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Re: [thrower] Faster than a spee ding bullet…NOT QU ITE!

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  • cgeddes
    Tim, I m impressed. You seem to have some SERIOUS book learning. When David Adamovich and I were talking in Phoenix I said I FELT that I throw about 25 mph.
    Message 1 of 2 , May 1, 2001
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      Tim,

      I'm impressed. You seem to have some SERIOUS book learning. When David
      Adamovich and I were talking in Phoenix I said I FELT that I throw about 25
      mph. Since I've been going to tournaments I have found speed doesn't
      matter, accuracy does!

      Now for a real knife throwing question. Since I throw the same knife by the
      handle and the blade I was wondering if it's "normal" to change your grip
      for different distances. For instance, at 8' I hold the blade much higher
      in my hand than I do at 15' and 21'. My handle throws at 12' and 18' are
      placed differently in my hand also. Is this normal to move your hand along
      the blade when throwing or am I learning wrong? Burl, I'm trying to do what
      you suggested, PRACTICE CORRECTLY.

      I look forward to everyones comments.

      Carl
      San Diego,CA
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Tim Valentine" <comlogic@...>
      To: <thrower@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [thrower] Faster than a speeding bullet…NOT QU ITE!


      > David,
      >
      > > My throw, ... has been measured by digital videography at between 23 and
      25 mph,
      > > i.e., 23 mph for the 1/2 spin, 25 mph for a single spin, 24 mph for a 1
      1/2
      > > and 2 spin, and 25 mph for a triple spin. It’s fair to say, therefore,
      that
      > > give or take 1 mph I am consistently throwing around 24 mph. For those
      truly
      > > interested in the minutia of this debate here are the facts: a digital
      video
      > > camcorder was used to record each spin from 1/2 through triples. This
      was
      > > played back, paused and advanced one frame at a time at 30
      frames/second.
      > > That’s 1/30 of a second/frame or 33/1000 of a second/frame! The exact
      > > distance in inches was measured from where the knife was released to the
      > > target. This was 87 inches at the 8-foot line. In other words, 96 inches
      > > (from the 8 foot toe line to the target) LESS a 9-inch over reach equals
      87
      > > inches for a 1/2-spin. Moreover, it was revealed that regardless of the
      > > number of spins thrown, the knife leaves the hand virtually
      perpendicular to
      > > the ground or 1/4 spin prior to a horizontal, dead-on tip to target,
      profile.
      >
      > Interesting that you have also discovered the point up attitude of the
      > knife as it leaves the hand. I discovered this also quite a while back
      > and documented on the Sticking Point page
      > WWW.COMMONLOGIC.COM/KNIFE/THROWING/SCIENCE/SCIENCE.HTM
      >
      > >
      > > Think about this, if the knife were
      > > released for a single spin when the point were facing the target its
      > > tangential flight path would be straight down to the floor.
      >
      > Not exactly true. Centrifugal force would tend to direct the knife
      > straight ahead while curvealinear motion would tend to direct the knife
      > straight down. The resulting path would be more like a "sticky handle"
      > throw which lands several feet in front of you.
      >
      > > For a knife to
      > > fly horizontal to the earth it has to, therefore, be released 90° prior.
      >
      > This is one of the principles that Igor Sikorsky had to discover and
      > overcome to make the helicopter a viable controlled flying machine. In
      > effect the swash plate mechanism adjusts the angle of attack of the
      > blades 90 degrees prior to the direction of flight desired. This is due
      > to the inherent lage between the actual movement of the blade and the
      > actual areodynamic effect to happen.
      >
      > > For those of you who want to do the math, the distances from 1/2 through
      3 spin are: 87, 135,
      > > 171, 212 and 291 inches respectively (these are the standard 8, 12, 15,
      18
      > > and 25 feet toe marks less the 9" overreach. In the case of a 2 spin I
      was 5
      > > inches beyond the 18 foot line.) The time of flight for 1/2 through 3
      spins
      > > are 0.22, 0.30, 0.43, 0.50 and 0.67 seconds respectively. Rate equals
      > > distance divided by time. Using one spin as an example, 135 inches/0.30
      > > seconds equals 450 inches/second. This needs to be multiplied by a
      constant,
      > > ..0568, which converts inches/second to miles/hour. So, multiply
      > > 450-inches/second by .0568 to get 25 miles/hour!
      >
      > These were posted some time ago as I measured at 426 inches, allowing
      > for error there is still a noticeable difference.
      >
      > << The times taken at 35.5 feet =>
      >
      > 1. 0.58 8. 0.56 15. 0.59 22. 0.56 29. 0.44
      > 2. 0.63 9. 0.80 16. 0.67 23. 0.68 30. 0.48
      > 3. 0.64 10. 0.49 17. 0.66 24. 0.50 31. 0.43
      > 4. 0.68 11. 0.55 18. 0.55 25. 0.53 32. 0.65
      > 5. 0.68 12. 0.56 19. 0.46 26. 0.56 33. 0.49
      > 6. 0.50 13. 0.70 20. 0.68 27. 0.41 34. 0.61
      > 7. 0.46 14. 0.47 21. 0.44 28. 0.45 35. 0.66 >>
      >
      > > I hope this affirmatively
      > > answers the question of whether bad ass knife throwers should carry
      knives as
      > > weapons when a potential perp carries a gun that actually fires its
      > > projectile at whatever the hell speed a bullet goes.
      >
      > Next time you get the ear of an experienced cop ask them about the 20
      > foot rule concerning blade draw usage compared to firearm draw and usage.
      >
      > tim valentine
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Matthew Rapaport
      ... Changing both the placement and the type of grip will both influence the spin rate, and these are among the techniques that experienced knife throwers use
      Message 2 of 2 , May 3, 2001
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        On Tue, 1 May 2001, cgeddes wrote:

        > Is this normal to move your hand along
        > the blade when throwing or am I learning wrong? Burl, I'm trying to do what
        > you suggested, PRACTICE CORRECTLY.
        >

        Changing both the placement and the type of grip will both influence the
        spin rate, and these are among the techniques that experienced knife
        throwers use to gain different distances. The problem is trying too many
        variations while you are still learning can get confusing. You have two
        choices (and anything in between).

        1. Practice one grip and placement over and over until you can always
        replicate the hit from a given distance. Don't try variations until you
        can reliably predict what you can do with an absolutely known and
        practiced single variation.

        2. Don't worry about it much and have fun experimenting with all kinds of
        different techniques. After all, you're life is not going to depend on
        your skill here, so just have fun with it and don't worry if you improve
        more slowly at any one variation.

        See you in Redding!

        Lee! This time you picked Father's day weekend! Luckily my family is very
        understanding... :-)

        mjr@... mrapaport@... KD6KVH
        ...the original throwing weapons page...
        matthew http://www.sonic.net/~quine/thrower.html rapaport
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