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Re: Competition

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  • Gene Hauenstein
    ... Mr. Branton, Bob Karp does not compete at the IKTA World Knife Throwing Championships for a number of reasons. First, he is the sponsor of the event and
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 2 4:47 PM
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      > From: PROFLY001@...
      >
      > The American Knife Throwers Alliance will be hosting our 5th annual national
      > championships on October 13-14 2000 in Awendaw, S.C.
      > You are welcome to attend. All that is required is that you be a member in
      > good standing with AKTA. Membership cost only $15.00 for the first year and
      > $10.00 for renewals.
      > Unlike the IKTA contest the host does enter and throw.
      >
      > Bobby Branton
      > President
      > American Knife Throwers Alliance
      >

      Mr. Branton,

      Bob Karp does not compete at the IKTA World Knife Throwing Championships for a
      number of reasons. First, he is the sponsor of the event and feels it wouldn�t
      be ethical for him to compete. Second, he believes that it would be unfair for a
      professional knife thrower with over fifty years of experience to compete.
      Third, he is very busy at this event as he is in charge of both the
      Championships and the teaching of knife throwing throughout the event, helping
      beginners and advanced people alike to learn and enjoy the art and sport of
      knife throwing. The great Joe Bowman (gun handling), the famous Alex Green
      (whips) and other western art greats are also there as instructors, not
      competitors. However, if you doubt his throwing ability, Bob, despite his great
      workload, is willing to make an exception and compete against you on a
      one-on-one basis.

      Let me also correct some misinformation that has been on this list. To enter the
      IKTA World Knife Throwing Championships in Las Vegas there isn�t ANY cost. That
      is right, it is free, nada, nothing, zippo, there is no entry fee. Bob feels it
      is expensive enough for people to travel to compete and therefore would like to
      make it as inexpensive as possible to enter. It is also an open contest, which
      means you do not have to belong to any organization to compete. Just show up and
      enjoy the throwing and camaraderie of fellow knife throwers. This is reflective
      of the IKTA�s motto, �Unity through Sportsmanship�.

      IF you would like to partake in all the other activities associated with the
      Wild West Arts Club (WWAC-a great club and a great event!) then yes, there is an
      additional fee. For further information concerning the WWAC events please see
      their website at www.wwac.com.

      The IKTA World Knife Throwing Championships in Las Vegas will be held at the
      Tropicana Hotel from Monday, March 20th to Wednesday, March 22nd. The
      preliminaries will be held both Monday and Tuesday with the finals on Wednesday,
      March 22nd.

      If you would like further information you can contact Bob Karp directly at
      602-870-1234.

      Sincerely,
      Gene Hauenstein
      IKTA Director
      �Unity through Sportsmanship�
    • TONKASILA@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/2/00 5:02:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, ghau@sprintmail.com writes:
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 2 6:06 PM
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        In a message dated 2/2/00 5:02:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        ghau@... writes:

        << However, if you doubt his throwing ability, Bob, despite his great
        workload, is willing to make an exceptionand compete against you on a
        one-on-one basis. >>

        I have to say it Bobby. Bob is a VERY good thrower. I can beat him tho...
        and I am better lookin!! ( this stuff is so much fun! dont mess it up for
        your selves by making it life or death eh?) Lee. BTW I'm a better singer
        too!! :-) DGYPIU! ( Dont Get Your Panties In an Uproar)
      • PROFLY001@aol.com
        In a message dated 2/2/00 8:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, ghau@sprintmail.com writes:
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 2 6:53 PM
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          In a message dated 2/2/00 8:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          ghau@... writes:

          << However, if you doubt his throwing ability, Bob, despite his great
          workload, is willing to make an exception and compete against you on a
          one-on-one basis.
          >>

          No one has challenged Bob Karps throwing ability. Plus if I need to talk to
          Bob I will talk to Bob and not you, as I do not know or really care who you
          are. I usually work by myself with little help a month before our event to
          make sure that all of my guest have the best experience possible. I only get
          to practice a couple of nights before the contest as I am usually in my shop
          making knives until the wee hours in the morning. I also work around the
          clock before, during and after the event and finally get to unwind after the
          last person has left which is usually a couple of days after the contest.In
          previous posts people have been concerned about the leadership in the Knife
          Throwing organizations. I only made a factual statement. Some of the new
          throwers who come into the sport think that because they do well at home they
          will come to a tournament and take home the gold. They also get upset when
          someone with more experience makes a statement that they perceive as some
          sort of threat.
          I personally do not get a big thrill throwing at logs. I perform a knife
          impalement act where I throw at a live target. I have plenty of television
          footage to back it up. Plus I threw at a live target in front of a huge crowd
          a few years ago at the Blade Show in Atlanta. That is what got me and keeps
          me into knife throwing. I only throw at my tournament to help support the
          group and I do fairly well at it. I am not a competitive person. So if anyone
          has a problem with anything I say please feel free to contact me off line or
          call me at home at 843-928-3624.

          Bobby Branton
          President
          American Knife Throwers Alliance
        • ESmith7051@aol.com
          Bobby: I doubt that anyone that has seen you throw will deny your exceptional ability with throwing weapons. I have always been impressed with your skill and
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 5 7:17 AM
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            Bobby:

            I doubt that anyone that has seen you throw will deny your exceptional
            ability with throwing weapons. I have always been impressed with your skill
            and ability. I believe that this matter concerning whether or not the host
            should or should not throw in the competitions is similar to the question
            posed at martial arts tournaments. The Senior black belts and instructors do
            not compete after a certain rank and age for a variety of reasons ranging
            from admin duties to the feeling that they have proved themselves already..
            This does not mean that they are still not the best in the business.

            I am a friend and student of Bob Karp's and I believe that he is still
            one of the best in the business. Your throwing styles are different and I
            don't believe that you two have to go head to head to prove anything to
            anyone. I also believe that when Bob puts on throwing exhibitions at the
            IKTA
            contests and makes himself available to coach younger throwers in the sport,
            it does as much to promote the sport as actually competing. Bob is pushing
            to
            get the sport and art of knife throwing as much exposure as possible by
            conducting exhibitions and seminars nationwide. I constantly hear people on
            the Web complain that there are no people in their area that throw. The more
            positive exposure that this sport gets can only benefit us all.

            Eryk
          • ESmith7051@aol.com
            Bobby: I doubt that anyone that has seen you throw will deny your exceptional ability with throwing weapons. I have always been impressed with your skill and
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 5 7:17 AM
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              Bobby:

              I doubt that anyone that has seen you throw will deny your exceptional
              ability with throwing weapons. I have always been impressed with your skill
              and ability. I believe that this matter concerning whether or not the host
              should or should not throw in the competitions is similar to the question
              posed at martial arts tournaments. The Senior black belts and instructors do
              not compete after a certain rank and age for a variety of reasons ranging
              from admin duties to the feeling that they have proved themselves already.
              This does not mean that they are still not the best in the business.

              I am a friend and student of Bob Karp's and I believe that he is still
              one of the best in the business. Your throwing styles are different and I
              don't believe that you two have to go head to head to prove anything to
              anyone. I also believe that when Bob puts on throwing exhibitions at the IKTA
              contests and makes himself available to coach younger throwers in the sport,
              it does as much to promote the sport as actually competing. Bob is pushing to
              get the sport and art of knife throwing as much exposure as possible by
              conducting exhibitions and seminars nationwide. I constantly hear people on
              the Web complain that there are no people in their area that throw. The more
              positive exposure that this sport gets can only benefit us all.

              Eryk
            • PROFLY001@aol.com
              Well, it seems that the lurkers have come out the woodwork. I will make one more statement and that will be all I have to say on the subject. I only made a
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 5 10:07 AM
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                Well, it seems that the lurkers have come out the woodwork. I will make one
                more statement and that will be all I have to say on the subject. I only
                made
                a statement that has been asked for a few years. If the Bob Karp fans want
                to
                crawl out of the woodwork and bash me, well so be it. I can take my licks
                like a man. I never have made any statements concerning Bob Karps throwing
                ability. I have always told others that he has a unique style. I sounds like
                the Karps fans have run to Bob for ammunition against me. Bob did teach me
                the palm throw one year in Atlanta. I played with it but have found through
                my years of throwing it is not for me. I have watched Bob throw for several
                years at the Blade show in Atlanta and I have seen him miss quite a few
                throws. I was even nice enough to invite him up to throw. I tried that for a
                couple of years and I made the decision last year to restrict the fellow
                throwers from throwing in my demonstration because it takes away from my set
                up and practice time. Plus there were getting to be too many throwers who
                wanted to throw. I only have 15 minutes or so to throw and then I have to
                run
                back into the show so that I can be at my table. Last year Bob came to my
                table often before my demonstration to talk and to hang out, but once I
                explained to him that I was going to throw alone this year he never came
                back
                to my table for the next 2 days. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I also tols
                two more throwers the same thing. The first two years that I met Bob he was
                hanging around with Dan Dennehy at the Blade Show when Dan was doing the
                demos and when Dan let Bob come up to throw Bob mentioned everyone in the
                audience that was involved with knife throwing except me. I felt as low as a
                snake in a hole.
                To you who only get to hear one side there is a long history between me and
                Bob and I have told Bob to his face on more that one occasion how I feel. I
                seems that we are competing on two different fronts. Knife clubs and
                throwing
                knife sales. Bob and I have agreed that we can agree to disagree and I
                respect him when I see him and He seems to do the same. The first year I met
                Bob, I was excited about bringing back the AKTA,and he told me plans to
                create his throwing organization so I held off thinking that there was not
                enough throwers to have two organizations. I waited more that 6 months and
                after talking to several people who knew Bob they told me that they were
                sending money to the IKTA and never saw a patch, card or newsletter so after
                encouragement from my friends I set my plans in motion to revive the AKTA..
                All that I ask of you is to hear both sides of the story. If you want to
                hear
                more call me at home because there will be no more here. I do not know Eric
                but I am glad he enjoyed my demonstration. I will not go anywhere to have a
                throw off with Bob Karp but he is more than welcome to attend one of my
                contest and compete with our group of throwers at the AKTA Nationals in Oct.
                I can sympathize with anyone who puts on a large contest as It is difficult
                to run all operations and throw with a clear and competitive spirit. I think
                Rick Lemberg will concur with that. I too have given away more knives than I
                care to remember probably the only people who know that are the ones that I
                gave knives to or were there at the time,mostly because I choose not to
                boast
                about it. I too have trained and have given freely of my time to newcomers
                of
                the sport. I also teach groups, families and Boy Scouts how to throw, but I
                do not wear it like a badge.When one put titles on oneself you are only
                opening yourself to criticism as people expect you to live up to that
                title.
                That is why you will not see Che Che, Larry Cisewski or any other person who
                is billed as the Greatest of this or the fastest of this compete because
                they
                have too much on the line. Say for instance if I called myself "The Greatest
                Knifethrower and knifemaker in the world " and someone beat me in
                competition
                every year and I happened to break one of my knives in the process, my name
                would be mud in the knifemaking and knifethrowing community. Think about it.
                Just say someone called you up and said that "The master of all throwing
                arts
                " was going to put on a demo at xyz fairground and wants you to go with him.
                After what you saw at last years event all you would say is, well he isn't
                much of a thrower I saw Joe Thrower beat him last year at the Nationals plus
                he broke one of his knives.
                So people who put labels on themselves have a lot to lose.
                Now lets get to Doc Gundersen.
                I can not remember how I got to meet this lovely man, but I think he
                contacted me by e mail wanting me to promote his knives. I e mailed him back
                and asked if he wanted to trade knives so that I could get a set for my
                museum. Shortly after I received his knives in the mail, as he already had a
                set made up. He told me of another Master who beat him out of a set of
                knives
                and was concerned that he had not received any knives from me. He also told
                me that the knife throwing crowd was the worst he had ever dealt with. I
                told
                him that I was sorry but that I was trying to get my Christmas orders out
                and
                would get them soon, which was not soon enough.
                We then got into a nasty e mail battle ( I have all of the e mails) and he
                finally conceded that he was sorry and we chalked it all up tp experience..
                I
                did send him his knives back and was planing just a few weeks ago to buy a
                set from him just to have in the museum. I may still do that when I get some
                extra cash.
                Well I could just ramble on but this will not do anything productive for the
                sport of Knife Throwing that I love so dearly.

                Next!!!!!!

                Bobby Branton
                President
                American KnifeThrowers Alliance
              • PROFLY001@aol.com
                Well, it seems that the lurkers have come out the woodwork. I will make one more statement and that will be all I have to say on the subject. I only made a
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 5 10:07 AM
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                  Well, it seems that the lurkers have come out the woodwork. I will make one
                  more statement and that will be all I have to say on the subject. I only made
                  a statement that has been asked for a few years. If the Bob Karp fans want to
                  crawl out of the woodwork and bash me, well so be it. I can take my licks
                  like a man. I never have made any statements concerning Bob Karps throwing
                  ability. I have always told others that he has a unique style. I sounds like
                  the Karps fans have run to Bob for ammunition against me. Bob did teach me
                  the palm throw one year in Atlanta. I played with it but have found through
                  my years of throwing it is not for me. I have watched Bob throw for several
                  years at the Blade show in Atlanta and I have seen him miss quite a few
                  throws. I was even nice enough to invite him up to throw. I tried that for a
                  couple of years and I made the decision last year to restrict the fellow
                  throwers from throwing in my demonstration because it takes away from my set
                  up and practice time. Plus there were getting to be too many throwers who
                  wanted to throw. I only have 15 minutes or so to throw and then I have to run
                  back into the show so that I can be at my table. Last year Bob came to my
                  table often before my demonstration to talk and to hang out, but once I
                  explained to him that I was going to throw alone this year he never came back
                  to my table for the next 2 days. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I also tols
                  two more throwers the same thing. The first two years that I met Bob he was
                  hanging around with Dan Dennehy at the Blade Show when Dan was doing the
                  demos and when Dan let Bob come up to throw Bob mentioned everyone in the
                  audience that was involved with knife throwing except me. I felt as low as a
                  snake in a hole.
                  To you who only get to hear one side there is a long history between me and
                  Bob and I have told Bob to his face on more that one occasion how I feel. I
                  seems that we are competing on two different fronts. Knife clubs and throwing
                  knife sales. Bob and I have agreed that we can agree to disagree and I
                  respect him when I see him and He seems to do the same. The first year I met
                  Bob, I was excited about bringing back the AKTA,and he told me plans to
                  create his throwing organization so I held off thinking that there was not
                  enough throwers to have two organizations. I waited more that 6 months and
                  after talking to several people who knew Bob they told me that they were
                  sending money to the IKTA and never saw a patch, card or newsletter so after
                  encouragement from my friends I set my plans in motion to revive the AKTA.
                  All that I ask of you is to hear both sides of the story. If you want to hear
                  more call me at home because there will be no more here. I do not know Eric
                  but I am glad he enjoyed my demonstration. I will not go anywhere to have a
                  throw off with Bob Karp but he is more than welcome to attend one of my
                  contest and compete with our group of throwers at the AKTA Nationals in Oct.
                  I can sympathize with anyone who puts on a large contest as It is difficult
                  to run all operations and throw with a clear and competitive spirit. I think
                  Rick Lemberg will concur with that. I too have given away more knives than I
                  care to remember probably the only people who know that are the ones that I
                  gave knives to or were there at the time,mostly because I choose not to boast
                  about it. I too have trained and have given freely of my time to newcomers of
                  the sport. I also teach groups, families and Boy Scouts how to throw, but I
                  do not wear it like a badge.When one put titles on oneself you are only
                  opening yourself to criticism as people expect you to live up to that title.
                  That is why you will not see Che Che, Larry Cisewski or any other person who
                  is billed as the Greatest of this or the fastest of this compete because they
                  have too much on the line. Say for instance if I called myself "The Greatest
                  Knifethrower and knifemaker in the world " and someone beat me in competition
                  every year and I happened to break one of my knives in the process, my name
                  would be mud in the knifemaking and knifethrowing community. Think about it.
                  Just say someone called you up and said that "The master of all throwing arts
                  " was going to put on a demo at xyz fairground and wants you to go with him.
                  After what you saw at last years event all you would say is, well he isn't
                  much of a thrower I saw Joe Thrower beat him last year at the Nationals plus
                  he broke one of his knives.
                  So people who put labels on themselves have a lot to lose.
                  Now lets get to Doc Gundersen.
                  I can not remember how I got to meet this lovely man, but I think he
                  contacted me by e mail wanting me to promote his knives. I e mailed him back
                  and asked if he wanted to trade knives so that I could get a set for my
                  museum. Shortly after I received his knives in the mail, as he already had a
                  set made up. He told me of another Master who beat him out of a set of knives
                  and was concerned that he had not received any knives from me. He also told
                  me that the knife throwing crowd was the worst he had ever dealt with. I told
                  him that I was sorry but that I was trying to get my Christmas orders out and
                  would get them soon, which was not soon enough.
                  We then got into a nasty e mail battle ( I have all of the e mails) and he
                  finally conceded that he was sorry and we chalked it all up tp experience. I
                  did send him his knives back and was planing just a few weeks ago to buy a
                  set from him just to have in the museum. I may still do that when I get some
                  extra cash.
                  Well I could just ramble on but this will not do anything productive for the
                  sport of Knife Throwing that I love so dearly.

                  Next!!!!!!

                  Bobby Branton
                  President
                  American KnifeThrowers Alliance
                • ESmith7051@aol.com
                  Hey Bobby: you are correct, this needs to end. This type of thing does no one any good. By the way you do know me. We see each other every year at the Atlanta
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 6 12:01 AM
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                    Hey Bobby:

                    you are correct, this needs to end. This type of thing does no one any
                    good. By the way you do know me. We see each other every year at the Atlanta
                    blade show. My wife and usually visit with you and you wife at your table..
                    Just look for the 6' 200 pound black man with the bald head, moustache and
                    goatee.

                    Eryk
                  • ESmith7051@aol.com
                    Hey Bobby: you are correct, this needs to end. This type of thing does no one any good. By the way you do know me. We see each other every year at the Atlanta
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 6 12:01 AM
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                      Hey Bobby:

                      you are correct, this needs to end. This type of thing does no one any
                      good. By the way you do know me. We see each other every year at the Atlanta
                      blade show. My wife and usually visit with you and you wife at your table.
                      Just look for the 6' 200 pound black man with the bald head, moustache and
                      goatee.

                      Eryk
                    • PROFLY001@aol.com
                      In a message dated 2/6/00 3:02:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, ESmith7051@aol.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 6 3:25 AM
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                        In a message dated 2/6/00 3:02:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        ESmith7051@... writes:

                        <<
                        Hey Bobby:

                        you are correct, this needs to end. This type of thing does no one any
                        good. By the way you do know me. We see each other every year at the Atlanta
                        blade show. My wife and usually visit with you and you wife at your table.
                        Just look for the 6' 200 pound black man with the bald head, moustache and
                        goatee.

                        Eryk
                        >>
                        I am sorry , after I read you post yesterday it finally dawned on me who you
                        were.
                        As I mentioned, Bob and I have a different history than most know about. I
                        try to deal in facts which Bob seems to have a hard time dealing in. I've
                        spoken my peace and now we will move on.I hope to see you again next year in
                        Atlanta.

                        Bobby
                      • D G
                        the only way this is going to end is for everyone to drop it. talking about stopping it just kees it going. Dennis
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 6 6:59 AM
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                          the only way this is going to end is for everyone to drop it. talking
                          about stopping it just kees it going.

                          Dennis
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