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Pius XII and resurrection on last day

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  • James
    I have to admit that Pope Pius XII s words in encyclical Munificentissimus Deus pretty much closes the door on any type of immediate resurrection for any one
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1, 2010
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      I have to admit that Pope Pius XII's words in encyclical Munificentissimus Deus pretty much closes the door on any type of immediate resurrection for any one other than Mary.  Unless you could claim other exemptions.  Pius writes:

      "...according to the general rule, God does not will to grant to the just the full effect of the victory over death until the end of time has come. And so it is that the bodies of even the just are corrupted after death, and only on the last day will they be joined, each to its own glorious soul.
      "

      Here Pius authoritataively echoes Aquinas.  The only question would seem to be how do you interpret separated soul in personal categories.  And what significance in terms of personal relations does the person of Mary (body and soul) have for the blessed separated souls before the last day?

      James
    • LukᚠNovák
      James, you are ignoring the scriptural evidence I have given, you are ignoring an official dogmatics of the Catholic Church. Will you also ignore the Catechism
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 1, 2010
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        James,

        you are ignoring the scriptural evidence I have
        given, you are ignoring an official dogmatics of
        the Catholic Church. Will you also ignore the
        Catechism of the Catholic Church?

        "§ 1001 - When? Definitively 'at the last day,'
        'at the end of the world.' Indeed, the
        resurrection of the dead is closely associated
        with Christ's Parousia: For the Lord himself will
        descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with
        the archangel's call, and with the sound of the
        trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise
        first."

        "§ 1002 - Christ will raise us up 'on the last
        day'..."

        "§ 1005 - To rise with Christ, we must die with
        Christ: we must 'be away from the body and at home
        with the Lord.' In that 'departure' which is
        death the soul is separated from the body. It
        will be reunited with the body on the day of
        resurrection of the dead."

        ---

        What DO you regard as an authoritative source of
        Catholic dogma, I wonder?

        So far you have played an advocate of Thomist
        orthodoxy, any non-thomist (Scotus, for example)
        was almost a heretic for you - and loo: when it
        comes to your own sore points in the dogma, your
        orthodoxy comes out as pretty elastic...

        Anyway, blessed Easter!

        Lukas



        James scripsit:

        > I have to admit that Pope Pius XII's words in encyclical
        > Munificentissimus Deus pretty much closes the door on any type of
        > immediate resurrection for any one other than Mary. Unless you could
        > claim other exemptions. Pius writes:

        > "...according to the general rule, God does not will to grant to the
        > just the full effect of the victory over death
        > until the end of time has
        > come. And so it is that the bodies of even the
        > just are corrupted after
        > death, and only on the last day will they be joined, each to its own
        > glorious soul."

        > Here Pius authoritataively echoes Aquinas. The
        > only question would seem
        > to be how do you interpret separated soul in
        > personal categories. And
        > what significance in terms of personal
        > relations does the person of Mary
        > (body and soul) have for the blessed separated souls before the last
        > day?

        > James
      • James
        Jesus Christ, Lukas, did you read what I wrote? Can you understand English? I gave the words of Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus. ... could ... Jesus
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 1, 2010
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          Jesus Christ, Lukas, did you read what I wrote? Can you understand English?  I gave the words of Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus.


          --- In thomism@yahoogroups.com, LukᚠNovák <lukas.novak@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > James,
          >
          > you are ignoring the scriptural evidence I have
          > given, you are ignoring an official dogmatics of
          > the Catholic Church. Will you also ignore the
          > Catechism of the Catholic Church?
          >
          > "§ 1001 - When? Definitively 'at the last day,'
          > 'at the end of the world.' Indeed, the
          > resurrection of the dead is closely associated
          > with Christ's Parousia: For the Lord himself will
          > descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with
          > the archangel's call, and with the sound of the
          > trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise
          > first."
          >
          > "§ 1002 - Christ will raise us up 'on the last
          > day'..."
          >
          > "§ 1005 - To rise with Christ, we must die with
          > Christ: we must 'be away from the body and at home
          > with the Lord.' In that 'departure' which is
          > death the soul is separated from the body. It
          > will be reunited with the body on the day of
          > resurrection of the dead."
          >
          > ---
          >
          > What DO you regard as an authoritative source of
          > Catholic dogma, I wonder?
          >
          > So far you have played an advocate of Thomist
          > orthodoxy, any non-thomist (Scotus, for example)
          > was almost a heretic for you - and loo: when it
          > comes to your own sore points in the dogma, your
          > orthodoxy comes out as pretty elastic...
          >
          > Anyway, blessed Easter!
          >
          > Lukas
          >
          >
          >
          > James scripsit:
          >
          > > I have to admit that Pope Pius XII's words in encyclical
          > > Munificentissimus Deus pretty much closes the door on any type of
          > > immediate resurrection for any one other than Mary. Unless you could
          > > claim other exemptions. Pius writes:
          >
          > > "...according to the general rule, God does not will to grant to the
          > > just the full effect of the victory over death
          > > until the end of time has
          > > come. And so it is that the bodies of even the
          > > just are corrupted after
          > > death, and only on the last day will they be joined, each to its own
          > > glorious soul."
          >
          > > Here Pius authoritataively echoes Aquinas. The
          > > only question would seem
          > > to be how do you interpret separated soul in
          > > personal categories. And
          > > what significance in terms of personal
          > > relations does the person of Mary
          > > (body and soul) have for the blessed separated souls before the last
          > > day?
          >
          > > James
          >
        • LukᚠNovák
          ... James, my sincerest apologies. I have missed that post of yours. Lukas
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 1, 2010
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            James scripsit:

            > Jesus Christ, Lukas, did you read what I wrote? Can you understand
            > English? I gave the words of Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus.

            James,

            my sincerest apologies. I have missed that post of yours.

            Lukas
          • James
            Yea, I think following Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus there are only two bodies in heaven, Jesus and Mary. Looks infallible, because you have Magisterium,
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 1, 2010
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              Yea, I think following Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus there are only two bodies in heaven, Jesus and Mary.  Looks infallible, because you have Magisterium, Scripture and tradition (except early Jewish Christianity and St. Jerome).  Seems to be God's justice that only the sinless have resurrection immediately.  And the separated souls cannot have their bodies until all justice is worked out in the end.

              James

              --- In thomism@yahoogroups.com, LukᚠNovák <lukas.novak@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > James scripsit:
              >
              > > Jesus Christ, Lukas, did you read what I wrote? Can you understand
              > > English? I gave the words of Pius XII in Munificentissimus Deus.
              >
              > James,
              >
              > my sincerest apologies. I have missed that post of yours.
              >
              > Lukas
              >
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