Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:

Expand Messages
  • imperialdlptutoring
    Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will go ... Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a healthy mind (and, indeed,
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 9, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will go
      quiet, return to my practice, and allow the group/list to do the same:

      --- In tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com, "dorjeshonnu"
      <dorjeshonnu@...> wrote:
      > Kusum Lingpa only recognized him to be a pretty crazy guy. He seemed
      > to me to be mentally unbalanced although not harmful.

      Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a healthy mind
      (and, indeed, the benefits of meditation in terms of mental health are
      widely documented), not surprisingly, quite a few people suffering
      mental illness ARE drawn to Buddhism (in a genuine effort to take
      control of their minds and help themselves). So my personal view is
      that the compassionate action, so far as possible, is to welcome these
      individuals and applaud/assist them in their efforts to help themselves
      (albeit sometimes deluded and misguided) rather than condemn them.

      I also believe quite a few individuals suffering mental illness
      subscribe to online Buddhist lists like this one. So, since people
      suffering mental illness may be very vulnerable, and we cannot know
      what state of mind they are in when posting/reading online messages I,
      personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online
      when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals who,
      through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness. If anyone
      reading this post IS suffering mental illness (and there is no stigma
      in that) perhaps I could draw your attention to the Buddhist Wellness
      Group:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BuddhistWellnessGroup/

      ... which has an explicitly mental health focus and where all are
      welcomed (whether monks or not ;-) ).

      OK, I really WILL go quiet here and leave everyone in peace to get on
      with their practice!

      With metta,

      Mike
    • Steven Levey
      Dear Mike, Regarding this statement of yours: I personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online when communicating with/about these
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 17, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Mike,
           Regarding this statement of yours:
         "I personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online
        when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals who,
        through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness."
            I feel a couple of ways at once about this. First, let me say that I think your basic point is well taken. But I also think it serves well to have another explain a situation as best they can, (such as he who initially made us aware of the other's issues) without, as you mentioned, harsh overtones. That is, if they are really aware of something regarding a possible abuse of trust, of which others may not.
           Secondly, If it were true that the mental instability in question were really-karmically, not the fault of the disturbed individual, then by the law of our being and Karma, there would be no way for one to make corrections (even as presented by a practioner), if they were inclined to allow Buddhism to work its alchemy upon them through a new humility and Mindfullness. This is because we are all responsable for the state of our minds, even in so much that the causes seem inscrutable. So, if we are not the cause, then we can not be the effect. Therefore, it must be true-only if we are the cause can we be effective in making the change, which we first have to admit we need (no small task), and then admit that only through "self devised and self imposed efforts" can equalibrium be reinstated-by the one who at some point must have been the original cause in the resultant disequalibrium (even in the case where our Karma has had us incarnate in a body with an imperfect mind/brain relationship-it is still our Karma!). It is taught, and experience shows, that Cause and Effect is an exact linear relationship, although egoity wishes for only reasons it knows, to make it seem otherwise. Of course this is part of the problem of any resultant mental disequalibrium.
           There is a Tibetan text which says that "The mind is the great slayer of the Real. Let the disciple slay the slayer". The implication being that it is only though Buddha mind that the Monkey mind can be aligned. However, until then, the Monkey mind is, through attachment to external phenomena, making desicions based upon Mara. To varying degrees, this is the cause of delusion for all of us and to those most afflicted, it is also the basis of their "troubled/disturbed" state.
           None of the above is merely imperical. It is an understanding arrived at through Mindfullness and application to my own issues, as I have learned from those wiser than me. Does it require a "Professional" to present the antidote? Or, will a "wakefull" being do? Can there be both?-Sure. I think it aught to be said however, as Psong ka pa points out, as do others, that this human state is rare to attain, and per the Diamond Sutra, it is must be even further rare to have the Karma of the Three Jewels in ones life. To abuse such a combination seems very sad.
         
        Steve

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutoring@...>
        To: tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:00:26 AM
        Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:

        Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will go
        quiet, return to my practice, and allow the group/list to do the same:

        --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, "dorjeshonnu"
        <dorjeshonnu@ ...> wrote:

        > Kusum Lingpa only recognized him to be a pretty crazy guy. He seemed
        > to me to be mentally unbalanced although not harmful.

        Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a healthy mind
        (and, indeed, the benefits of meditation in terms of mental health are
        widely documented), not surprisingly, quite a few people suffering
        mental illness ARE drawn to Buddhism (in a genuine effort to take
        control of their minds and help themselves). So my personal view is
        that the compassionate action, so far as possible, is to welcome these
        individuals and applaud/assist them in their efforts to help themselves
        (albeit sometimes deluded and misguided) rather than condemn them.

        I also believe quite a few individuals suffering mental illness
        subscribe to online Buddhist lists like this one. So, since people
        suffering mental illness may be very vulnerable, and we cannot know
        what state of mind they are in when posting/reading online messages I,
        personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online
        when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals who,
        through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness. If anyone
        reading this post IS suffering mental illness (and there is no stigma
        in that) perhaps I could draw your attention to the Buddhist Wellness
        Group:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/BuddhistWe llnessGroup/

        ... which has an explicitly mental health focus and where all are
        welcomed (whether monks or not ;-) ).

        OK, I really WILL go quiet here and leave everyone in peace to get on
        with their practice!

        With metta,

        Mike




        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
      • imperialdlptutoring
        Thanks Steve! On the first point, I still hold that skillfullness and kind and gentle speech are important when dealing with disturbed and vulnerable people
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 19, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks Steve! On the first point, I still hold that skillfullness and
          kind and gentle speech are important when dealing with disturbed and
          vulnerable people and other 'difficult' situations in life. I take as
          my basic moral benchmark 'non harm' (in speech and action). Will my
          words (or actions) do harm to others?? If so, then either remain
          silent or rephrase them (more skillfully) in a form that will not do
          harm.

          On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and
          diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
          relating to/helping people suffering mental illness. But, as a
          relative Buddhist neophyte, I'm grateful for your explanation from
          the Buddhist perspective, and will take some time to try and digest
          this and it's implications!

          Metta,

          Mike (who really will try and go quiet here, having made his point...)

          --- In tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey
          <sallev1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Mike,
          > Regarding this statement of yours:
          > "I personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important
          online
          > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals
          who,
          > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness."
          > I feel a couple of ways at once about this. First, let me say
          that I think your basic point is well taken. But I also think it
          serves well to have another explain a situation as best they can,
          (such as he who initially made us aware of the other's issues)
          without, as you mentioned, harsh overtones. That is, if they are
          really aware of something regarding a possible abuse of trust, of
          which others may not.
          > Secondly, If it were true that the mental instability in
          question were really-karmically, not the fault of the disturbed
          individual, then by the law of our being and Karma, there would be no
          way for one to make corrections (even as presented by a practioner),
          if they were inclined to allow Buddhism to work its alchemy upon them
          through a new humility and Mindfullness. This is because we are all
          responsable for the state of our minds, even in so much that the
          causes seem inscrutable. So, if we are not the cause, then we can not
          be the effect. Therefore, it must be true-only if we are the cause
          can we be effective in making the change, which we first have to
          admit we need (no small task), and then admit that only through "self
          devised and self imposed efforts" can equalibrium be reinstated-by
          the one who at some point must have been the original cause in the
          resultant disequalibrium (even in the case where our Karma has had us
          incarnate in a body with
          > an imperfect mind/brain relationship-it is still our Karma!). It
          is taught, and experience shows, that Cause and Effect is an exact
          linear relationship, although egoity wishes for only reasons it
          knows, to make it seem otherwise. Of course this is part of the
          problem of any resultant mental disequalibrium.
          > There is a Tibetan text which says that "The mind is the great
          slayer of the Real. Let the disciple slay the slayer". The
          implication being that it is only though Buddha mind that the Monkey
          mind can be aligned. However, until then, the Monkey mind is, through
          attachment to external phenomena, making desicions based upon Mara.
          To varying degrees, this is the cause of delusion for all of us and
          to those most afflicted, it is also the basis of
          their "troubled/disturbed" state.
          > None of the above is merely imperical. It is an understanding
          arrived at through Mindfullness and application to my own issues, as
          I have learned from those wiser than me. Does it require
          a "Professional" to present the antidote? Or, will a "wakefull" being
          do? Can there be both?-Sure. I think it aught to be said however, as
          Psong ka pa points out, as do others, that this human state is rare
          to attain, and per the Diamond Sutra, it is must be even further rare
          to have the Karma of the Three Jewels in ones life. To abuse such a
          combination seems very sad.
          >
          > Steve
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutoring@...>
          > To: tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:00:26 AM
          > Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:
          >
          > Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will go
          > quiet, return to my practice, and allow the group/list to do the
          same:
          >
          > --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, "dorjeshonnu"
          > <dorjeshonnu@ ...> wrote:
          > > Kusum Lingpa only recognized him to be a pretty crazy guy. He
          seemed
          > > to me to be mentally unbalanced although not harmful.
          >
          > Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a healthy
          mind
          > (and, indeed, the benefits of meditation in terms of mental health
          are
          > widely documented), not surprisingly, quite a few people suffering
          > mental illness ARE drawn to Buddhism (in a genuine effort to take
          > control of their minds and help themselves). So my personal view is
          > that the compassionate action, so far as possible, is to welcome
          these
          > individuals and applaud/assist them in their efforts to help
          themselves
          > (albeit sometimes deluded and misguided) rather than condemn them.
          >
          > I also believe quite a few individuals suffering mental illness
          > subscribe to online Buddhist lists like this one. So, since people
          > suffering mental illness may be very vulnerable, and we cannot know
          > what state of mind they are in when posting/reading online messages
          I,
          > personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online
          > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals
          who,
          > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness. If
          anyone
          > reading this post IS suffering mental illness (and there is no
          stigma
          > in that) perhaps I could draw your attention to the Buddhist
          Wellness
          > Group:
          >
          > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/BuddhistWe llnessGroup/
          >
          > ... which has an explicitly mental health focus and where all are
          > welcomed (whether monks or not ;-) ).
          >
          > OK, I really WILL go quiet here and leave everyone in peace to get
          on
          > with their practice!
          >
          > With metta,
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          ______________
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          >
        • Steven Levey
          Mike, The key to this issue: On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 25, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Mike,
                 The key to this issue:

            "On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and
            diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
            relating to/helping people suffering mental illness."
             
            lies in the those conditions under which we subscribe upon taking state liscensure boards, and which I understand. There is no way in which one who takes such "vows" can keep his practice, both morally and legally, if they were to go back on their basis. However, you should be aware that regardless of these rules to which one has subscribed, unless the patient will take the advice given as a theraputics to be PRACTICED and APPLIED to themselves-by themselves, there will be no benefit for him (her). In this sense all theraputics, whether offered by a liscenced practioner (Psychiatrist or otherwise), or a Monk will not have any effect, unless the individual does their work. 
                I feel that we must not seperate the Dharama of the Teachings from our daily life, and since we subscribe to the Dharma, it must also hold true in the world of our daily round. If not, the Dharma for us is only another sectarian practice where we are looking to be saved, rather than save ourselves with the aide of the Truth as in the Four Noble Truths.
             
            Steve
            ----- Original Message ----
            From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutoring@...>
            To: tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:03:45 AM
            Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:

            Thanks Steve! On the first point, I still hold that skillfullness and
            kind and gentle speech are important when dealing with disturbed and
            vulnerable people and other 'difficult' situations in life. I take as
            my basic moral benchmark 'non harm' (in speech and action). Will my
            words (or actions) do harm to others?? If so, then either remain
            silent or rephrase them (more skillfully) in a form that will not do
            harm.

            On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and
            diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
            relating to/helping people suffering mental illness. But, as a
            relative Buddhist neophyte, I'm grateful for your explanation from
            the Buddhist perspective, and will take some time to try and digest
            this and it's implications!

            Metta,

            Mike (who really will try and go quiet here, having made his point...)

            --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, Steven Levey
            <sallev1@... > wrote:

            >
            > Dear Mike,
            > Regarding this statement of yours:
            > "I personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important
            online
            > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals
            who,
            > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness."
            > I feel a couple of ways at once about this. First, let me say
            that I think your basic point is well taken. But I also think it
            serves well to have another explain a situation as best they can,
            (such as he who initially made us aware of the other's issues)
            without, as you mentioned, harsh overtones. That is, if they are
            really aware of something regarding a possible abuse of trust, of
            which others may not.
            > Secondly, If it were true that the mental instability in
            question were really-karmically, not the fault of the disturbed
            individual, then by the law of our being and Karma, there would be no
            way for one to make corrections (even as presented by a practioner),
            if they were inclined to allow Buddhism to work its alchemy upon them
            through a new humility and Mindfullness. This is because we are all
            responsable for the state of our minds, even in so much that the
            causes seem inscrutable. So, if we are not the cause, then we can not
            be the effect. Therefore, it must be true-only if we are the cause
            can we be effective in making the change, which we first have to
            admit we need (no small task), and then admit that only through "self
            devised and self imposed efforts" can equalibrium be reinstated-by
            the one who at some point must have been the original cause in the
            resultant disequalibrium (even in the case where our Karma has had us
            incarnate in a body with
            > an imperfect mind/brain relationship- it is still our Karma!). It
            is taught, and experience shows, that Cause and Effect is an exact
            linear relationship, although egoity wishes for only reasons it
            knows, to make it seem otherwise. Of course this is part of the
            problem of any resultant mental disequalibrium.
            > There is a Tibetan text which says that "The mind is the great
            slayer of the Real. Let the disciple slay the slayer". The
            implication being that it is only though Buddha mind that the Monkey
            mind can be aligned. However, until then, the Monkey mind is, through
            attachment to external phenomena, making desicions based upon Mara.
            To varying degrees, this is the cause of delusion for all of us and
            to those most afflicted, it is also the basis of
            their "troubled/disturbed " state.
            > None of the above is merely
            imperical. It is an understanding
            arrived at through Mindfullness and application to my own issues, as
            I have learned from those wiser than me. Does it require
            a "Professional" to present the antidote? Or, will a "wakefull" being
            do? Can there be both?-Sure. I think it aught to be said however, as
            Psong ka pa points out, as do others, that this human state is rare
            to attain, and per the Diamond Sutra, it is must be even further rare
            to have the Karma of the Three Jewels in ones life. To abuse such a
            combination seems very sad.
            >
            > Steve
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutorin g@...>
            > To: tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:00:26 AM
            >
            Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:
            >
            > Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will go
            > quiet, return to my practice, and allow the group/list to do the
            same:
            >
            > --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, "dorjeshonnu"
            > <dorjeshonnu@ ...> wrote:
            > > Kusum Lingpa only recognized him to be a pretty crazy guy. He
            seemed
            > > to me to be mentally unbalanced although not harmful.
            >
            > Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a healthy
            mind
            > (and, indeed, the benefits of meditation in terms of mental health
            are
            > widely documented), not surprisingly, quite a few people suffering
            > mental illness ARE drawn to Buddhism (in a genuine effort to take
            > control of their minds and help themselves). So my personal view is
            > that the compassionate action, so far as
            possible, is to welcome
            these
            > individuals and applaud/assist them in their efforts to help
            themselves
            > (albeit sometimes deluded and misguided) rather than condemn them.
            >
            > I also believe quite a few individuals suffering mental illness
            > subscribe to online Buddhist lists like this one. So, since people
            > suffering mental illness may be very vulnerable, and we cannot know
            > what state of mind they are in when posting/reading online messages
            I,
            > personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important online
            > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed individuals
            who,
            > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness. If
            anyone
            > reading this post IS suffering mental illness (and there is no
            stigma
            > in that) perhaps I could draw your attention to the Buddhist
            Wellness
            > Group:
            >
            >
            href="http://groups./" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/BuddhistWe llnessGroup/
            >
            > ... which has an explicitly mental health focus and where all are
            > welcomed (whether monks or not ;-) ).
            >
            > OK, I really WILL go quiet here and leave everyone in peace to get
            on
            > with their practice!
            >
            > With metta,
            >
            > Mike
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            ____________ __
            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            > http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
            >




            Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
          • imperialdlptutoring
            Thanks, Steve- that makes sense. I just needed a bit of time for the penny to drop! Thanks! Mike ... state liscensure boards, and which I understand. There is
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 26, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks, Steve- that makes sense. I just needed a bit of time for the
              penny to drop!

              Thanks!

              Mike

              --- In tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey
              <sallev1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Mike,
              > The key to this issue:
              >
              > "On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and
              > diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
              > relating to/helping people suffering mental illness."
              >
              > lies in the those conditions under which we subscribe upon taking
              state liscensure boards, and which I understand. There is no way in
              which one who takes such "vows" can keep his practice, both morally
              and legally, if they were to go back on their basis. However, you
              should be aware that regardless of these rules to which one has
              subscribed, unless the patient will take the advice given as a
              theraputics to be PRACTICED and APPLIED to themselves-by themselves,
              there will be no benefit for him (her). In this sense all
              theraputics, whether offered by a liscenced practioner (Psychiatrist
              or otherwise), or a Monk will not have any effect, unless the
              individual does their work.
              > I feel that we must not seperate the Dharama of the Teachings
              from our daily life, and since we subscribe to the Dharma, it must
              also hold true in the world of our daily round. If not, the Dharma
              for us is only another sectarian practice where we are looking to be
              saved, rather than save ourselves with the aide of the Truth as in
              the Four Noble Truths.
              >
              > Steve
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutoring@...>
              > To: tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:03:45 AM
              > Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more Compassion ?:
              >
              > Thanks Steve! On the first point, I still hold that skillfullness
              and
              > kind and gentle speech are important when dealing with disturbed
              and
              > vulnerable people and other 'difficult' situations in life. I take
              as
              > my basic moral benchmark 'non harm' (in speech and action). Will my
              > words (or actions) do harm to others?? If so, then either remain
              > silent or rephrase them (more skillfully) in a form that will not
              do
              > harm.
              >
              > On the second point I think the issue of responsibility and
              > diminished responsibility is a complicated one legally and in
              > relating to/helping people suffering mental illness. But, as a
              > relative Buddhist neophyte, I'm grateful for your explanation from
              > the Buddhist perspective, and will take some time to try and digest
              > this and it's implications!
              >
              > Metta,
              >
              > Mike (who really will try and go quiet here, having made his
              point...)
              >
              > --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, Steven Levey
              > <sallev1@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Mike,
              > > Regarding this statement of yours:
              > > "I personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important
              > online
              > > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed
              individuals
              > who,
              > > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness."
              > > I feel a couple of ways at once about this. First, let me say
              > that I think your basic point is well taken. But I also think it
              > serves well to have another explain a situation as best they can,
              > (such as he who initially made us aware of the other's issues)
              > without, as you mentioned, harsh overtones. That is, if they are
              > really aware of something regarding a possible abuse of trust, of
              > which others may not.
              > > Secondly, If it were true that the mental instability in
              > question were really-karmically, not the fault of the disturbed
              > individual, then by the law of our being and Karma, there would be
              no
              > way for one to make corrections (even as presented by a
              practioner),
              > if they were inclined to allow Buddhism to work its alchemy upon
              them
              > through a new humility and Mindfullness. This is because we are all
              > responsable for the state of our minds, even in so much that the
              > causes seem inscrutable. So, if we are not the cause, then we can
              not
              > be the effect. Therefore, it must be true-only if we are the cause
              > can we be effective in making the change, which we first have to
              > admit we need (no small task), and then admit that only
              through "self
              > devised and self imposed efforts" can equalibrium be reinstated-by
              > the one who at some point must have been the original cause in the
              > resultant disequalibrium (even in the case where our Karma has had
              us
              > incarnate in a body with
              > > an imperfect mind/brain relationship- it is still our Karma!). It
              > is taught, and experience shows, that Cause and Effect is an exact
              > linear relationship, although egoity wishes for only reasons it
              > knows, to make it seem otherwise. Of course this is part of the
              > problem of any resultant mental disequalibrium.
              > > There is a Tibetan text which says that "The mind is the great
              > slayer of the Real. Let the disciple slay the slayer". The
              > implication being that it is only though Buddha mind that the
              Monkey
              > mind can be aligned. However, until then, the Monkey mind is,
              through
              > attachment to external phenomena, making desicions based upon Mara.
              > To varying degrees, this is the cause of delusion for all of us and
              > to those most afflicted, it is also the basis of
              > their "troubled/disturbed " state.
              > > None of the above is merely imperical. It is an understanding
              > arrived at through Mindfullness and application to my own issues,
              as
              > I have learned from those wiser than me. Does it require
              > a "Professional" to present the antidote? Or, will a "wakefull"
              being
              > do? Can there be both?-Sure. I think it aught to be said however,
              as
              > Psong ka pa points out, as do others, that this human state is rare
              > to attain, and per the Diamond Sutra, it is must be even further
              rare
              > to have the Karma of the Three Jewels in ones life. To abuse such a
              > combination seems very sad.
              > >
              > > Steve
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: imperialdlptutoring <imperialdlptutorin g@...>
              > > To: tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com
              > > Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:00:26 AM
              > > Subject: [TBG] Re: How can we as Buddhist develop more
              Compassion ?:
              > >
              > > Just picking up on one (important) point and then I really will
              go
              > > quiet, return to my practice, and allow the group/list to do the
              > same:
              > >
              > > --- In tibetanbuddhistgrou p@yahoogroups. com, "dorjeshonnu"
              > > <dorjeshonnu@ ...> wrote:
              > > > Kusum Lingpa only recognized him to be a pretty crazy guy. He
              > seemed
              > > > to me to be mentally unbalanced although not harmful.
              > >
              > > Since Buddhism IS par excellence about sanity and having a
              healthy
              > mind
              > > (and, indeed, the benefits of meditation in terms of mental
              health
              > are
              > > widely documented), not surprisingly, quite a few people
              suffering
              > > mental illness ARE drawn to Buddhism (in a genuine effort to take
              > > control of their minds and help themselves). So my personal view
              is
              > > that the compassionate action, so far as possible, is to welcome
              > these
              > > individuals and applaud/assist them in their efforts to help
              > themselves
              > > (albeit sometimes deluded and misguided) rather than condemn
              them.
              > >
              > > I also believe quite a few individuals suffering mental illness
              > > subscribe to online Buddhist lists like this one. So, since
              people
              > > suffering mental illness may be very vulnerable, and we cannot
              know
              > > what state of mind they are in when posting/reading online
              messages
              > I,
              > > personally, believe kind and gentle speech is VERY important
              online
              > > when communicating with/about these troubled/disturbed
              individuals
              > who,
              > > through no fault of their own, are suffering mental illness. If
              > anyone
              > > reading this post IS suffering mental illness (and there is no
              > stigma
              > > in that) perhaps I could draw your attention to the Buddhist
              > Wellness
              > > Group:
              > >
              > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/BuddhistWe llnessGroup/
              > >
              > > ... which has an explicitly mental health focus and where all are
              > > welcomed (whether monks or not ;-) ).
              > >
              > > OK, I really WILL go quiet here and leave everyone in peace to
              get
              > on
              > > with their practice!
              > >
              > > With metta,
              > >
              > > Mike
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              > ____________ __
              > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
              > > http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ______________________________________________________________________
              ______________
              > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
              > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.