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Re: [TBG] offering a waterbowl to a guru

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  • tom talylor
    Just a silly idea, but you could freeze the water in the bowl, and then offer it to your guru. I think this would work just fine, a little different, but if
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 13, 2007
      Just a silly idea, but you could freeze the water in
      the bowl, and then offer it to your guru. I think this
      would work just fine, a little different, but if the
      intention is present, I think it would be great.

      Tom

      --- ardhyryadi@... wrote:

      > Dear all,
      >
      > In some tradition, mine is from liberation in your
      > hand by Pabongkha Rinpoche, it is said not to offer
      > an empty waterbowl to a guru or Buddha, and also not
      > overflowing it with water, or fill in too little
      > water. How if we want to offer the waterbowl itself?
      > from the view of Gelug tradition, would that create
      > positive causes or not? Should we offer an empty new
      > waterbowl, or fill it with water?
      >
      > Rgds
      >
      > Ardhy Ryadi
      > www.geocities.com/thelamrimchenmo
      >




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    • Sherab Gyatso
      This discussion is turning from sincere to silly. As is stated in the 1st line of the reply. So, why not guard one self from that? You don t need to offer
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 13, 2007
        This discussion is turning from sincere to silly. As is stated in the 1st
        line of the reply. So, why not guard one self from that?

        You don't need to offer anything in any special way, you only do offering in
        order to gain merit, no one needs your offering, Buddha does not, Guru does
        not, Guru inseparable from Buddha does not.
        Offering arranged on the altar are all representations of our inner attitude
        of offering, they are outward manifestations of our practice, in a way of
        meager display, they are a meditation to. So many practitioners are able to
        "open altar" in the morning and go through motions or organizing offerings
        there and then "close altar" in the evening and clean it up.

        In regards to particulars of how to pour water, how much of it, what should
        be the distance to the rim of the bowl, how far bowls should be from one
        another and how straight the line of them should be, all these are good and
        important particulars. However mental attitude and thoughts of not holding
        back, recognizing preciousness of liberating teachings and offering all that
        can possibly be offered, that is the offering and if attempted can be done
        without bowl, water or even altar. Because Buddhas permeate all ten
        directions at all times. And understanding that Lama is realized in a way to
        embody Buddha's Speech and Mind is a very helpful unselfish thought.

        By the way, I more or less do not believe that there is a special lineage
        for offering bows of water on altar as in Gelug, or Sakya, or Kagyu, or
        Nyingma in particular. Way offerings are arranged is more cultural in a way
        of being particular to India - Tibet, here on this general level, with the
        eight offerings coming from Indian tradition and substitution of the
        particular offerings with rice, any grain, any precious substance or water
        to be understood as a possibility, because of as already mentioned symbolic
        nature of the ceremony. Tibet as a source of all main rivers of Asia is
        known as a place with most amazing water and flowers, so in a way there,
        water is said to be of such a quality that it becomes very precious
        substance, just because of it's taste and purity.

        Can put anything in the bowl, a cookie, a flower, a bit of water and offer
        it up, mental attitude is of importance and if you are in some, any way not
        happy as to how precisely you are performing this, then meditate on how many
        sentient beings never encounter liberating Dharma, and never even understand
        about mental attitude of offering to the three jewels.

        --------------------------------------
        Sherab Gyatso
        sherabgyatso@...
        http://360.yahoo.com/gurupemasiddhihum
        --------------------------------------


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: tom talylor
        To: tibetanbuddhistgroup@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [TBG] offering a waterbowl to a guru


        Just a silly idea, but you could freeze the water in
        the bowl, and then offer it to your guru. I think this
        would work just fine, a little different, but if the
        intention is present, I think it would be great.

        Tom

        --- ardhyryadi@... wrote:

        > Dear all,
        >
        > In some tradition, mine is from liberation in your
        > hand by Pabongkha Rinpoche, it is said not to offer
        > an empty waterbowl to a guru or Buddha, and also not
        > overflowing it with water, or fill in too little
        > water. How if we want to offer the waterbowl itself?
        > from the view of Gelug tradition, would that create
        > positive causes or not? Should we offer an empty new
        > waterbowl, or fill it with water?
        >
        > Rgds
        >
        > Ardhy Ryadi
        > www.geocities.com/thelamrimchenmo
      • ardhyryadi@gmail.com
        Actually, a Rinpoche from gomang monastery will come to our city. My friend is busy with thinking of what to offer, he came with an idea of buying a set of
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 15, 2007
          Actually, a Rinpoche from gomang monastery will come to our city. My friend is busy with thinking of what to offer, he came with an idea of buying a set of waterbowl, and offer the bowl set, still wrapped in a box, to the Rinpoche. I said that offering empty bowl is not a good cause for accumulating merit. And i refer to the book "liberation in our hand" , but my friend insist that he offers the new waterbowl sincerely, and that would be just fine.
           
          I refer to  the story of Milarepa who offer empty copper pan to Marpa which is certainly not an auspicious offering. Although Milarepa is so sincere in offering the empty copper pan, Milarepa has to suffer lack of food during his meditation.
           
          If mental attitude would suffice in itself for offering empty waterbowl, then i'd tell him so.
           
          Rgds
           
          Ardhy
           
           
           

          Re: offering a waterbowl to a guru

          Posted by: "Sherab Gyatso" sherabgyatso@...   gurupemasiddhihum

          Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:05 pm (PST)

          This discussion is turning from sincere to silly. As is stated in the 1st
          line of the reply. So, why not guard one self from that?

          You don't need to offer anything in any special way, you only do offering in
          order to gain merit, no one needs your offering, Buddha does not, Guru does
          not, Guru inseparable from Buddha does not.
          Offering arranged on the altar are all representations of our inner attitude
          of offering, they are outward manifestations of our practice, in a way of
          meager display, they are a meditation to. So many practitioners are able to
          "open altar" in the morning and go through motions or organizing offerings
          there and then "close altar" in the evening and clean it up.

          In regards to particulars of how to pour water, how much of it, what should
          be the distance to the rim of the bowl, how far bowls should be from one
          another and how straight the line of them should be, all these are good and
          important particulars. However mental attitude and thoughts of not holding
          back, recognizing preciousness of liberating teachings and offering all that
          can possibly be offered, that is the offering and if attempted can be done
          without bowl, water or even altar. Because Buddhas permeate all ten
          directions at all times. And understanding that Lama is realized in a way to
          embody Buddha's Speech and Mind is a very helpful unselfish thought.

          By the way, I more or less do not believe that there is a special lineage
          for offering bows of water on altar as in Gelug, or Sakya, or Kagyu, or
          Nyingma in particular. Way offerings are arranged is more cultural in a way
          of being particular to India - Tibet, here on this general level, with the
          eight offerings coming from Indian tradition and substitution of the
          particular offerings with rice, any grain, any precious substance or water
          to be understood as a possibility, because of as already mentioned symbolic
          nature of the ceremony. Tibet as a source of all main rivers of Asia is
          known as a place with most amazing water and flowers, so in a way there,
          water is said to be of such a quality that it becomes very precious
          substance, just because of it's taste and purity.

          Can put anything in the bowl, a cookie, a flower, a bit of water and offer
          it up, mental attitude is of importance and if you are in some, any way not
          happy as to how precisely you are performing this, then meditate on how many
          sentient beings never encounter liberating Dharma, and never even understand
          about mental attitude of offering to the three jewels.

          ------------ --------- --------- --------
          Sherab Gyatso
          sherabgyatso@ gmail.com
          http://360.yahoo. com/gurupemasidd hihum
        • David S.
          Dear Friends I m going to be giving a class on Tibetan Buddhist meditation at Golden Bridge Yoga in LA for five weeks. If you live in the area I would love if
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 16, 2007
            Tibetan Buddhist Meditation Class at Golden Bridge Yoga, L
            Dear Friends

            I'm going to be giving a class on Tibetan Buddhist meditation at Golden Bridge Yoga in LA for five weeks.
            If you live in the area I would love if you could make it down!

            It's going to be open to all...no previous knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism or meditation required...and you don't need to attend the first one to come to any of the rest. Each class can stand on its own.

            Newcomers or those with years of practice under their belt will all find something useful..see below for a more detailed description.

            Feel free to send this along to anyone you think might benefit from it.

            Thanks!

            David

            Tuesdays, March 20 - April 17, 2007 7:30 - 9:00 pm
            Discover Your Mind! Tibetan Buddhist Meditation
            Using Tibetan Buddhist Meditation techniques and practices, as well as practices based on the Tibetan philosophical views of Ultimate and Relative reality, this course will give the student practical experience in exploring their mind and discovering its true nature. The class is designed to provide useful tools for:
            -new meditators - those with no experience in meditation at all
            -intermediate meditators - those who would like to get more comfortable with their practice
            -experienced meditators - those who want to refine their inner work
            -meditators who have not yet explored Tibetan Buddhist meditation

            Tibetan Buddhist Meditation
            The purpose of meditation in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is to tame the mind through gaining recognition of its true nature. The broad range of techniques found in the Tibetan tradition provide many different angles of approach to the mind and awareness. Through these the practitioner can come to a clear understanding of what the mind is, how it works and how to 'tame' it. In this class particular attention will be paid to familiarizing oneself with the practices of Shi Nay (Calm Abiding) and Lhag Tong (Penetrating Insight) and uniting them into a single practice of pure presence.

            Other practices such as Sem Kyed (Generating Altruistic Intention), Dza Tra (Recitation of Mantra), Tong Len (Giving and Receiving), and Tro Du (Radiating and Gathering) will be employed as a support to the practice of pure presence. All of these will be explained and practiced together as a group.

            The class will be given through introductory lectures, stories, group practice and Q&A.
            For more information contact Golden Bridge Yoga (http://www.goldenbridgeyoga.com)
            or David Scharff at david@...
            Price $15

            -- 
            
            ********************************************************************************
            "in the experience of yogins who do not perceive things dualistically, the fact that things manifest without truly existing is so amazing, they burst out in laughter"
            --Longchenpa. (from The Choying Dzod)
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