Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Sitting In A Room vs. Getting Some Fresh Air

Expand Messages
  • Sean Cooper
    ... no it s not, but neither is it the same difference (although the absence of a pronoun in your statements makes we wonder who it is is doing the
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
    • 0 Attachment
      > Music is such a fast moving thing that for a CD to be around and still
      > discussed five years after being made is a major achievement. How many
      > thousands of dance, rock and so on albums have were made in the last ten
      > years. How many were lauded as the current big thing within it's genre.
      > How many of those are even remembered? I maintain that musique concrete
      > endures because I have discovered that much ambient, processed noise, CD
      > created electronic music of the moment sounds like musique concrete of the
      > 50s. Listen to Rune Lindblad then Oval, or Morton Subotnick then recent
      > Tetsu Inoue, Farmer's Manual and Tod Dockstadder. While not having a go at
      > recent artists, what I thought was innovative was done with often far more
      > depth, conviction and purpose thirty or forty years ago. You could play
      > these artists to someone under an assumed name and they undoubtedly believe
      > they are new. I take your point that the mediocre works in the genre will
      > have dropped away. However the cutting edge of current music is not as far
      > forward as was thought.

      no it's not, but neither is it the same difference (although the absence
      of a pronoun in your statements makes we wonder who it is is doing the
      thinking...). most of the artists you mention are coming at
      electroacoustic experimentalism from an entirely different perspective
      than their '50s and '60s predecessors. you cite a lack of conviction in
      their music, but perhaps what you're hearing is a lack of interest in the
      contexts of experimentalism that are important to you (subotnik,
      dockstadder, etc.), that communicate "legitimacy." many of these recent
      artists are seeking to explore new sounds and new musical forms via more
      populist means. in recent interviews with tetsu inoue and atom heart, both
      expressed a total lack of interest in academicist avant-garde music,
      citing their distance from everyday musical concerns -- tetsu summed it
      up in his interest in "communicating with listeners." terre thaemlitz
      once told me that academic avant-garde music is far too "gestural" for his
      tastes. that's a clue to where he's coming from with his music,
      and i would suggest that each of the other artists whose significance you
      question might be communicating other such clues through their music.
      regardless of your or my passion for academicist music of the
      grm/ircam/ccrma/etc. variety, many of these artists do not find creative
      impetus in it. and to end your search for creative significance in these
      artists with a comparison to those that came before them, as if their
      concerns were the same, their musical ideas coterminous, is at best
      specious. you're, of course, free to do that, but i suggest you take
      another listen. there's more there than analogy.

      sc
    • Mark Coyle
      Hi ... What? I really can t be bothered responding to such statements. Why bother? You re taking this far too seriously. most of the artists you mention are
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi

        >no it's not, but neither is it the same difference (although the absence
        >of a pronoun in your statements makes we wonder who it is is doing the
        >thinking...).

        What? I really can't be bothered responding to such statements. Why
        bother? You're taking this far too seriously.

        most of the artists you mention are coming at
        >electroacoustic experimentalism from an entirely different perspective
        >than their '50s and '60s predecessors. you cite a lack of conviction in
        >their music, but perhaps what you're hearing is a lack of interest in the
        >contexts of experimentalism that are important to you (subotnik,
        >dockstadder, etc.),

        No, I discovered these earlier artists after collecting recent artists for a
        long while thinking "none of this has been done before" it was after this
        that I discovered musique concrete which I had been very suspicious of. I
        was forced to reappraise my thinking and it is only since that Subotnik,
        Dockstadder and others have taken on equal status to more recent works.
        However, it was the recent works that were important to me. I am thinking
        about these items in sound terms not artists.

        > that communicate "legitimacy." many of these recent
        >artists are seeking to explore new sounds and new musical forms via more
        >populist means. in recent interviews with tetsu inoue and atom heart, both
        >expressed a total lack of interest in academicist avant-garde music,
        >citing their distance from everyday musical concerns -- tetsu summed it
        >up in his interest in "communicating with listeners."

        That's why he's making music from train stations, something I wholly support
        but hardly populist.

        terre thaemlitz
        >once told me that academic avant-garde music is far too "gestural" for his
        >tastes. that's a clue to where he's coming from with his music,

        No it means he takes it all far too seriously

        >and i would suggest that each of the other artists whose significance you
        >question might be communicating other such clues through their music.
        >regardless of your or my passion for academicist music of the
        >grm/ircam/ccrma/etc. variety, many of these artists do not find creative
        >impetus in it. and to end your search for creative significance in these
        >artists with a comparison to those that came before them, as if their
        >concerns were the same, their musical ideas coterminous, is at best
        >specious. you're, of course, free to do that, but i suggest you take
        >another listen. there's more there than analogy.

        I stopped reading after the first line. Really. Go listen to some music.

        My one email about the Alvin Lucier email has now been pushed, stamped,
        filed and rejected. I do have to say that I am starting to wonder why I
        bother writing anything to the list. I'm sure others must feel like this.
        Very few people create new items, reviews, ideas etc to put to the list.
        However, those that do immediately get their text ripped to pieces. However
        others are not creating much of their own. I just feel it's all a bit one
        way.Makes me feel more defensive than I like to and also makes me
        feel.....oh why bother?

        Mark
      • Alex Stone
        ... Now wait a minute.... Hey, I ve only just joined and someone with an opinion is thinking of buggering off?!! What s going on? I was going to talk about
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
        • 0 Attachment
          >My one email about the Alvin Lucier email has now been pushed, stamped,
          >filed and rejected. I do have to say that I am starting to wonder why I
          >bother writing anything to the list. I'm sure others must feel like this.
          >Very few people create new items, reviews, ideas etc to put to the list.
          >However, those that do immediately get their text ripped to pieces. However
          >others are not creating much of their own. I just feel it's all a bit one
          >way.Makes me feel more defensive than I like to and also makes me
          >feel.....oh why bother?
          >
          Now wait a minute....
          Hey, I've only just joined and someone with an opinion is thinking of
          buggering off?!! What's going on?
          I was going to talk about Lucier but I'm scared now)
          Ill say something more interesting once I've sussed how shark-infested the
          waters are.
          Alex.
        • Alex Stone
          ... Hi. Just joined the list and already people with opinions are thinking of dropping out. What s going on? Some people might say certain music is
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
          • 0 Attachment
            >My one email about the Alvin Lucier email has now been pushed, stamped,
            >filed and rejected. I do have to say that I am starting to wonder why I
            >bother writing anything to the list. I'm sure others must feel like this.
            >Very few people create new items, reviews, ideas etc to put to the list.
            >However, those that do immediately get their text ripped to pieces. However
            >others are not creating much of their own. I just feel it's all a bit one
            >way.Makes me feel more defensive than I like to and also makes me
            >feel.....oh why bother?
            >
            Hi.
            Just joined the list and already people with opinions are thinking of
            dropping out. What's going on? Some people might say certain music is
            'difficult'. I prefer 'challenging'. Same goes for discusssion.
            Ill create new items etc. another time once the water becomes clear of
            blood! OK?
            Don't scare me off.

            Alex.
          • Mark Coyle
            Hi Alex, welcome to the waters. ... Okay. Minute waited. ... No don t worry, I won t bugger off. I m still around. It s the degree to which I ll post which
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Alex,

              welcome to the waters.

              >Now wait a minute....

              Okay. Minute waited.

              >Hey, I've only just joined and someone with an opinion is thinking of
              >buggering off?!! What's going on?

              No don't worry, I won't bugger off. I'm still around. It's the degree to
              which I'll post which was being considered.

              >I was going to talk about Lucier but I'm scared now)

              Precisely my point (without hijacking yours). People should be able to say
              what they like without fear of the text being ripped apart. I don't mind
              what opinions people have. Noone should feel intimidated and I gather that
              people do feel intimidated on the list. Precisely because what happens to
              me has happened to others and it shouldn't. All that happens is people
              stop posting, which is exactly what has happened on this list.

              >Ill say something more interesting once I've sussed how shark-infested the
              >waters are.

              As I say, any opinion is valid in my view. I for one would welcome your
              views as someone who has only very recently started exploring Lucier's work.

              Cheers
              Mark
            • Sean Cooper
              ... i read your previous statements of new vs. old as praising the latter for its depth and longevity while finding less of value in the former for being
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
              • 0 Attachment
                > No, I discovered these earlier artists after collecting recent artists for a
                > long while thinking "none of this has been done before" it was after this
                > that I discovered musique concrete which I had been very suspicious of. I
                > was forced to reappraise my thinking and it is only since that Subotnik,
                > Dockstadder and others have taken on equal status to more recent works.
                > However, it was the recent works that were important to me. I am thinking
                > about these items in sound terms not artists.

                i read your previous statements of new vs. old as praising the latter for
                its depth and longevity while finding less of value in the former
                for being comparatively less so. its simply **this comparison** i'm
                questioning the value of. i think what's interesting about newer
                electroacoustic artists has little to do with what's interesting about
                older electroacoustic artists, and to judge the one by the criteria of the
                other is unnecessarily reductive.

                i'm sorry if i came off brash in so stating. :)

                > That's why he's making music from train stations, something I wholly support
                > but hardly populist.

                have you heard the cd? (and it was *inspired* by a train station; he's
                never been there.)

                > >terre thaemlitz
                > >once told me that academic avant-garde music is far too "gestural" for his
                > >tastes. that's a clue to where he's coming from with his music,
                >
                > No it means he takes it all far too seriously

                well, that's what it tells you. it tells me that his music is less about
                making grand statements in the manner of the western classical
                tradition and more about something else entirely. it's the something else
                entirely that i think constitutes what's interesting about these artists,
                and that i would urge you to seek out in deciding on the value thereof.

                > >and i would suggest that each of the other artists whose significance you
                > >question might be communicating other such clues through their music.
                > >regardless of your or my passion for academicist music of the
                > >grm/ircam/ccrma/etc. variety, many of these artists do not find creative
                > >impetus in it. and to end your search for creative significance in these
                > >artists with a comparison to those that came before them, as if their
                > >concerns were the same, their musical ideas coterminous, is at best
                > >specious. you're, of course, free to do that, but i suggest you take
                > >another listen. there's more there than analogy.
                >
                > I stopped reading after the first line. Really. Go listen to some music.

                the whole point of my post was in this section, so i guess that's too
                bad you decided not to read it. my post was simply in response to a common
                knee-jerk reaction i've come across with respect to new music; that's it's
                just old music disguised as something new. again, if i was unnecessarily
                hasty in my assumptions -- clearly you have a passion for both new and old
                experimental music -- i apologize. i'm just sort of tired of hearing
                people diss oranges cuz they don't taste like apples.

                peace,

                sc

                onnow: kim cascone : blueCube (rastermusic)
              • Mark Coyle
                Hi ... What I found was that, if some of these artists had heard the previous works and given their research they may have done, they could have gone even
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi

                  >i read your previous statements of new vs. old as praising the latter for
                  >its depth and longevity while finding less of value in the former
                  >for being comparatively less so. its simply **this comparison** i'm
                  >questioning the value of.

                  What I found was that, if some of these artists had heard the previous works
                  and given their research they may have done, they could have gone even
                  further in exploring sound. If they haven't then fine. However, it seems
                  odd to me to produce works through more advanced technoligical means which
                  sound precisely the same as works from thirty years ago but took two years
                  to do. I think the music should perhaps stand for itself and the filtering
                  will take place over time.

                  > i think what's interesting about newer
                  >electroacoustic artists has little to do with what's interesting about
                  >older electroacoustic artists, and to judge the one by the criteria of the
                  >other is unnecessarily reductive.

                  Perhaps. But in pure sound terms, listening to them blind fold without for
                  the first time there would be very little difference and so there is a
                  continuaty there, deliberate or not.

                  >> That's why he's making music from train stations, something I wholly
                  support
                  >> but hardly populist.
                  >have you heard the cd? (and it was *inspired* by a train station; he's
                  >never been there.)

                  It uses sound recordings from the station. Who took them? I've not heard
                  it yet but seen a very long press statement about it.

                  >well, that's what it tells you. it tells me that his music is less about
                  >making grand statements in the manner of the western classical
                  >tradition and more about something else entirely. it's the something else
                  >entirely that i think constitutes what's interesting about these artists,
                  >and that i would urge you to seek out in deciding on the value thereof.

                  However, all that matters is what is on the vinyl, CD or the media received.
                  How it sounds is all that matters in the end. How the CD was made is
                  ultimately secondary to that as is the intent, imperative or any other
                  aspect. If in sound terms the work doesn't add up to much then anything
                  else is redundant.


                  >the whole point of my post was in this section, so i guess that's too
                  >bad you decided not to read it. my post was simply in response to a common
                  >knee-jerk reaction i've come across with respect to new music; that's it's
                  >just old music disguised as something new.

                  If you thought I said this you read too much between the lines. To defend
                  the origins of a sound is not to denegrate it's current form. There was no
                  such statement or implication. All the modern works you mention nestle
                  nicely next to the original works, I do not see any separation at all.
                  Sound evolves, it does not progress. I also do not believe that the new
                  works are just the old stuff recreated. I'm sure each was made for it's own
                  purpose. However, we should not assume we have only just reached this
                  point. The point has already been reached before through different tools.
                  Sound evolves.

                  again, if i was unnecessarily
                  >hasty in my assumptions -- clearly you have a passion for both new and old
                  >experimental music -- i apologize. i'm just sort of tired of hearing
                  >people diss oranges cuz they don't taste like apples.

                  I like both, pears as well.

                  >peace,


                  Indeed

                  On now - Gordon Hempton - Rolling Thunder, 60 minutes of the best storm and
                  weather afterwards, perfectly captured and very very cheap.

                  Cheers
                  Mark
                • Alex Stone
                  That was quick! I m also new on the net so may I be allowed a little wide-eyed naivety? May I also be forgiven for sending another version of the same email
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That was quick! I'm also new on the net so may I be allowed a little
                    wide-eyed naivety? May I also be forgiven for sending another version of
                    the same email thinking the first one hadn't gone? Won't be so crap in
                    future.

                    Thanks for the welcome.
                    >
                    Anyone heard Lucier's brainwave music? Haven't got time to talk about it now.

                    Back later.
                    >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
                    >service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
                    >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
                  • Mark Coyle
                    Hi ... now. I ve got Clocker which had some brainwave interaction. Taking some time with this, headphones help. Need an undisturbed environment, hard to get
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi

                      >Anyone heard Lucier's brainwave music? Haven't got time to talk about it
                      now.

                      I've got Clocker which had some brainwave interaction. Taking some time
                      with this, headphones help. Need an undisturbed environment, hard to get
                      with a new young son.

                      Cheers
                      Mark
                    • Sean Cooper
                      ... again, this assumes that exploring sound is the point of these artists work, as it was with henry, schaeffer, cage, risset, etc. that may or may not be
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > What I found was that, if some of these artists had heard the previous works
                        > and given their research they may have done, they could have gone even
                        > further in exploring sound. If they haven't then fine. However, it seems
                        > odd to me to produce works through more advanced technoligical means which
                        > sound precisely the same as works from thirty years ago but took two years
                        > to do. I think the music should perhaps stand for itself and the filtering
                        > will take place over time.

                        again, this assumes that "exploring sound" is the point of these artists'
                        work, as it was with henry, schaeffer, cage, risset, etc. that may or may
                        not be the case; as i said previously, in the case of at least inoue
                        and atom heart, it's not.

                        > > i think what's interesting about newer
                        > >electroacoustic artists has little to do with what's interesting about
                        > >older electroacoustic artists, and to judge the one by the criteria of the
                        > >other is unnecessarily reductive.
                        >
                        > Perhaps. But in pure sound terms, listening to them blind fold without for
                        > the first time there would be very little difference and so there is a
                        > continuaty there, deliberate or not.

                        unfortunately i can't listen to music "in pure sound terms." i find
                        that how i hear music has as much to do with the complex of
                        socio-cultural, historical, economic, etc. forces in which i find both it
                        and myself as it does with anything like purely objective musical content
                        (of which, in any case, i think there is perhaps none...).

                        > It uses sound recordings from the station. Who took them? I've not heard
                        > it yet but seen a very long press statement about it.

                        i think there are some field recordings used in the first track, but
                        overall the only direct relationship the recording bears to the actual
                        station is in tetsu's having scanned schematics of the building into
                        MetaSynth and used them to generate the raw musical material from which
                        the cd was composed.

                        > >well, that's what it tells you. it tells me that his music is less about
                        > >making grand statements in the manner of the western classical
                        > >tradition and more about something else entirely. it's the something else
                        > >entirely that i think constitutes what's interesting about these artists,
                        > >and that i would urge you to seek out in deciding on the value thereof.
                        >
                        > However, all that matters is what is on the vinyl, CD or the media received.
                        > How it sounds is all that matters in the end. How the CD was made is
                        > ultimately secondary to that as is the intent, imperative or any other
                        > aspect. If in sound terms the work doesn't add up to much then anything
                        > else is redundant.

                        i disagree (sort of). as above, we don't hear music in a vaccuum (although
                        a la cage you do hear your blood and central nervous system, etc.)...
                        removed from this whole discussion, that's one of the things i find most
                        interesting about music generally. how we hear music -- how we come to
                        judge its value, its significance, its "meaning" -- is so much
                        more complicated than any recourse to historical fact can ever organize.

                        > However, we should not assume we have only just reached this
                        > point. The point has already been reached before through different tools.
                        > Sound evolves.

                        i agree. however, i don't think the points are the same.

                        has anybody on this list read hal foster's _return of the real_? there's a
                        fascinating discussion of the american avant garde of abstract
                        expressionism and what he terms the "neo-avant garde" of '50s minimalism
                        and pop. he traces the relationship between the two, noting points of
                        overlap and points of disjunction, and argues how the appropriations of
                        the latter help to clarify and articulate the innovations of the latter
                        through a complex dialog of recontextualization and historical deferral.
                        i'm increasingly seeing the relationship between what robert henke terms
                        "the old guys" of electroacoustic music and this new school. recommended
                        book, anyway...

                        sc
                      • Alex Stone
                        ... Need an undisturbed environment, hard to get ... Well done with the new son. Don t be concerned - my 6 year old daughter has been exposed to interesting
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >

                          Need an undisturbed environment, hard to get
                          >with a new young son.
                          >
                          Well done with the new son. Don't be concerned - my 6 year old daughter has
                          been exposed to interesting music from an early age and shows no signs of
                          damage. She likes Lee Scratch Perry quite a lot at the moment (maybe
                          because he's a clown) and although children do like identifiable tunes,
                          I've found they are also capable of listening to (not necessarily tonal)
                          sound ideas and appreciating them. My partner, on the other hand...

                          >I've got Clocker which had some brainwave interaction. Taking some time
                          >with this, headphones help.

                          I was thinking more about Music For Solo Performer. Don't think I know Clocker.

                          A bientot.

                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
                          >service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
                          >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
                        • Mark Coyle
                          Alex. all sorted, don t worry. Debate does get intense. Don t be put off though. Dive in. I ll cover you........ cheers Mark
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Alex.

                            all sorted, don't worry. Debate does get intense. Don't be put off though.
                            Dive in. I'll cover you........

                            cheers
                            Mark
                          • Mark Coyle
                            Hi ... Once more you re reading far too many specifics into my words. ... But I don t believe that is the case with every piece of music. Music can be good
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 6, 1998
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi

                              >again, this assumes that "exploring sound" is the point of these artists'
                              >work, as it was with henry, schaeffer, cage, risset, etc. that may or may
                              >not be the case; as i said previously, in the case of at least inoue
                              >and atom heart, it's not.

                              Once more you're reading far too many specifics into my words.

                              >unfortunately i can't listen to music "in pure sound terms." i find
                              >that how i hear music has as much to do with the complex of
                              >socio-cultural, historical, economic, etc. forces in which i find both it
                              >and myself as it does with anything like purely objective musical content
                              >(of which, in any case, i think there is perhaps none...).

                              But I don't believe that is the case with every piece of music. Music can be
                              good without such complications.

                              >i disagree (sort of). as above, we don't hear music in a vaccuum (although
                              >a la cage you do hear your blood and central nervous system, etc.)...
                              >removed from this whole discussion, that's one of the things i find most
                              >interesting about music generally. how we hear music -- how we come to
                              >judge its value, its significance, its "meaning" -- is so much
                              >more complicated than any recourse to historical fact can ever organize.

                              So if you hear a piece of music on a radio, you have never heard of it, know
                              nothing about it but like it immensely, what else but sound are you judging
                              it on?

                              >has anybody on this list read hal foster's _return of the real_? there's a
                              >fascinating discussion of the american avant garde of abstract
                              >expressionism and what he terms the "neo-avant garde" of '50s minimalism
                              >and pop. he traces the relationship between the two, noting points of
                              >overlap and points of disjunction, and argues how the appropriations of
                              >the latter help to clarify and articulate the innovations of the latter
                              >through a complex dialog of recontextualization and historical deferral.
                              >i'm increasingly seeing the relationship between what robert henke terms
                              >"the old guys" of electroacoustic music and this new school. recommended
                              >book, anyway...

                              I give up. Live's for living not for analysing. In the most positive move
                              of the week, I'm resigning from the list and going exploring music. I've
                              stopped worrying, in a way you've made me quite happy. Just go listen and
                              like it or not.

                              Cheers
                              Mark
                              >
                              >sc
                              >
                              >
                              >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
                              >service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
                              >http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
                            • Alex Stone
                              ... Hi ... Does that mean you re going to stop reading The Wire as well? Ok, we ve all heard the writing about music is like dancing about painting argument,
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                              • 0 Attachment
                                >From: "Mark Coyle" <MCOYLE1@...>
                                >
                                Hi

                                >I give up. Live's for living not for analysing. In the most positive move
                                >of the week, I'm resigning from the list and going exploring music. I've
                                >stopped worrying, in a way you've made me quite happy. Just go listen and
                                >like it or not.

                                Does that mean you're going to stop reading The Wire as well? Ok, we've all heard the 'writing about music is like dancing about painting' argument, but why not enjoy both the music and the analysis?

                                The trouble with a lot of interesting music is that it isn't populist - so you can't get to hear it. It's hard to divorce information from opinion - and particularly using this medium where no-one's editing. But I, for one, need to read about music when I can't easily find it to listen to.

                                Sometimes, the reading is more pleasurable than the listening. Sometimes I've bought a recording speculatively, liked it, and then read a review that says it stinks. And vice versa. The ReR catalogue can be as mouth watering as a cookbook. It can also be immensely misleading.

                                The process behind the music can be more interesting than the music itself. Sometimes not. Am I wrong to jump straight to the second half of I Am Sitting In A Room these days? A score can be read as well as listened to. Some scores can be enjoyed as graphic art (eg Cardew's The Great Learning), where one might think the realisation is unlistenable (I don't!) Other musics don't exist beyond the score (Ono, Paik, Cage etc). It goes on - but aren't we here to explore it all?

                                Music is not just about sound, these days, any more than art is just about paint or stone. Explore, yes, but tell us what you've found!

                                Cheers, Alex.
                              • Jason Witherspoon
                                ... Whether it s attributed to Frank Zappa, Max Horkheimer, or Tweety Bird, it s always been writing about music is like dancing about architecture . Don t
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  At 1:47 AM -0700 10/7/98, Alex Stone wrote:
                                  >Ok, we've all heard the 'writing about music is like dancing about
                                  >painting' argument

                                  Whether it's attributed to Frank Zappa, Max Horkheimer, or Tweety Bird,
                                  it's always been "writing about music is like dancing about architecture".

                                  Don't really know why I felt the need to defend that epithet's integrity....

                                  Jason Witherspoon

                                  ---------
                                  --- ---
                                  --- ---
                                  ---------
                                  ---------
                                  --- ---
                                  com/~arz
                                  http://www.best.com/~arzachel
                                  www.best.com/~arzachel
                                  best.com/~a
                                • Nick Rothwell
                                  ... I liked it. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control You ve read
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > My one email about the Alvin Lucier email has now been pushed, stamped,
                                    > filed and rejected.

                                    I liked it.

                                    --
                                    Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects
                                    http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control

                                    You've read the rant, now buy the album: http://www.cassiel.com/listenmove/
                                  • Nick Rothwell
                                    ... That s how it should be, but to the chattering classes and the media, there s a lot of peripheral hype and fashion which has a lot to do with a project s
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      > However, all that matters is what is on the vinyl, CD or the media
                                      > received. How it sounds is all that matters in the end.

                                      That's how it should be, but to the chattering classes and the media,
                                      there's a lot of peripheral hype and fashion which has a lot to do
                                      with a project's exposure, dissemination and success in any commercial
                                      sense.

                                      --
                                      Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects
                                      http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control

                                      You've read the rant, now buy the album: http://www.cassiel.com/listenmove/
                                    • Nick Rothwell
                                      ... What about a square dance? -- Laurie Anderson. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > Whether it's attributed to Frank Zappa, Max Horkheimer, or Tweety Bird,

                                        ... or Elvis Costello or ...

                                        > it's always been "writing about music is like dancing about architecture".

                                        "What about a square dance?" -- Laurie Anderson.

                                        --
                                        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects
                                        http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control

                                        You've read the rant, now buy the album: http://www.cassiel.com/listenmove/
                                      • Alex Stone
                                        ... Sounds better, doesn t it? Ok, you got me. So where did Nick and Jason get the statement of attribution from? That said, what about discussing the point,
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Oct 7, 1998
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          >Whether it's attributed to Frank Zappa, Max Horkheimer, or Tweety Bird,
                                          >it's always been "writing about music is like dancing about architecture".
                                          >
                                          >Don't really know why I felt the need to defend that epithet's integrity....
                                          >

                                          Sounds better, doesn't it? Ok, you got me. So where did Nick and Jason get
                                          the statement of attribution from?

                                          That said, what about discussing the point, not the accuracy?

                                          Yours not-so-pedantically,

                                          Alex.
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.