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RES: [thrower] Going to make some knives.

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  • Dalmo Mariano
    Hey, Sam & Joe, I also use a 4/12 inch angle grinder here in Brazil, its fine for cutting but poor for finishing, think its good to cut with it them finish
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2001
      Hey, Sam & Joe, I also use a 4/12 inch angle grinder here in Brazil, its
      fine for cutting but poor for finishing, think its good to cut with it them
      finish with a belt grinder, one of my friends (hes not a thrower but a great
      cutler, his works was shown in the Blade magazine)Ricardo Vilar, thinks a
      belt grinder is a great tool for finishing knives, I'm about to buy one...
      Um abraço
      Dalmo
      -----Mensagem original-----
      De: brknfthr@... [mailto:brknfthr@...]
      Enviada em: Sábado, 2 de Agosto de 2003 18:44
      Para: thrower@yahoogroups.com
      Assunto: Re: [thrower] Going to make some knives.


      Hi Sam
      You have no choice but to get some of the best ideas available through
      this
      list as I have met and thrown with a lot of the people on this list and
      also
      have taken their advise when it comes to making some knives.
      I think Lee Fugatt and Burl Carl as well as a few others use a 4 1/2
      inch
      angle grinder /die cutter type tool and I also have used those as well and
      they
      work good, I use a very narrow cutting blade so as not to have to cut
      extra
      steel, I also have an 8 inch bench grinder with a rough and fine wheel on
      it
      for taking a lot of metal off but usually use the angle grinder then the
      bench
      grinder.
      As Burl would tell you leaf springs from a junkyard will work great and
      they will not need tempering also old industrial lawn mower blades and
      chain saw
      bars will work just fine too and as I always suggest go with McEvoy's
      formula
      of a knife 12 to 16 inches that is balanced no more than an inch front or
      back
      from dead center and 3/16 to 1/4 inch thich ( a 1/4 inch thick 16 inch
      long
      knife will wear you out though) is the right thickness, I also cut a
      template
      out of cardboard and kind of get the feel of it as cardboard is more
      forgiving
      than metal as far as cutting and shaping goes and when it feels right in
      carboard as far as balance and all go I make it out of metal.
      I hope this helps a bit take care and stick with it!

      Joe
      D.

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    • royhutchison
      Sam Ive got an engineering company, so after 40 years in the metal bashing trade, I advise you to get an old industrial pillar grinder, with wheels at least
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 2, 2002
        Sam

        Ive got an engineering company, so after 40 years in the
        "metal bashing" trade, I advise you to get an old industrial
        pillar grinder, with wheels at least 2 inches wide and at
        least 10 inchs diameter. If your gonna grind the metal to shape, the wheel size you speak of will be no good.
        Yes you will get away with it, maybe, but it will kill you
        trying.

        As for suitable material, go with the knowledge you already
        have and see how they go.

        Roy L
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Sam Murray
        To: thrower@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 2:09 PM
        Subject: [thrower] Going to make some knives.


        Hi everyone.
        It's Sam from W. Australia again. I never did find that knife! But
        it's inspired me to make my own throwers.
        I know the shape I want, and I've read a few pages about making
        throwers, but I still have a few questions... (as ususal!)
        I stopped past a hardware store today to sight their grinders and
        they only had one there. The wheels looked as thought they were a
        bit under an inch thick, if not nearly an inch.
        Do you think this will be ok for the ammount of grinding I will be
        doing, or will I need to get something more heavy duty. I'm going to
        wander up to another, bigger store tommorow to check out theirs.

        What I had in mind, was to design the knife shape on paper first,
        photo copy it and paste it into the steel then grind away what
        shouldn't be there. There's always the option of hacksawing as much
        off as I can, but that might take several years.

        Now comes the question of the durability of the steel. Some steels
        require hardening and tempering to achieve the durability a thrower
        needs, (rockwell 45 I've gathered, no less than 35, no higher than
        49?) If it does need tempering, I'll probably just take it somewhere
        where they can do it as I'm not really set up here for anything like
        that.

        Thanks for reading my short newbie novel.
        Sam "all your base are belong to us" Murray


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sam Murray
        Hi everyone. It s Sam from W. Australia again. I never did find that knife! But it s inspired me to make my own throwers. I know the shape I want, and I ve
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 2, 2003
          Hi everyone.
          It's Sam from W. Australia again. I never did find that knife! But
          it's inspired me to make my own throwers.
          I know the shape I want, and I've read a few pages about making
          throwers, but I still have a few questions... (as ususal!)
          I stopped past a hardware store today to sight their grinders and
          they only had one there. The wheels looked as thought they were a
          bit under an inch thick, if not nearly an inch.
          Do you think this will be ok for the ammount of grinding I will be
          doing, or will I need to get something more heavy duty. I'm going to
          wander up to another, bigger store tommorow to check out theirs.

          What I had in mind, was to design the knife shape on paper first,
          photo copy it and paste it into the steel then grind away what
          shouldn't be there. There's always the option of hacksawing as much
          off as I can, but that might take several years.

          Now comes the question of the durability of the steel. Some steels
          require hardening and tempering to achieve the durability a thrower
          needs, (rockwell 45 I've gathered, no less than 35, no higher than
          49?) If it does need tempering, I'll probably just take it somewhere
          where they can do it as I'm not really set up here for anything like
          that.

          Thanks for reading my short newbie novel.
          Sam "all your base are belong to us" Murray
        • Chris, Melissa and Haley
          Sam, I don t know what you have down in Australia. What I used to make my prototype is a 4.5 in hand grinder with thin cutoff wheels, the wheels are about
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 2, 2003
            Sam,

            I don't know what you have down in Australia. What I used to make my
            prototype is a 4.5 in hand grinder with thin cutoff wheels, the wheels are
            about 3/64" thick and cut thru the steel quite well. Then I switched to the
            thicker 1/4" wheel for rest of the shape and smoothing and then to a flap
            wheel for final edging and polishing.

            If you want to see what I'm talking about you can go to
            www.Northerntool.com and see the grinding wheels.

            I take it your looking at a bench grinder. I have one like the one
            your looking at and it is very under powered for that kind of work. I
            cheated a little on my knives though. After I got my prototype done and saw
            how it threw and liked it I then had about 20 more cut at work for me using
            a computer aided plasma cutter. But the hand grinder and the different
            wheels worked well.

            I didn't temper my steel. The knives are holding up quite well, I use
            10 to practice at one time. They do bend a little but I just put them on a
            2X4 and step on them a little and get them back into shape. I would suggest
            making them, throwing them to make sure you like the design then if you feel
            you need to temper them go ahead and do it. I wouldn't go thru the expense
            of tempering the knives until you know you like the design.

            my 2 cents,
            Chris
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sam Murray
            To: thrower@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: August 02, 2003 9:09 AM
            Subject: [thrower] Going to make some knives.


            Hi everyone.
            It's Sam from W. Australia again. I never did find that knife! But
            it's inspired me to make my own throwers.
            I know the shape I want, and I've read a few pages about making
            throwers, but I still have a few questions... (as ususal!)
            I stopped past a hardware store today to sight their grinders and
            they only had one there. The wheels looked as thought they were a
            bit under an inch thick, if not nearly an inch.
            Do you think this will be ok for the ammount of grinding I will be
            doing, or will I need to get something more heavy duty. I'm going to
            wander up to another, bigger store tommorow to check out theirs.

            What I had in mind, was to design the knife shape on paper first,
            photo copy it and paste it into the steel then grind away what
            shouldn't be there. There's always the option of hacksawing as much
            off as I can, but that might take several years.

            Now comes the question of the durability of the steel. Some steels
            require hardening and tempering to achieve the durability a thrower
            needs, (rockwell 45 I've gathered, no less than 35, no higher than
            49?) If it does need tempering, I'll probably just take it somewhere
            where they can do it as I'm not really set up here for anything like
            that.

            Thanks for reading my short newbie novel.
            Sam "all your base are belong to us" Murray


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT




            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • brknfthr@aol.com
            Hi Sam You have no choice but to get some of the best ideas available through this list as I have met and thrown with a lot of the people on this list and also
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 2, 2003
              Hi Sam
              You have no choice but to get some of the best ideas available through this
              list as I have met and thrown with a lot of the people on this list and also
              have taken their advise when it comes to making some knives.
              I think Lee Fugatt and Burl Carl as well as a few others use a 4 1/2 inch
              angle grinder /die cutter type tool and I also have used those as well and they
              work good, I use a very narrow cutting blade so as not to have to cut extra
              steel, I also have an 8 inch bench grinder with a rough and fine wheel on it
              for taking a lot of metal off but usually use the angle grinder then the bench
              grinder.
              As Burl would tell you leaf springs from a junkyard will work great and
              they will not need tempering also old industrial lawn mower blades and chain saw
              bars will work just fine too and as I always suggest go with McEvoy's formula
              of a knife 12 to 16 inches that is balanced no more than an inch front or back
              from dead center and 3/16 to 1/4 inch thich ( a 1/4 inch thick 16 inch long
              knife will wear you out though) is the right thickness, I also cut a template
              out of cardboard and kind of get the feel of it as cardboard is more forgiving
              than metal as far as cutting and shaping goes and when it feels right in
              carboard as far as balance and all go I make it out of metal.
              I hope this helps a bit take care and stick with it!
              Joe
              D.
            • Sam Murray
              Thanks for all the replies. Really helpful. GOod news first: I FOUND MY KNIFE!!!! haha yeaahhh. I went out where I lost it and thought, maybe the storms we ve
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 3, 2003
                Thanks for all the replies. Really helpful.
                GOod news first: I FOUND MY KNIFE!!!! haha yeaahhh.
                I went out where I lost it and thought, maybe the storms we've been
                having with high winds have moved things around so it's visable now.
                And sure enough, I saw it's rusty little point sticking out of a
                shrub. Pulled it out and the tip was slightly rusted, but the rest
                was perfect as it's coated. Very happy about that.
                Onto knife making.
                Sounds like, from what I'm reading, the angle grinder is the way to
                go for cutting the steel eh?
                I used an angle grinder in school (7 years ago in Nautical Studies
                (cutting things off boat trailers). You just clamp the knife between
                some thick leather and start cutting eh?

                Now thinking of getting angle grinder and vice and shaping the knife
                with it, then finishing off the job with a file, or if budget allows
                it, a grinder. (brush attachment?)
                Thx again for replies.
                Sam Murray
              • Lalle
                seems like everyone use gridders to make there blades, or well a plasma cuter to speed thins up and get the shape thay whant a bit faster. i think gridding is
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 3, 2003
                  seems like everyone use gridders to make there blades,
                  or well a plasma cuter to speed thins up and get the
                  shape thay whant a bit faster.

                  i think gridding is fun but when i have tools makeing
                  the jobb easy ill rather use them ;)

                  unlike (apearently) everyone else im useing a Mazak vtc
                  (cnc mill) that will practicly do all the work for me
                  based upon what i code for it. cnc machines are expensive
                  as hell so i understand why no one else use em.

                  and oh, when you get your knife finisht ide love to see some
                  pictures of it, would be nice to see the drawing as well.

                  Regards!
                  - "Lalle" (Lauritz J. Saxtrup, Sweden)

                  --- In thrower@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Murray" <sammy_australia@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Thanks for all the replies. Really helpful.
                  > GOod news first: I FOUND MY KNIFE!!!! haha yeaahhh.
                  > I went out where I lost it and thought, maybe the storms we've been
                  > having with high winds have moved things around so it's visable
                  now.
                  > And sure enough, I saw it's rusty little point sticking out of a
                  > shrub. Pulled it out and the tip was slightly rusted, but the rest
                  > was perfect as it's coated. Very happy about that.
                  > Onto knife making.
                  > Sounds like, from what I'm reading, the angle grinder is the way to
                  > go for cutting the steel eh?
                  > I used an angle grinder in school (7 years ago in Nautical Studies
                  > (cutting things off boat trailers). You just clamp the knife
                  between
                  > some thick leather and start cutting eh?
                  >
                  > Now thinking of getting angle grinder and vice and shaping the
                  knife
                  > with it, then finishing off the job with a file, or if budget
                  allows
                  > it, a grinder. (brush attachment?)
                  > Thx again for replies.
                  > Sam Murray
                • Matthew Rapaport
                  If no one has mentioned it (I ve been away for a few days), I ll say that I think you are obsessing too much about tempering. A throwing knife can vary a lot,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 3, 2003
                    If no one has mentioned it (I've been away for a few days), I'll say that
                    I think you are obsessing too much about tempering. A throwing knife can
                    vary a lot, especially if it is reasonably thick (say 3/16" or better). If
                    it is TOO soft, it will tend to take on a bow after a few throws. This can
                    be bent out pretty easily, but not always exactly, and is a pain in the
                    neck to deal with eventually. If it is too hard, it will eventually crack
                    and break somewhere (point, or junction between handle/blade area are most
                    common), but thickness goes a long way toward preventing this. Anywhere
                    from rocwell 44 up to about 50 is usually OK, especially (again, you can't
                    over emphasize this) if it is otherwise thick and strong enough in its
                    basic design...


                    On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Sam Murray wrote:

                    > Now comes the question of the durability of the steel. Some steels
                    > require hardening and tempering to achieve the durability a thrower
                    > needs, (rockwell 45 I've gathered, no less than 35, no higher than
                    > 49?) If it does need tempering, I'll probably just take it somewhere
                    > where they can do it as I'm not really set up here for anything like
                    > that.

                    mjr@... - have skills, will travel - KD6KVH
                    ...the original throwing weapons page...
                    matthew http://www.quine.home.sonic.net/thrower.html rapaport
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