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Re: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica

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  • ti99_forever
    The single density limitation is the controller. If they only work as single-sided, they only have one head on the drive instead of two. ... From: wmaalouli
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2010
      The single density limitation is the controller. If they only work as single-sided, they only have one head on the drive instead of two.

      --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...> wrote:

      From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...>
      Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
      To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 9:44 AM

      Hi.

      I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?

      Walid



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    • Gregg Eshelman
      ... TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They ll work in any system that uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the drive number
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 3, 2010
        --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...> wrote:

        > From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...>
        > Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
        > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 6:44 AM
        > Hi.
        >
        > I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives
        > pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The
        > drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should
        > match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way
        > or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?

        TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They'll work in any system that uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the drive number jumpers and termination resistors for whichever system you're connecting them to.

        Many of those drives used a shunt pack instead of jumpers to set the drive number. The shunts in the top of the DIP would be cut or punched to break them. It's better to just pull the pack and bend legs out since you can't get those shunt packs now. In some cases I just bent some staples to make jumpers for the shunt socket.

        Single or double density is controlled by the controller. Single or double sided is whether or not the drive has two heads.

        Most single sided floppy drives used exactly the same electronics as their double sided versions, just with a pressure pad in place of the second head. If you had the test and alignment equipment you could upgrade single sided drives to double sided by taking parts from bad double sided drives.

        I've seen one really old single sided drive that did not have the chips and connectors for the second head. It was also a 35 track drive. It was connected to an original TI floppy controller which formatted it to 35 track, single density. Couldn't fit very much on such a disk. ;)
      • wmaalouli
        Thanks for the info :) Walid
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 3, 2010
          Thanks for the info :)

          Walid

          --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...> wrote:
          >
          > > From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...>
          > > Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
          > > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 6:44 AM
          > > Hi.
          > >
          > > I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives
          > > pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The
          > > drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should
          > > match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way
          > > or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?
          >
          > TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They'll work in any system that uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the drive number jumpers and termination resistors for whichever system you're connecting them to.
          >
          > Many of those drives used a shunt pack instead of jumpers to set the drive number. The shunts in the top of the DIP would be cut or punched to break them. It's better to just pull the pack and bend legs out since you can't get those shunt packs now. In some cases I just bent some staples to make jumpers for the shunt socket.
          >
          > Single or double density is controlled by the controller. Single or double sided is whether or not the drive has two heads.
          >
          > Most single sided floppy drives used exactly the same electronics as their double sided versions, just with a pressure pad in place of the second head. If you had the test and alignment equipment you could upgrade single sided drives to double sided by taking parts from bad double sided drives.
          >
          > I've seen one really old single sided drive that did not have the chips and connectors for the second head. It was also a 35 track drive. It was connected to an original TI floppy controller which formatted it to 35 track, single density. Couldn't fit very much on such a disk. ;)
          >
        • Ksarul
          One note, a lot of the earlier drives have a different closure mechanism--about 1/3 of the drive door snaps up vertically within the drive case to eject the
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 4, 2010
            One note, a lot of the earlier drives have a different closure
            mechanism--about 1/3 of the drive door snaps up vertically within the drive
            case to eject the disk. These drives were made by MPI and are actually one
            of the more reliable Full-height drives from that time period. The Model is
            MPI-51 (can be used as SSSD or SSDD drives, 40 tracks). A lot of folks back
            then preferred these to the Tandon or Shugart models.

            Jim

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            wmaalouli
            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 9:51 PM
            To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica

            Thanks for the info :)

            Walid

            --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@...>
            > > Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
            > > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 6:44 AM
            > > Hi.
            > >
            > > I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives
            > > pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The
            > > drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should
            > > match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way
            > > or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?
            >
            > TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They'll work in any system that
            uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the drive
            number jumpers and termination resistors for whichever system you're
            connecting them to.
            >
            > Many of those drives used a shunt pack instead of jumpers to set the drive
            number. The shunts in the top of the DIP would be cut or punched to break
            them. It's better to just pull the pack and bend legs out since you can't
            get those shunt packs now. In some cases I just bent some staples to make
            jumpers for the shunt socket.
            >
            > Single or double density is controlled by the controller. Single or double
            sided is whether or not the drive has two heads.
            >
            > Most single sided floppy drives used exactly the same electronics as their
            double sided versions, just with a pressure pad in place of the second head.
            If you had the test and alignment equipment you could upgrade single sided
            drives to double sided by taking parts from bad double sided drives.
            >
            > I've seen one really old single sided drive that did not have the chips
            and connectors for the second head. It was also a 35 track drive. It was
            connected to an original TI floppy controller which formatted it to 35
            track, single density. Couldn't fit very much on such a disk. ;)
            >




            ------------------------------------

            For users/owners of TI-99/4A Geneve 9640 computers everywhere!
            Visit the TI99'ers Hall of Fame at http://www.ti99hof.org/.
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          • Richard
            Jim, I know that while many folks did like the MPI s I was more of a Tandon man for the full height units. Now in the half heights, I liked the Toshiba ones
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 4, 2010
              Jim,

              I know that while many folks did like the MPI's I was more of a Tandon man for the full height units. Now in the half heights, I liked the Toshiba ones which had a similar door to the Tandon. Teac also made some darned nice and reliable half-height drives which used very little power. I once got a batch of QumeTrak half-height drives which never worked right and blew fuses regularly in my PEBs.

              Rick

              --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, "Ksarul" <vze23g4a@...> wrote:
              >
              > One note, a lot of the earlier drives have a different closure
              > mechanism--about 1/3 of the drive door snaps up vertically within the drive
              > case to eject the disk. These drives were made by MPI and are actually one
              > of the more reliable Full-height drives from that time period. The Model is
              > MPI-51 (can be used as SSSD or SSDD drives, 40 tracks). A lot of folks back
              > then preferred these to the Tandon or Shugart models.
              >
              > Jim
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > wmaalouli
              > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 9:51 PM
              > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
              >
              > Thanks for the info :)
              >
              > Walid
              >
              > --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@>
              > > > Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
              > > > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 6:44 AM
              > > > Hi.
              > > >
              > > > I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives
              > > > pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The
              > > > drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should
              > > > match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way
              > > > or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?
              > >
              > > TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They'll work in any system that
              > uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the drive
              > number jumpers and termination resistors for whichever system you're
              > connecting them to.
              > >
              > > Many of those drives used a shunt pack instead of jumpers to set the drive
              > number. The shunts in the top of the DIP would be cut or punched to break
              > them. It's better to just pull the pack and bend legs out since you can't
              > get those shunt packs now. In some cases I just bent some staples to make
              > jumpers for the shunt socket.
              > >
              > > Single or double density is controlled by the controller. Single or double
              > sided is whether or not the drive has two heads.
              > >
              > > Most single sided floppy drives used exactly the same electronics as their
              > double sided versions, just with a pressure pad in place of the second head.
              > If you had the test and alignment equipment you could upgrade single sided
              > drives to double sided by taking parts from bad double sided drives.
              > >
              > > I've seen one really old single sided drive that did not have the chips
              > and connectors for the second head. It was also a 35 track drive. It was
              > connected to an original TI floppy controller which formatted it to 35
              > track, single density. Couldn't fit very much on such a disk. ;)
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > For users/owners of TI-99/4A Geneve 9640 computers everywhere!
              > Visit the TI99'ers Hall of Fame at http://www.ti99hof.org/.
              > Check out the TI99ers On-Line User Group at http://www.ti99ers.org/.
              > Send abuse reports to abuse@...! Groups Links
              >
            • Gregg Eshelman
              ... I had one of those in single sided. Had to hold my hand in front of the slot and push the button with my thumb or it d shoot the disk out about three feet
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 4, 2010
                --- On Mon, 10/4/10, Ksarul <vze23g4a@...> wrote:

                > One note, a lot of the earlier drives
                > have a different closure
                > mechanism--about 1/3 of the drive door snaps up vertically
                > within the drive
                > case to eject the disk.  These drives were made by MPI
                > and are actually one
                > of the more reliable Full-height drives from that time
                > period.  The Model is
                > MPI-51 (can be used as SSSD or SSDD drives, 40
                > tracks).  A lot of folks back
                > then preferred these to the Tandon or Shugart models.

                I had one of those in single sided. Had to hold my hand in front of the slot and push the button with my thumb or it'd shoot the disk out about three feet and onto the floor. ;)

                I still have a couple of Tandon or Teac single sided full height drives. I've wondered if anyone ever hacked the motors and control boards from those drives for use in robots.

                Two powerful drive motors and two fairly strong stepper motors should be useful for something other than reading and writing old floppy disks.

                The only reason anyone would need a single sided drive for now is reading flippy disks. I dunno if a flippy in a double sided drive on a TI would cause trouble.
              • Ksarul
                True--and as Gregg noted, they did have the warp-speed eject function. I mentioned them because that was the original drive TI used, one that left other
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 5, 2010
                  True--and as Gregg noted, they did have the warp-speed eject function. I
                  mentioned them because that was the original drive TI used, one that left
                  other trivia traces too: look at the little aluminum covers for the PEB
                  drive bay and you will see that it is stamped in the likeness of the MPI
                  drive.

                  I changed out my MPI-51 for an MPI-52 (double-sided version of the MPI-51)
                  before I went to half-height drives. The TEAC FD-55Bs were definitely the
                  standard when it came to the half-heights. I had a pair of the
                  Qumetrak-42s, but only in an external case with a lot more power
                  available--those suckers were almost as energy-hungry as a full-height
                  drive, and the belts they used made them a bit more unreliable than their
                  direct-drive competition. BASF made a great 1/3-height drive that had
                  really low power consumption. You could actually run three of them in the
                  PEB, though you would occasionally blow a fuse doing it if the PEB was a bit
                  marginal. They weren't on the market very long though, and then mostly in
                  Europe.

                  I also have a pair of really nice 3.5 drives from Siemens. They are
                  half-height, but using the normal 3.5 drive width. The neat thing about
                  these is that they are 40-track, double-sided drives, making them a drip-in
                  replacement for a regular TI Drive without modifying the controller.

                  Jim


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Richard
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:17 AM
                  To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica

                  Jim,

                  I know that while many folks did like the MPI's I was more of a Tandon man
                  for the full height units. Now in the half heights, I liked the Toshiba ones
                  which had a similar door to the Tandon. Teac also made some darned nice and
                  reliable half-height drives which used very little power. I once got a batch
                  of QumeTrak half-height drives which never worked right and blew fuses
                  regularly in my PEBs.

                  Rick

                  --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, "Ksarul" <vze23g4a@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > One note, a lot of the earlier drives have a different closure
                  > mechanism--about 1/3 of the drive door snaps up vertically within the
                  drive
                  > case to eject the disk. These drives were made by MPI and are actually
                  one
                  > of the more reliable Full-height drives from that time period. The Model
                  is
                  > MPI-51 (can be used as SSSD or SSDD drives, 40 tracks). A lot of folks
                  back
                  > then preferred these to the Tandon or Shugart models.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of
                  > wmaalouli
                  > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 9:51 PM
                  > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
                  >
                  > Thanks for the info :)
                  >
                  > Walid
                  >
                  > --- In ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com, Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- On Sun, 10/3/10, wmaalouli <wmaalouli@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > From: wmaalouli <wmaalouli@>
                  > > > Subject: [TI-99/4A] Quick drive question Thechnica
                  > > > To: ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 6:44 AM
                  > > > Hi.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am thinking of using a couple of Shugart 400 L drives
                  > > > pulled form external TI drive enclosures in a Kaypro II (The
                  > > > drives have theoretical specs of SSDD 180K which should
                  > > > match the Kaypro drives). Are TI drives modified in any way
                  > > > or are they limited to SSSD by the controller?
                  > >
                  > > TI used standard Teac or Tandon drives. They'll work in any system that
                  > uses standard IBM PC compatible floppy drives. You do have to set the
                  drive
                  > number jumpers and termination resistors for whichever system you're
                  > connecting them to.
                  > >
                  > > Many of those drives used a shunt pack instead of jumpers to set the
                  drive
                  > number. The shunts in the top of the DIP would be cut or punched to break
                  > them. It's better to just pull the pack and bend legs out since you can't
                  > get those shunt packs now. In some cases I just bent some staples to make
                  > jumpers for the shunt socket.
                  > >
                  > > Single or double density is controlled by the controller. Single or
                  double
                  > sided is whether or not the drive has two heads.
                  > >
                  > > Most single sided floppy drives used exactly the same electronics as
                  their
                  > double sided versions, just with a pressure pad in place of the second
                  head.
                  > If you had the test and alignment equipment you could upgrade single sided
                  > drives to double sided by taking parts from bad double sided drives.
                  > >
                  > > I've seen one really old single sided drive that did not have the chips
                  > and connectors for the second head. It was also a 35 track drive. It was
                  > connected to an original TI floppy controller which formatted it to 35
                  > track, single density. Couldn't fit very much on such a disk. ;)
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > For users/owners of TI-99/4A Geneve 9640 computers everywhere!
                  > Visit the TI99'ers Hall of Fame at http://www.ti99hof.org/.
                  > Check out the TI99ers On-Line User Group at http://www.ti99ers.org/.
                  > Send abuse reports to abuse@...! Groups Links
                  >




                  ------------------------------------

                  For users/owners of TI-99/4A Geneve 9640 computers everywhere!
                  Visit the TI99'ers Hall of Fame at http://www.ti99hof.org/.
                  Check out the TI99ers On-Line User Group at http://www.ti99ers.org/.
                  Send abuse reports to abuse@...! Groups Links
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