
      > > some call it pollution, we call it life."
      > >
      > > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
      > priority
      > > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
      > nation's
      > > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
      > terrorism,
      > > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
      > prices
      > > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have national
      > > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia for
      > vital
      > > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that Iran
      > has a
      > > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb oil
      > > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
      > bringing
      > > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US economy
      > to a
      > > standstill.
      > >
      >
    • albiaicehouse
      We can t totally understand how open markets will value everything, that s why we depend on the invisible hand named by Adam Smith. But we can see the energy
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 5, 2006
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        We can't totally understand how open markets will value everything,
        that's why we depend on the invisible hand named by Adam Smith. But
        we can see the energy of plowing, planting, cultivating, harvesting,
        separating, pressing, filtering, etc. must have fairly predictable
        energy needs. Petroleum has similar development energy costs but
        presently lower. So you are right that petroleum diesel will be
        cheaper than biodiesel for a long time...or awhile...at least until
        the unstable countries increase the costs on the petroleum side...
        until terrorism and terrorism exploiting countries start exchanging
        innocent human lives for wealth...

        albi

        --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "michel3153" <mike45@...> wrote:
        >
        > Wings,
        >
        > I think that the solution is close without the need for a new Otto,
        > etc. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, but
        > about the time production started, petroleum fuels became available.
        > Modern diesel engines will run perfectly fine on peanut oil, corn oil,
        > canola oil, and half a dozen other vegetable oils. All that is needed
        > is for the price of petroleum fuels to get high enough to make the
        > conversion cost effective and desirable. Environmental lobbyists have
        > been attempting to make this happen through promotion of high taxes
        > and restrictive regulations in the U.S. for years. The infrastructure
        > for vegetable fuels will not be developed without years of very high
        > fossil fuel prices. By that time, the major world economies will all
        > probably be a shambles.
        > Mike
        >
        > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "wings081" <wings081@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Caeser
        > >
        > > I agree with most of what you say, especially the need for us to
        > > find an alternative source of energy from fossil fuels. But we are
        > > shackled by the greed of the multi-national corporations and their
        > > reluctance to forego the luxury of their lifestyle obtained from the
        > > exorbitant profits from oil
        > > We must look to the young scientists and engineers graduating from
        > > our universities to save this World . Not for us, but for our
        > > great, great, great grandchildren,so that their history books will
        > > tell them, their forbears got it all wrong but at least, before it
        > > became irreversible, they tried to correct their mistakes.
        > >
        > > Somewhere out there is a modern Gottleib Daimler, Nikolaus Otto or
        > > Willelm Maybach. They gave us the automobile way back in the year
        > > 1889 with the belt drive gas engine car and we became complacent.
        > > The horse and stagecoach disappeared.We now only had to crank up the
        > > engine and away we go.
        > > Maybe we have improved on the 130rpm engine of Otto but we still use
        > > his four stroke cycle : Induction, compression, power and exhaust.
        > > And it's the exhaust which is giving us the problem. Take a trip to
        > > L.A, Mexico City or Bangkok and you realise the damage we are
        > > creating for our environment and our bodies.
        > >
        > > The answer is out there but it requires a Carnegie, a Nuffield or a
        > > Lady Astor to stand up and say "I'll provide the finance if you give
        > > me the expertise"
        > >
        > > Then perhaps we will no longer be held to ransom by the oil sheiks
        > > of the Middle East.
        > >
        > > Thank you Caeser for bringing this item to our notice.
        > >
        > > As always
        > >
        > > Wings
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth." The
        > > > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
        > > phenomenon
        > > > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
        > > > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have never
        > > seen
        > > > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
        > > >
        > > > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within the
        > > > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
        > > because the
        > > > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to feed
        > > the
        > > > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind. One
        > > of
        > > > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a TV
        > > > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag line: "C02,
        > > > some call it pollution, we call it life."
        > > >
        > > > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
        > > priority
        > > > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
        > > nation's
        > > > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
        > > terrorism,
        > > > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
        > > prices
        > > > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have national
        > > > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia for
        > > vital
        > > > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that Iran
        > > has a
        > > > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb oil
        > > > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
        > > bringing
        > > > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US economy
        > > to a
        > > > standstill.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Jerry
        Folks, It seems to me that (as with the bible) folks can march out any number of experts to prove or disprove any theory. Global warming is just such a
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 6, 2006
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          Folks,
          It seems to me that (as with the bible) folks can march out any
          number of experts to prove or disprove any theory. Global warming
          is just such a theory.
          Some scientists say the recent changes in our planet are illusions,
          some say they are nothing more than a natural warming cycle such as
          the planet has gone through many times before, some say this recent
          warming trend has been advanced from its normal cycle by mankind's
          use of fossil fuels, while still others say the sky is falling. How
          do we decide which course to take?
          Do we ignore all of this silliness about "so called" global
          warming? Do we do nothing and hope for the best? Do we take
          this "threat" seriously and do things immediately to minimize
          possible damage to the earth? Do we go whole hog and abandon
          industrialization completely and crawl back into the caves and begin
          wearing animal skins? What is a good citizen to do?
          For me, global warming is simply that, a theory. This does not mean
          I wish to ignore environmental impacts, quite the reverse.
          I endeavor to make positive impacts on the planet, or at least to
          avoid making negative impacts. I try not to be wasteful; I don't
          jump into my vehicle and drive to the market simply because I am out
          of a single item; I keep my vehicle tuned up; I don't litter; I
          don't flush hazardous chemicals down the drain to get rid of them.
          I try to use products which are environmentally friendly. I plant a
          tree every chance I get. The oxygen I breathe must come from
          somewhere, so I figure why not plant that tree, or several of them
          for that matter?
          I believe it is our job to try and hand over a better world to our
          descendents than the one we were given. We must remember that we do
          not own the earth, the earth owns us. We are merely its caretakers.
          As always,
          Jerry



          --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@...> wrote:
          >
          > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth." The
          > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
          phenomenon
          > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
          > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have never
          seen
          > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
          >
          > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within the
          > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
          because the
          > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to feed
          the
          > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind. One
          of
          > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a TV
          > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag line: "C02,
          > some call it pollution, we call it life."
          >
          > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
          priority
          > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
          nation's
          > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
          terrorism,
          > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
          prices
          > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have national
          > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia for
          vital
          > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that Iran
          has a
          > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb oil
          > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
          bringing
          > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US economy
          to a
          > standstill.
          >
        • wings081
          Jerry my dear old friend, this is `the environmental nut addressing you. I agree there are `lies damn lies and statistics but surely anyone can see we are
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 6, 2006
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            Jerry my dear old friend, this is `the environmental nut' addressing
            you.
            I agree there are `lies damn lies and statistics' but surely anyone
            can see we are outgrowing this earth and if fertility remains
            constant, the world population at 2005 could double by the year 2050.
            The world population is around 6.5 billion of which 1.3 billion are
            Chinese,1.08 are Indian, 295 million are US citizens and 60 million
            are British (Give or take a million or so illegal immigrants)
            Human demands are fast outstripping the earth's natural capacities.
            We should not be concerned only about oil reserves for there are
            substitutes for oil but there is no substitute for water.
            Depletion of underground water resources from over-pumping for
            irrigation purposes is becoming serious.

            For you my friend and myself, we may have no cause for immediate
            concern due to life expectancy, but imagine the state of the world
            today if 400 years ago, our ancestors had stripped our world of the
            resources we enjoy today.
            I imagine we would now be living in a world of shrinking forests and
            expanding deserts. NO! don't imagine that because it is no
            imagination, it is a basic fact of modern man.
            In UK at this time, people in the south east of the country have to
            endure a hosepipe ban due to shortage of water. "Why" they ask " are
            we short of water after all the rain we've had?" The answer is
            simply because water tables are at the lowest level for many years.
            Whatever your thoughts on the environment, it is incumbent on us all
            to endeavour to preserve a world fit for our children before we
            climb Jacob's Ladder on the highroad to heaven.

            Good to see you on board again.

            As always

            Wings (or should it be wing nut)




            --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <jerry5849@...> wrote:
            >
            > Folks,
            > It seems to me that (as with the bible) folks can march out any
            > number of experts to prove or disprove any theory. Global warming
            > is just such a theory.
            > Some scientists say the recent changes in our planet are
            illusions,
            > some say they are nothing more than a natural warming cycle such
            as
            > the planet has gone through many times before, some say this
            recent
            > warming trend has been advanced from its normal cycle by mankind's
            > use of fossil fuels, while still others say the sky is falling.
            How
            > do we decide which course to take?
            > Do we ignore all of this silliness about "so called" global
            > warming? Do we do nothing and hope for the best? Do we take
            > this "threat" seriously and do things immediately to minimize
            > possible damage to the earth? Do we go whole hog and abandon
            > industrialization completely and crawl back into the caves and
            begin
            > wearing animal skins? What is a good citizen to do?
            > For me, global warming is simply that, a theory. This does not
            mean
            > I wish to ignore environmental impacts, quite the reverse.
            > I endeavor to make positive impacts on the planet, or at least to
            > avoid making negative impacts. I try not to be wasteful; I don't
            > jump into my vehicle and drive to the market simply because I am
            out
            > of a single item; I keep my vehicle tuned up; I don't litter; I
            > don't flush hazardous chemicals down the drain to get rid of
            them.
            > I try to use products which are environmentally friendly. I plant
            a
            > tree every chance I get. The oxygen I breathe must come from
            > somewhere, so I figure why not plant that tree, or several of them
            > for that matter?
            > I believe it is our job to try and hand over a better world to our
            > descendents than the one we were given. We must remember that we
            do
            > not own the earth, the earth owns us. We are merely its
            caretakers.
            > As always,
            > Jerry
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth." The
            > > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
            > phenomenon
            > > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
            > > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have never
            > seen
            > > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
            > >
            > > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within
            the
            > > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
            > because the
            > > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to
            feed
            > the
            > > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind.
            One
            > of
            > > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a TV
            > > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag line: "C02,
            > > some call it pollution, we call it life."
            > >
            > > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
            > priority
            > > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
            > nation's
            > > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
            > terrorism,
            > > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
            > prices
            > > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have national
            > > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia for
            > vital
            > > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that
            Iran
            > has a
            > > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb oil
            > > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
            > bringing
            > > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US
            economy
            > to a
            > > standstill.
            > >
            >
          • wings081
            Hi Mike I don t seem to have stated my case too well. When I said alternative source of energy I meant other than fossil fuels, gas, nuclear power, etc. Much
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 6, 2006
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              Hi Mike

              I don't seem to have stated my case too well. When I said
              alternative source of energy I meant other than fossil fuels, gas,
              nuclear power, etc.
              Much of our farming landscape is bright yellow with rape plantings.
              Some for fodder but much of it these days for rapeseed oil for fuel.
              I mentioned the names of Gottleib Daimler and friends as an example
              of how man's ingenuity can overcome any problem posed.

              The energy we need is there for the taking without desecrating the
              environment.
              The earth is a gigantic magnet and it may be possible to tap this
              geomagnetic power,and enhance it to power our vehicles free of
              charge.
              Add to this solar power and suppose solar energy was used to supply
              the power required to extract hydrogen from seawater. Our ships
              would then be free to sail the seas without the need to dock for
              refuelling.
              In Cornwall we have successfully experimented with geothermal
              technology but compared to other sources of power it is at present
              not financially viable.
              We are continually experimenting with tidal power, another great
              source of free energy. Wind farms abound our county, generating
              electricity for thousands of homes.
              And what about gravity, the most powerful force on the planet.
              Coupled with the geomagnetic force we would have the power to
              supersede rockets in our exploration of space.
              It's all out there for the taking, but needs the combined
              cooperation of world governments with engineers and scientists
              working for mankind not for the material benefit of a privileged
              few. We must forget the mighty Dollar, pound and euro.

              Since 1900 AD through WW1 and WW2 we have progressed by leaps and
              bounds.
              Is it going to take another world war to shake us out of our
              complacency?

              We need young brains, straight out of university, with unlimited
              funding to show us the way to the future.


              As always

              Wings









              --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "michel3153" <mike45@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wings,
              >
              > I think that the solution is close without the need for a new Otto,
              > etc. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil,
              but
              > about the time production started, petroleum fuels became
              available.
              > Modern diesel engines will run perfectly fine on peanut oil, corn
              oil,
              > canola oil, and half a dozen other vegetable oils. All that is
              needed
              > is for the price of petroleum fuels to get high enough to make the
              > conversion cost effective and desirable. Environmental lobbyists
              have
              > been attempting to make this happen through promotion of high taxes
              > and restrictive regulations in the U.S. for years. The
              infrastructure
              > for vegetable fuels will not be developed without years of very
              high
              > fossil fuel prices. By that time, the major world economies will
              all
              > probably be a shambles.
              > Mike
              >
              > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "wings081" <wings081@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Caeser
              > >
              > > I agree with most of what you say, especially the need for us to
              > > find an alternative source of energy from fossil fuels. But we
              are
              > > shackled by the greed of the multi-national corporations and
              their
              > > reluctance to forego the luxury of their lifestyle obtained from
              the
              > > exorbitant profits from oil
              > > We must look to the young scientists and engineers graduating
              from
              > > our universities to save this World . Not for us, but for our
              > > great, great, great grandchildren,so that their history books
              will
              > > tell them, their forbears got it all wrong but at least, before
              it
              > > became irreversible, they tried to correct their mistakes.
              > >
              > > Somewhere out there is a modern Gottleib Daimler, Nikolaus Otto
              or
              > > Willelm Maybach. They gave us the automobile way back in the
              year
              > > 1889 with the belt drive gas engine car and we became
              complacent.
              > > The horse and stagecoach disappeared.We now only had to crank up
              the
              > > engine and away we go.
              > > Maybe we have improved on the 130rpm engine of Otto but we still
              use
              > > his four stroke cycle : Induction, compression, power and
              exhaust.
              > > And it's the exhaust which is giving us the problem. Take a trip
              to
              > > L.A, Mexico City or Bangkok and you realise the damage we are
              > > creating for our environment and our bodies.
              > >
              > > The answer is out there but it requires a Carnegie, a Nuffield
              or a
              > > Lady Astor to stand up and say "I'll provide the finance if you
              give
              > > me the expertise"
              > >
              > > Then perhaps we will no longer be held to ransom by the oil
              sheiks
              > > of the Middle East.
              > >
              > > Thank you Caeser for bringing this item to our notice.
              > >
              > > As always
              > >
              > > Wings
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@>
              wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth."
              The
              > > > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
              > > phenomenon
              > > > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
              > > > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have
              never
              > > seen
              > > > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
              > > >
              > > > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within
              the
              > > > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
              > > because the
              > > > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to
              feed
              > > the
              > > > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind.
              One
              > > of
              > > > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a
              TV
              > > > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag
              line: "C02,
              > > > some call it pollution, we call it life."
              > > >
              > > > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
              > > priority
              > > > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
              > > nation's
              > > > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
              > > terrorism,
              > > > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
              > > prices
              > > > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have
              national
              > > > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia
              for
              > > vital
              > > > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that
              Iran
              > > has a
              > > > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb
              oil
              > > > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
              > > bringing
              > > > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US
              economy
              > > to a
              > > > standstill.
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • albiaicehouse
              Jerry, You get off to a start that I think is incorrect, but the majority of what you say and do is wonderful. However, let me make an analogy: if you were on
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 6, 2006
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                Jerry,

                You get off to a start that I think is incorrect, but the majority of
                what you say and do is wonderful.

                However, let me make an analogy: if you were on a huge ocean liner in
                the North Atlantic and all of those with the ability to measure the
                direction of your progress said the ocean liner was veering toward the
                iceberg flows on one side, except those paid by the captain to say the
                liner is on course and a few coots known to be contrarians. Would you
                say, "Well, I can't tell who is right so I'll just make my bunk, go
                where I'm told, use the head, and not throw trash over the side."

                No, you'd dig deeper and see who's measurements are right and go speak
                to the captain if you become convinced that the liner is turning
                toward the icebergs.

                That's the problem with global warming. All indcations are that the
                rudder is turned but instead of turning toward icebergs, this big blue
                green ocean liner is turned toward boiling waters. It may take
                decades to get to the point that we break out the life rafts and row
                for cooler parts, because everyone knows ocean liners take a while to
                respond to the rudder. But Carbon Dioxide levels are higher than
                they've been in millions of years and with the growth in
                industrialization worldwide will grow immensely unless something is
                done, now.

                Another thing you may not understand is that the things you buy and
                conserve so well were all made with huge wastage of fossil fuels. GE
                Corporation is trying to cut green house gas emissions and they have
                started by walking into factories on Sunday nights and asking why is
                the compressed air system on when no one is here working? Why are the
                big lathes turning? Etc. They will cut greenhouse gas emissions right
                out of the gate while conserving energy too.

                albi


                --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <jerry5849@...> wrote:
                >
                > Folks,
                > It seems to me that (as with the bible) folks can march out any
                > number of experts to prove or disprove any theory. Global warming
                > is just such a theory.
                > Some scientists say the recent changes in our planet are illusions,
                > some say they are nothing more than a natural warming cycle such as
                > the planet has gone through many times before, some say this recent
                > warming trend has been advanced from its normal cycle by mankind's
                > use of fossil fuels, while still others say the sky is falling. How
                > do we decide which course to take?
                > Do we ignore all of this silliness about "so called" global
                > warming? Do we do nothing and hope for the best? Do we take
                > this "threat" seriously and do things immediately to minimize
                > possible damage to the earth? Do we go whole hog and abandon
                > industrialization completely and crawl back into the caves and begin
                > wearing animal skins? What is a good citizen to do?
                > For me, global warming is simply that, a theory. This does not mean
                > I wish to ignore environmental impacts, quite the reverse.
                > I endeavor to make positive impacts on the planet, or at least to
                > avoid making negative impacts. I try not to be wasteful; I don't
                > jump into my vehicle and drive to the market simply because I am out
                > of a single item; I keep my vehicle tuned up; I don't litter; I
                > don't flush hazardous chemicals down the drain to get rid of them.
                > I try to use products which are environmentally friendly. I plant a
                > tree every chance I get. The oxygen I breathe must come from
                > somewhere, so I figure why not plant that tree, or several of them
                > for that matter?
                > I believe it is our job to try and hand over a better world to our
                > descendents than the one we were given. We must remember that we do
                > not own the earth, the earth owns us. We are merely its caretakers.
                > As always,
                > Jerry
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In ticket2write@yahoogroups.com, "Caeser" <caeserpink@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Last night I went to see the movie "An Inconvenient Truth." The
                > > movie lays out the argument that global warming is a real
                > phenomenon
                > > created by human activities. Once you see the evidence it seems
                > > incontrovertible. There is information in the movie I have never
                > seen
                > > before. (not that I've ever bothered to research the issue)
                > >
                > > I, like most people thought there was some disagreement within the
                > > scientific community about this issue, it turns out that is
                > because the
                > > Exxon corporation has been funding a fake scientific group to feed
                > the
                > > media false information to create doubt in the public's mind. One
                > of
                > > the most ridiculous of these propaganda ploys can be seen on a TV
                > > commercial right now. It ends with the Orwellian tag line: "C02,
                > > some call it pollution, we call it life."
                > >
                > > It brings me back to my belief that our nation's number one
                > priority
                > > should be to find alternative energy resources. Many of our
                > nation's
                > > problems can be traced back to oil. Among those problems are
                > terrorism,
                > > wars in the Middle East, environmental problems, and high gas
                > prices
                > > that stifle the economy. I cannot feel we will ever have national
                > > security as long as our nation is dependent on Saudi Arabia for
                > vital
                > > resources. I just heard a X-CIA agent on NPR explaining that Iran
                > has a
                > > plan that if we bomb their nuclear facilities they will bomb oil
                > > facilities in various spots in the middle east with the aim of
                > bringing
                > > oil prices up to $300 per barrel, and thus bringing the US economy
                > to a
                > > standstill.
                > >
                >
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