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Re: Personal Reflections on Universal Salvation

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  • sparksthomas
    1. Pope John Paul II has clearly been teaching that all are elect and predestined for heaven; he has explicitly stated that and has done so with reference to a
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2005
      1. Pope John Paul II has clearly been teaching that all are elect
      and predestined for heaven; he has explicitly stated that and has
      done so with reference to a passage from the Bible which has always
      been understood to refer to the predestination of the elect, who
      are "chosen and predestined".

      2. He has said that all are "forever united to Christ" and he has
      done so with explicit reference to the Bible passage which says that
      God intends to finally "unite all in Christ", which is historically
      associated with the doctrine of the Alexandrian Fathers of
      apokatastasis. In Catholic theology, people are "united with Christ"
      as his Mystical Body through the state of grace, which is sufficient
      for heaven at death. He has spoken of this in the context of saying
      that all are chosen and predestined.

      3. He has emphasised that God has a "plan" of universal salvation
      that he intends to accomplish. It includes everyone and passes over
      no one. Aquinas taught that God has a providential "plan" for the
      predestined while some are "passed over". The Holy Father's comments
      amount to saying, again, that all are predestined to glory, which is
      something that he is explicitly saying, any way.

      It is clear that Pope John Paul II has been saying that all are
      predestined to heaven and that all will be united with Christ
      forever in the final restoration of all things. Very many people
      have recognised that that is so, including most of the people in my
      parish whom I have spoken with in study and prayer groups.

      God is Love and eminently prudent, after all.

      I have begun to compile some resources to give some background
      information on the doctrine of apokatastasis, though the website may
      be about to disappear as the host is very right wing and has
      indicated his unwillingness to continue to host it.

      http://www.romancatholicism.org

      "`Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has
      blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
      places' (Eph. 1:3). These words of the Letter to the Ephesians
      reveal the eternal design of God the Father, his plan of man's
      salvation in Christ. It is a universal plan, which concerns all men
      and women created in the image and likeness of God (cf. Gen. 1:26).
      Just as all are included in the creative work of God `in the
      beginning,' so all are eternally included in the divine plan of
      salvation, which is to be completely revealed, in the `fullness of
      time,' with the final coming of Christ. In fact, the God who is
      the `Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'-these are the next words of
      the same Letter-`chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
      that we should be holy and blameless before him. He [pre]destined us
      in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the
      purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he
      freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption
      through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to
      the riches of his grace' (Eph. 1:4-7)." (Encyclical, Redemptoris
      Mater 7:1)

      "The Church's universal mission is born of faith in Jesus Christ, as
      is stated in our Trinitarian profession of faith: "I believe in one
      Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the
      Father.... For us men and for our salvation he came down from
      heaven: by the power of the Holy spirit he became incarnate from the
      Virgin Mary, and was made man." The redemption event brings
      salvation to all, "for each one is included in the mystery of the
      redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever
      through this mystery." ... Just as "by his incarnation the Son of
      God united himself in some sense with every human being," so too "we
      are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the
      possibility of sharing in the Paschal Mystery in a manner known to
      God." God's plan is "to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven
      and things on earth" (Eph 1:10)… It is necessary to keep these two
      truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ
      for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for salvation... We
      know, however, that Jesus came to bring integral salvation, one
      which embraces the whole person and all mankind, and opens up the
      wondrous prospect of divine filiation. Why mission? Because to us,
      as to St. Paul, "this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the
      unsearchable riches of Christ" (Eph 3:8). Newness of life in him is
      the "Good News" for men and women of every age: all are called to it
      and destined for it." (Encyclical, Redemptoris Missio 4, 6, 9, 11)

      "[The Church] is because of all that more serviceable for her
      mission of salvation for all: God 'desires all men to be saved and
      to come to the knowledge of the truth.' … Accordingly, what is in
      question here is man in all his truth, in his full magnitude. We are
      not dealing with the "abstract" man, but the
      real, "concrete", "historical" man. We are dealing with "each" man,
      for each one is included in the mystery of the Redemption and with
      each one Christ has united himself for ever through this mystery. …
      The [Second Vatican] Council points out this very fact when,
      speaking of that likeness, it recalls that "man is the only creature
      on earth that God willed for itself". Man as "willed" by God,
      as "chosen" by him from eternity and called, destined for grace and
      glory-this is "each" man, "the most concrete" man, "the most real";
      this is man in all the fullness of the mystery in which he has
      become a sharer in Jesus Christ, the mystery in which each one of
      the four thousand million human beings living on our planet has
      become a sharer from the moment he is conceived beneath the heart of
      his mother." (Encyclical Redemptor Hominis 5, 13)
    • Avbcl111@aol.com
      You just ignored what I said. He was reiterating recapitulation. May God bless and watch over John Paul the Great--more than a Christian, a little Christ. JMJ
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2005
        You just ignored what I said. He was reiterating recapitulation.
         
         
        May God bless and watch over John Paul the Great--more than a Christian, a little Christ.
         
        JMJ
        A.L. III
      • rafalrap
        Are you kidding? The Pope s encyclical clearly points to the reality that God the Father graciously intends and desires that all be saved, and the Church
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 2, 2005

          Are you kidding?  The Pope's encyclical clearly points to the reality that God the Father graciously intends and desires that all be saved, and the Church proclaiims the Good News in the shadow of God's gracious action at work universally to dispose mankind to the Good News,  This does not imply that all or even a majority will co-operate with God's grace.  Our predestination is heralded by our hatred of Sin and our re-orientation to do Good to our neighbor.   "For many are called, but few are chosen (the Kingdom).                                                                                                                     sparksthomas <sparksthomas@...> wrote:

          1. Pope John Paul II has clearly been teaching that all are elect
          and predestined for heaven; he has explicitly stated that and has
          done so with reference to a passage from the Bible which has always
          been understood to refer to the predestination of the elect, who
          are "chosen and predestined".

          2. He has said that all are "forever united to Christ" and he has
          done so with explicit reference to the Bible passage which says that
          God intends to finally "unite all in Christ", which is historically
          associated with the doctrine of the Alexandrian Fathers of
          apokatastasis. In Catholic theology, people are "united with Christ"
          as his Mystical Body through the state of grace, which is sufficient
          for heaven at death. He has spoken of this in the context of saying
          that all are chosen and predestined.

          3. He has emphasised that God has a "plan" of universal salvation
          that he intends to accomplish. It includes everyone and passes over
          no one. Aquinas taught that God has a providential "plan" for the
          predestined while some are "passed over". The Holy Father's comments
          amount to saying, again, that all are predestined to glory, which is
          something that he is explicitly saying, any way.

          It is clear that Pope John Paul II has been saying that all are
          predestined to heaven and that all will be united with Christ
          forever in the final restoration of all things. Very many people
          have recognised that that is so, including most of the people in my
          parish whom I have spoken with in study and prayer groups.

          God is Love and eminently prudent, after all.

          I have begun to compile some resources to give some background
          information on the doctrine of apokatastasis, though the website may
          be about to disappear as the host is very right wing and has
          indicated his unwillingness to continue to host it.

          http://www.romancatholicism.org

          "`Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has
          blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
          places' (Eph. 1:3). These words of the Letter to the Ephesians
          reveal the eternal design of God the Father, his plan of man's
          salvation in Christ. It is a universal plan, which concerns all men
          and women created in the image and likeness of God (cf. Gen. 1:26).
          Just as all are included in the creative work of God `in the
          beginning,' so all are eternally included in the divine plan of
          salvation, which is to be completely revealed, in the `fullness of
          time,' with the final coming of Christ. In fact, the God who is
          the `Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'-these are the next words of
          the same Letter-`chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
          that we should be holy and blameless before him. He [pre]destined us
          in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the
          purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he
          freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption
          through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to
          the riches of his grace' (Eph. 1:4-7)." (Encyclical, Redemptoris
          Mater 7:1)

          "The Church's universal mission is born of faith in Jesus Christ, as
          is stated in our Trinitarian profession of faith: "I believe in one
          Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the
          Father.... For us men and for our salvation he came down from
          heaven: by the power of the Holy spirit he became incarnate from the
          Virgin Mary, and was made man." The redemption event brings
          salvation to all, "for each one is included in the mystery of the
          redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever
          through this mystery." ... Just as "by his incarnation the Son of
          God united himself in some sense with every human being," so too "we
          are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the
          possibility of sharing in the Paschal Mystery in a manner known to
          God." God's plan is "to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven
          and things on earth" (Eph 1:10)� It is necessary to keep these two
          truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ
          for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for salvation... We
          know, however, that Jesus came to bring integral salvation, one
          which embraces the whole person and all mankind, and opens up the
          wondrous prospect of divine filiation. Why mission? Because to us,
          as to St. Paul, "this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the
          unsearchable riches of Christ" (Eph 3:8). Newness of life in him is
          the "Good News" for men and women of every age: all are called to it
          and destined for it." (Encyclical, Redemptoris Missio 4, 6, 9, 11)

          "[The Church] is because of all that more serviceable for her
          mission of salvation for all: God 'desires all men to be saved and
          to come to the knowledge of the truth.' � Accordingly, what is in
          question here is man in all his truth, in his full magnitude. We are
          not dealing with the "abstract" man, but the
          real, "concrete", "historical" man. We are dealing with "each" man,
          for each one is included in the mystery of the Redemption and with
          each one Christ has united himself for ever through this mystery. �
          The [Second Vatican] Council points out this very fact when,
          speaking of that likeness, it recalls that "man is the only creature
          on earth that God willed for itself". Man as "willed" by God,
          as "chosen" by him from eternity and called, destined for grace and
          glory-this is "each" man, "the most concrete" man, "the most real";
          this is man in all the fullness of the mystery in which he has
          become a sharer in Jesus Christ, the mystery in which each one of
          the four thousand million human beings living on our planet has
          become a sharer from the moment he is conceived beneath the heart of
          his mother." (Encyclical Redemptor Hominis 5, 13)





        • cazeno@webtv.net
          I will go along with the following by the Holy Father s Letter to Priests on Holy Thursday: 4.) Hoc est enim corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur. The body and
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 2, 2005
            I will go along with the following by the
            Holy Father's Letter to Priests on Holy
            Thursday:
            4.) Hoc est enim corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur. The body and blood
            of Christ are given for the salvation of the whole_man and of all_men.
            This salvation is integral_and at the same time universal_, because no
            one, unless
            he freely chooses, is excluded from the saving
            power of Christ's blood: qui pro vobis et pro
            multis effundetur. It is a sacrifice offered for
            "many", as the Biblical text says . . . this
            typical Semitic expression refers to the
            multitude who are saved by Christ, the one
            Redeemer, yet at the same time it implies
            the_totality_of_human_beings_ to whom
            salvtion is offered: the lord's blood is shed_
            for_you_and_for_all, as some translations
            legitimately makes explicit. Christ's flesh is
            truly given "for the life of the world" . . . .
            I would emphasize 'BECAUSE NO ONE,
            UNLESS HE FREELY CHOOSES, IS
            EXCLUDED FROM THE SAVING POWER
            OF CHRIST'S BLOOD." There will be
            some goats.
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