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Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA

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  • Ernest Pergrem
    Dan: From TI Expansion Box specifications: Green: +5V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage Black: Ground Yellow: -12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage Brown: +12V 3-T
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
      Dan:
      From TI Expansion Box specifications:
      Green: +5V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
      Black: Ground
      Yellow: -12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
      Brown: +12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage

      Note: The Bunyard manual defines them as Raw DC and specifies Brown as
      -12V/-5V.

      Ernie
    • Dan O'Quinn
      thanks, Ernie Dan ... From: Ernest Pergrem To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a]
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
        thanks, Ernie

        Dan
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ernest Pergrem <epergrem@...>
        To: <ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:09 AM
        Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA


        > Dan:
        > From TI Expansion Box specifications:
        > Green: +5V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
        > Black: Ground
        > Yellow: -12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
        > Brown: +12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
        >
        > Note: The Bunyard manual defines them as Raw DC and specifies Brown as
        > -12V/-5V.
        >
        > Ernie
        >
        >
        > For users/owners of TI-99/4A and compatibles everywhere!
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: ti99-4a@...
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        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ti99-4a-unsubscribe@...
        >
      • epergrem@core.com
        Dan Sorry, still had sleep in my eyes. The line Note: The Bunyard manual defines them as Raw DC and specifies Brown as -12V/-5V should have read Yellow
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
          Dan
          Sorry, still had sleep in my eyes. The line "Note: The Bunyard manual
          defines them as Raw DC and specifies Brown as -12V/-5V" should have
          read "Yellow" which correctly coincides with TI's -12V..
          Ernie


          > > Note: The Bunyard manual defines them as Raw DC and specifies
          Brown as
          > > -12V/-5V.
        • Richard Bell
          Just one more piece of P-Box trivia. If you measure the output of the power supply in these box s you will find the actual measurement can vary quit a bit
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
            Just one more piece of P-Box trivia. If you measure the output of the
            power supply in these box's you will find the actual measurement can vary
            quit a bit between box's (power supplies) This sort of explains why the
            voltage regulators get so hot in some box's as they are working real hard.
          • Barry M Peterson
            On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:23:36 -0500 (EST) Richard Bell ... vary ... hard. Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I ve measured +21 to
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
              On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:23:36 -0500 (EST) Richard Bell <rbell@...>
              writes:
              > Just one more piece of P-Box trivia. If you measure the output of the
              > power supply in these box's you will find the actual measurement can
              vary
              > quit a bit between box's (power supplies) This sort of explains why the
              > voltage regulators get so hot in some box's as they are working real
              hard.

              Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I've measured +21 to +24
              volts.


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            • Paolo Bagnaresi
              On February 01, 2001, Barry M Peterson wrote: ... Was that with a load? Paolo
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
                On February 01, 2001, Barry M Peterson wrote:

                <snip>
                > Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I've measured +21 to +24
                > volts.

                Was that with a load?

                Paolo
              • TED
                Yes! ... From: Paolo Bagnaresi To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
                  Yes!

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Paolo Bagnaresi <paolo_bagnaresi@...>
                  To: <ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:02 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA


                  > On February 01, 2001, Barry M Peterson wrote:
                  >
                  > <snip>
                  > > Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I've measured +21 to +24
                  > > volts.
                  >
                  > Was that with a load?
                  >
                  > Paolo
                  >
                  >
                  > For users/owners of TI-99/4A and compatibles everywhere!
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: ti99-4a@...
                  >
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ti99-4a-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                • Barry M Peterson
                  On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 02:02:47 +0100 Paolo Bagnaresi ... +24 ... Yes: Disk controller, 32KB, RS-232 & Interface cards.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 1, 2001
                    On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 02:02:47 +0100 "Paolo Bagnaresi"
                    <paolo_bagnaresi@...> writes:
                    > On February 01, 2001, Barry M Peterson wrote:
                    >
                    > <snip>
                    > > Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I've measured +21 to
                    +24
                    > > volts.
                    >
                    > Was that with a load?

                    Yes: Disk controller, 32KB, RS-232 & Interface cards.


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                  • Yates, Ben
                    Try it with an HFDC and p-code... You know, the ASCSI board runs real cool... ... From: Barry M Peterson [mailto:barry.peterson@juno.com] Sent: Friday,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                      Try it with an HFDC and p-code... You know, the ASCSI board runs real
                      cool...

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Barry M Peterson [mailto:barry.peterson@...]
                      Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:22 AM
                      To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA


                      On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 02:02:47 +0100 "Paolo Bagnaresi"
                      <paolo_bagnaresi@...> writes:
                      > On February 01, 2001, Barry M Peterson wrote:
                      >
                      > <snip>
                      > > Right, the TI book says +8v and +16, but I know I've measured +21 to
                      +24
                      > > volts.
                      >
                      > Was that with a load?

                      Yes: Disk controller, 32KB, RS-232 & Interface cards.


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                    • Richard Bell
                      Ben, all the SNUG cards run very cool as compared to the other cards (especially MYARC) Maybe Michael Becker will see this thread and elaborate a little on how
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                        Ben, all the SNUG cards run very cool as compared to the other cards
                        (especially MYARC) Maybe Michael Becker will see this thread and elaborate
                        a little on how his designs accomplish this. (If you notice, the heat sink
                        on the SNUG cards is a beauty but I'm sure that isn't tha sole
                        explanation.) How about it Michael, I'm sure we would like to hear a
                        little about your TI specific power supply idea's and theories. :-)
                      • Yates, Ben
                        Well, for one, the ASCSI is the most beautiful card I have ever seen (I can t say about the other SCSI card, never seen it). The HFDC layout has A LOT of
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                          Well, for one, the ASCSI is the most beautiful card I have ever seen (I
                          can't say about the other SCSI card, never seen it).
                          The HFDC layout has A LOT of traces going every which way - perhaps it was
                          hand-designed and drawn.
                          The ASCSI appears professionally laid-out, and perhaps takes advantage of
                          newer technology that wasn't available in the mid-80s.
                          If the same techniques were applied or were available for the HFDC, perhaps
                          overheating would not have been a problem.
                          Plus, something not to overlook, the ASCSI design was simplified in that it
                          doesn't try to do all things, like trying to be a floppy controller...
                        • Paolo Bagnaresi
                          Ah, Myarc cards! Very poorly designed, as far as heat dissipation is concerned. I remember I had to discard the plastic case and replace all the heat sinks
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                            Ah, Myarc cards! Very poorly designed, as far as heat dissipation is
                            concerned. I remember I had to discard the plastic case and replace all
                            the heat sinks provided by Myarc with heavy aluminum bars, that were as
                            long as they could possibly be (all the length of the card). In fact,
                            after a month or so the pc board would turn from brilliant green to dark
                            brown, because of the poor cooling system. With the additional cooling I
                            provided, I never burned any Myarc card.
                            On the other hand, TI metal case, fastened to the 780x VR, prove to be an
                            excellent heat sink.

                            Paolo

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Richard Bell" <rbell@...>
                            To: <ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:06 PM
                            Subject: RE: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA


                            > Ben, all the SNUG cards run very cool as compared to the other cards
                            > (especially MYARC) Maybe Michael Becker will see this thread and
                            elaborate
                            > a little on how his designs accomplish this. (If you notice, the heat
                            sink
                            > on the SNUG cards is a beauty but I'm sure that isn't tha sole
                            > explanation.) How about it Michael, I'm sure we would like to hear a
                            > little about your TI specific power supply idea's and theories. :-)
                          • rmcarmany@aol.com
                            I have an HFDC with floppy access removed--I wonder if it runs cooler than a normal one? Bob Carmany [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                              I have an HFDC with floppy access removed--I wonder if it runs cooler than a
                              normal one?

                              Bob Carmany


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tarsi
                              I am, as they say, new to this field. I have one TI99 and just bought another one on Ebay. My current one is just the standard, power cord, RF converter, etc.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                                I am, as they say, new to this field.

                                I have one TI99 and just bought another one on Ebay. My current one is
                                just the standard, power cord, RF converter, etc. The second has the
                                speech synth with it.

                                Can anyone tell me a bit about the speech synth module? What software I'll
                                need to do something with it, hardware construction of it, etc?

                                Anything/everything as far as information on this is wonderful.

                                Thanks!

                                Nathan
                                210
                              • Yates, Ben
                                I added one of those temperature devices that you could set to turn on a fan at a set temp. I had it set to 90 deg, but after about 0.5 hour, it would pass 90,
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                                  I added one of those temperature devices that you could set to turn on a fan
                                  at a set temp. I had it set to 90 deg, but after about 0.5 hour, it would
                                  pass 90, and hover around 107...
                                  I had the original p-box fan, one in front of the HFDC blowing on it
                                  (between the LED front and the card cage), one behind blowing on it, biggest
                                  heat sinks I could find (should've used a metal bar, hey Paolo?), and
                                  sometimes took the lid off and had a fan blowing into the box.
                                  My HFDC was first bare, later I mounted the backside to a TI Metal case...
                                  for the heat sinking ability.


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: rmcarmany@... [mailto:rmcarmany@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 1:42 PM
                                  To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA


                                  I have an HFDC with floppy access removed--I wonder if it runs cooler than a

                                  normal one?

                                  Bob Carmany
                                • rmcarmany@aol.com
                                  Another solution is to use a portion of a sheet of aluminum which is bent up and them back over the card (about 1/4 above it) to dissipate the heat. I have
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 2, 2001
                                    Another solution is to use a portion of a sheet of aluminum which is bent up
                                    and them back over the card (about 1/4" above it) to dissipate the heat. I
                                    have used this method with the Quest RAMdisks with great success. The area of
                                    the extended surface is about 5 square inches but you could make it bigger if
                                    needed.
                                    BTW, if you are looking for a cooling fan for your hard drives, JAMECO has a
                                    3-1/2" fan that fits very nicely into and unused bay in a tower power supply.
                                    I have two half height 5-1/2" drives installed with the fan just below them
                                    and it really cools the two drives.

                                    Bob Carmany


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Michael Becker
                                    all our design are HANDMADE too! The difference is: either you have the knowledge how to do things or you have not.... (thanks to my good friend Juergen
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 4, 2001
                                      all our design are HANDMADE too! The difference is: either you have the
                                      knowledge how to do things or you have not....


                                      (thanks to my good friend Juergen Stelter who made all these wonderfull layouts)

                                      ;-)))

                                      Michael





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                                      cc: (bcc: Michael Becker/DE/Adtranz)

                                      Security Level:? Internal

                                      Subject: RE: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA



                                      Well, for one, the ASCSI is the most beautiful card I have ever seen (I
                                      can't say about the other SCSI card, never seen it).
                                      The HFDC layout has A LOT of traces going every which way - perhaps it was
                                      hand-designed and drawn.
                                      The ASCSI appears professionally laid-out, and perhaps takes advantage of
                                      newer technology that wasn't available in the mid-80s.
                                      If the same techniques were applied or were available for the HFDC, perhaps
                                      overheating would not have been a problem.
                                      Plus, something not to overlook, the ASCSI design was simplified in that it
                                      doesn't try to do all things, like trying to be a floppy controller...

                                      For users/owners of TI-99/4A and compatibles everywhere!

                                      To Post a message, send it to: ti99-4a@...

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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Michael Becker
                                      most of the boxes have: unregulated 12-16V for 5V-regulators. unbregulated 20-26V for both 12 V regulators. our europen boxes have the chance to switch
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 4, 2001
                                        most of the boxes have:

                                        unregulated 12-16V for 5V-regulators.
                                        unbregulated 20-26V for both 12 V regulators. our europen boxes have the chance
                                        to switch down...we can select 240V-AC instead of 220 and this will decrease the
                                        secondary voltages.

                                        I have calculated the heat for every board (Yes, this is possible!) there are
                                        the following rules:

                                        never have above 90 degree celsius on the heat-sink, because above 110 degree
                                        the pcb will become dark and the soldering become instable (long-time effect!)
                                        {MYARC-effect} {VBG}

                                        every heat sink has a specific thrmal resistance, if you know the current
                                        through the regulator, you can calculate the power by
                                        current*unregulated-regulated (=voltage dropout) and the overheatiing is this
                                        result*thermal-resistance of the heatsink.

                                        example:

                                        current for the card: 500mA
                                        voltage for 5V: unregulated 16V
                                        drop-out = 16-5=11V
                                        Power: 11V*0,5Amps=5,5Watts(!!!)

                                        thermal resistance for a heatsink (expample) 8K/W (means 8Kelvin or degree per
                                        Watt), taken from its datasheet.

                                        == overtemp of (5,5W * 8K)/W = 44degree (or Kelvin)

                                        so the result for the temp is (your normal temp = 25 degree ) 25degree plus 44
                                        degree = 69 degree. okay for this.

                                        if the current is higher or the heatsink has a higher thermal resistance, this
                                        will increase the absolute temp!

                                        Ex: current is 1 Amp (SGCPU!!!) ......heyyy!!!! calculate yourself!!!!

                                        BTW: one trick to reduce the temp is: divide the temp between a power-resistor
                                        and the regulator...the green resistors on SNUG boards, some boards have the
                                        space but not inserted. The only card I made a mistake (too small heatsink) was
                                        the EVPC, there is the resistor added later.

                                        ;-))))

                                        Michael






                                        (Embedded Ernest Pergrem <epergrem@...>
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                                        To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                                        cc: (bcc: Michael Becker/DE/Adtranz)

                                        Security Level:? Internal

                                        Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA



                                        Dan:
                                        From TI Expansion Box specifications:
                                        Green: +5V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
                                        Black: Ground
                                        Yellow: -12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage
                                        Brown: +12V 3-T Regulated Supply Voltage

                                        Note: The Bunyard manual defines them as Raw DC and specifies Brown as
                                        -12V/-5V.

                                        Ernie


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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Paolo Bagnaresi
                                        On February 05, 2001, Michael Becker wrote: ... ... power-resistor ... the ... heatsink) was ... Nice trick, Michael. It s good to know. Thanks a
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                          On February 05, 2001, Michael Becker wrote:

                                          <snip>
                                          > I have calculated the heat for every board (Yes, this is possible!)
                                          <snip>
                                          > BTW: one trick to reduce the temp is: divide the temp between a
                                          power-resistor
                                          > and the regulator...the green resistors on SNUG boards, some boards have
                                          the
                                          > space but not inserted. The only card I made a mistake (too small
                                          heatsink) was
                                          > the EVPC, there is the resistor added later.
                                          >

                                          Nice trick, Michael. It's good to know. Thanks a lot.


                                          Paolo
                                        • Michael Becker
                                          you only have to install a series resistor, calculated not to fall below the minimum-input-voltage of the regulator! The voltage drop of the resristor depends
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                            you only have to install a series resistor, calculated not to fall below the
                                            minimum-input-voltage of the regulator! The voltage drop of the resristor
                                            depends from the current, so there are values from 0,2 to 2,7 Ohms possible.
                                            I've tried it on the first board, because the resistor MUST NOT heat over 100
                                            degree too! So I have two resistors in some boards.....

                                            ;-)

                                            Michael




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                                            To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                                            cc: (bcc: Michael Becker/DE/Adtranz)

                                            Security Level:? Internal

                                            Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA



                                            On February 05, 2001, Michael Becker wrote:

                                            <snip>
                                            > I have calculated the heat for every board (Yes, this is possible!)
                                            <snip>
                                            > BTW: one trick to reduce the temp is: divide the temp between a
                                            power-resistor
                                            > and the regulator...the green resistors on SNUG boards, some boards have
                                            the
                                            > space but not inserted. The only card I made a mistake (too small
                                            heatsink) was
                                            > the EVPC, there is the resistor added later.
                                            >

                                            Nice trick, Michael. It's good to know. Thanks a lot.


                                            Paolo



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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • eicher@delphi.com
                                            Michael, To bad Myarc didn t know about this as their cards seem to be the worst offenders. I think their 512K card was the worse! d.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                              Michael,
                                              To bad Myarc didn't know about this as their cards seem to be the worst
                                              offenders. I think their 512K card was the worse!

                                              d.
                                            • Michael Becker
                                              developer s basics!!!! I had some very good teachers in school and university (thanks to all..), most of new hardware developers do not know the simplest
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                                developer's basics!!!! I had some very good teachers in school and university
                                                (thanks to all..), most of new hardware developers do not know the simplest
                                                basics :-(((

                                                BTW: because I started my business at a company that sells railway systems, I
                                                had to calculate all, no try-and-error-method....that the big difference between
                                                consumer and industrial electronics.

                                                :-)

                                                Michael
                                                The reason why the SNUG cards are so "stable" is I used the same strong rules
                                                for them as for the cards for my business..





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                                                To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                                                cc: (bcc: Michael Becker/DE/Adtranz)

                                                Security Level:? Internal

                                                Subject: Re: [ti-99/4a] TI PeBox TRIVIA




                                                Michael,
                                                To bad Myarc didn't know about this as their cards seem to be the worst
                                                offenders. I think their 512K card was the worse!

                                                d.

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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • rmcarmany@aol.com
                                                A large aluminum heat sink made out of sheet aluminum works well with them also. It dissipates heat well and fits neatly in the P-Box slot. You do have to
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                                  A large aluminum heat sink made out of sheet aluminum works well with them
                                                  also. It dissipates heat well and fits neatly in the P-Box slot. You do have
                                                  to remove the clamshell, though and use the bare card--no problem with that!

                                                  Bob Carmany


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Richard Bell
                                                  I have installed a SNUG hrd-16 in my geneve so that I can boot from it instead of a floppy. The card is set for CRU 1400 when I use Form3meg to format the card
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Feb 5, 2001
                                                    I have installed a SNUG hrd-16 in my geneve so that I can boot from it
                                                    instead of a floppy. The card is set for CRU 1400 when I use Form3meg to
                                                    format the card it finds a 16 bit ram disk at 1401 and formats it then
                                                    copies the SYSTEM/SYS to it. When I do a dir, I get used 520 free 11760
                                                    which means 12280 total sectors. This seems to be only 1.5 meg, the card
                                                    actually has 3meg on board, where is the other 1.5 meg????????
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