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Re: keeping up, or not

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  • themoonstealingproject@yahoo.com
    ... to ... I liked it fine enough.... still don t get what all the hoopla is all about. I probably couldn t seperate this from their other releases in a blind
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 2, 2000
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      > > BTW, am I the only person impressed by the new GSYBE?
      >
      > Nope - it's growing on me, especially the second disc. The
      > production's a bit thin though - perhaps they can get Jim Steinman
      to
      > do the next one...


      I liked it fine enough.... still don't get what all the hoopla is all
      about. I probably couldn't seperate this from their other releases in
      a blind taste test. It just seemed very formulaic to me.

      Formulaic......but........ummmm......nice




      jason___
    • Manuel V. Cabrera Jr.
      i agree. besides, my impression has been that a good number of napsterites are folks like myself--college students, who have little money and access to
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 2, 2000
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        i agree. besides, my impression has been that a good number of napsterites are
        folks like myself--college students, who have little money and access to high-speed
        connections. the problem i have with napster is simply that mp3's aren't usually of
        very good quality--often badly encoded, plus the fact that they are compressed
        files, they simply aren't as good as most cd's. but who can look a gift horse in
        the mouth? besides, as long as mp files are of poorer quality than original
        recordings, this may keep people buying those original recordings. of course, all
        the rarities i've found on napster: many of them are songs i couldn't find anywhere
        else for a reasonable price.

        manuel cabrera

        Steven Taylor wrote:

        > kevin king wrote:
        >
        > > > Although Napster has just opened me up to so much new stuff I too
        > > > feel swamped..
        > >
        > > One of the most provocative statements I've read in reaction to Napster is
        > > the last line of the otherwise not-so-terribly-informative article by Philip
        > > Sherburne in this month's issue:
        > >
        > > "But could it be that there's just too much music out there, and that the
        > > structures we impose on top of it... serve mainly to sort it out, to create
        > > value where value is so dubious?"
        >
        > I dont really have a strong opinion either way on the above comment, but in
        > general I found that article to be one of the most naive and uninformed pieces
        > ive ever read in the Wire. The list of URLs was excellent and it has turned me
        > on to many new sites, I just wish the Napster article was written with actual
        > experience of the phenomenon and the community that has sprung up around it.
        > (Was there even a mention of software such as Napigator, which helps you search
        > for specialist music?)
        >
        > To suggest that most people dont use Napster because it is too slow is not my
        > experience at all. This is disproven by the sheer numbers of people connecting
        > using 56k modems that come up everytime I search (especially for more obscure
        > items).
        > When I find a track that I have been tracking down for 5 years, im perfectly
        > willing to wait an hour or 2 for it to download, as are the countless people who
        > have connected to me and downloaded large files over multiple hours. ISPs such
        > as Freeserve in the UK do not make these exchanges quick but they do make them
        > FREE.
        >
        > Maybe the magazine should turn to this mailing list for pointers when writing
        > this kind of article and save face next time.
        >
        > Steve
        >
        >
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        >
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      • sunfish
        ... they ... this a ... located at ... penalize ... Maybe not, as Napster is enfolded in BMG s wings most other artists will be on line for a piece of what
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 2, 2000
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          > Agree, but if Napster will charge me for linking to a bunch of faulty MP3s
          they
          > really don´t have a very attractive product to offer. Of course, making
          this a
          > centralized endeavour, where there´s a pool of properly encoded MP3s
          located at
          > a stable server, would definitely make it easy for record companies to
          penalize
          > them, so I can see the problem(s).
          >
          > Guess buying CDs still has its place. ;)
          >
          > /Øivind/
          >
          Maybe not, as Napster is enfolded in BMG's wings most other artists will be
          on line for a piece of what money it can raise. So most artists will be ok
          to swap (whent hey are paid for it)- so maybe there will be some limited
          upload space for the new 'paid up' members if only to keep a better eye on
          what's being swapped- hey can I get a piece of that cash Mr.?
          Chi
        • kevin king
          ... But, as more and more people get faster bandwith... and a wider variety of file share software becomes available, Napster won t even matter. Furthermore,
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 2, 2000
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            > Maybe not, as Napster is enfolded in BMG's wings most other
            > artists will be
            > on line for a piece of what money it can raise. So most artists will be ok
            > to swap (whent hey are paid for it)- so maybe there will be some limited
            > upload space for the new 'paid up' members if only to keep a better eye on
            > what's being swapped- hey can I get a piece of that cash Mr.?

            But, as more and more people get faster bandwith... and a wider variety of
            file share software becomes available, Napster won't even matter.
            Furthermore, if Napster hadn't started this fuss, something else would have.
            (I disagree about the inability to rip at cd quality.. if this were true,
            the same uproar would have happened over realaudio). Regardless, it's the
            increasing transferability of data that's at issue. And as everything more
            and moreso becomes data, well...

            I don't think any of the recent goings on even begins to solve the problem
            of copyright. It's a logical, inevitable move for both Napster and BMG...
            but ultimately it's based on a threatened paradigm. File sharing will
            continue one way or another (I think most pro-napster arguments I've read to
            be narrow and ethically false, but this fact must be realized). Encryption
            of data will only provide speed bumps, as will 'official' sites. Unless
            content creators (whether they be musicians, writers, photographers or
            software developers) want to keep chasing their tails on this issue, a whole
            new paradigm has to be worked out. Perhaps this isn't possible within a
            system so reliant on ownership and property value. I don't pretend to have
            the answer, but this BMG deal ain't it.
          • John Farrar
            ... they ... this a ... located at ... penalize ... Actually, I don t use Napster for the very reason you have identified. I was merely pointing out that it
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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              > John Farrar wrote:
              >
              > > Bit of shooting the messenger. Napster is just the medium for linking
              > > seekers to tracks. It's hardly their fault if people have crap
              > > communications equipment and mp3s.
              >
              Øivind wrote:
              > Agree, but if Napster will charge me for linking to a bunch of faulty MP3s
              they
              > really don´t have a very attractive product to offer. Of course, making
              this a
              > centralized endeavour, where there´s a pool of properly encoded MP3s
              located at
              > a stable server, would definitely make it easy for record companies to
              penalize
              > them, so I can see the problem(s).
              >
              > Guess buying CDs still has its place. ;)

              Actually, I don't use Napster for the very reason you have identified. I
              was merely pointing out that it wasn't necessarily the author of Napster's
              fault. I tend to use services like http://www.listen.lycos.com/ to find
              stuff and then its either free or if I want it, I'll buy it from people like
              E-music. From a Brit point of view downloading an album (last one was
              Merzbow/Gore Beyond Necropsy) for $8.99 is damned good value - even after
              adding the cost of phone connection here.

              John
            • simonsmith@readingchronicle.co.uk
              ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [thewire] keeping up, or not Author: MIME:jfarrar@unisonfree.net
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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                ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
                Subject: Re: [thewire] keeping up, or not
                Author: MIME:jfarrar@... at INTERNET
                Date: 03/11/2000 09:47


                True, and this is going to sound very shallow, but don't you miss the packaging??!! Especially some lovely Merzbow-esque-isms.

                A row of Tandy-bought CDs or MiniDiscs or somesuch doesn't quite have the aesthetic appeal of a room full of assorted vinyl, CDs in all kinds of shapes and design and a mountain of tapes occasionally tidied up into random plastic bags. Or is that just me?

                I told you it would sound shallow


                > John Farrar wrote:

                From a Brit point of view downloading an album (last one was Merzbow/Gore Beyond Necropsy) for $8.99 is damned good value - even after adding the cost of phone connection here.




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              • Jess Harvell
                ... Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day...and yes, I do... My copy of Godspeed s Slow Riot EP was crushed in the trunk of a friends car
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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                  >don't you miss the packaging??!!

                  Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day...and yes, I do...
                  My copy of Godspeed's "Slow Riot" EP was crushed in the trunk of a friends
                  car during a recent accident and, being broke, I went to download it...when
                  I looked at the completed product (blank faced CDR with the name and titled
                  scribbled on it in black felt tip,) it seemed...unequal to the music
                  contained on...especially compared to the quality of the orignal
                  packaging...

                  All of my CDR's (bought in one those ridiculous bulk packs) sit in a slim,
                  zippered binder, easily overlooked, and rather glum on my bookshelf...when
                  searching out a listen I often forget they're even there...

                  Ultimately the quality of the music is all that matters...but, the overall
                  package does add to the experience...

                  -Sprout
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                • Davis Ford
                  ... In my honest opinion - there will never be a business plan that can put an end to broadband file-sharing of music. It is, without argue, impossible to
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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                    > I don't think any of the recent goings on even begins to solve the problem
                    > of copyright. It's a logical, inevitable move for both Napster and BMG...
                    > but ultimately it's based on a threatened paradigm. File sharing will
                    > continue one way or another (I think most pro-napster arguments I've read to
                    > be narrow and ethically false, but this fact must be realized). Encryption
                    > of data will only provide speed bumps, as will 'official' sites. Unless
                    > content creators (whether they be musicians, writers, photographers or
                    > software developers) want to keep chasing their tails on this issue, a whole
                    > new paradigm has to be worked out. Perhaps this isn't possible within a
                    > system so reliant on ownership and property value. I don't pretend to have
                    > the answer, but this BMG deal ain't it.

                    In my honest opinion - there will never be a business plan that can put
                    an end
                    to broadband file-sharing of music. It is, without argue, impossible to
                    stop
                    it. You can shut Napster down, and all the others, but you can't stop
                    broadband
                    file sharing. Encrypting files, etc., no one will download
                    those, because their friend can encode the album at high-bit-rate with
                    no encryption
                    and they can ftp it from them. The only thing that is posing as the
                    real limiter
                    right now, is lack of high-speed access for many people (still using
                    modems), and
                    the big telco companies are working hard and fast to beat each other at
                    grabbing
                    the most market share for this.

                    In my honest opinion, compact discs / vinyl will always exist as
                    entities and will
                    sell because people want the whole package, or they feel guilty, or
                    both.

                    I also have archives and archives of mp3 cd's - of which I've only had a
                    small slice
                    of time to listen to...(if you want to get an idea..see my homepage)
                    I consider it a godsend, because I can now be much more discriminitave
                    (is that a word?) about what I buy. The other day, I bought Sleep's
                    Jerusalem, and some
                    other albums I had on mp3 simply because they really struck a chord with
                    me..I wanted
                    to give some money to the artist..I wanted to blast it in my car..I
                    wanted the artwork, etc.
                    I also bought another record that was recommended somewhere else for
                    people who are
                    fans of the record I was buying as a result of having the album on mp3
                    (that's a long sentence, eh?).

                    However, I won't pay for mp3 albums (at least not today) - I consider it
                    more as a really
                    thorough musical intro system (much like the listening stations you see
                    at record stores, but
                    much, much better, and you can pick the albums). I also consider it a
                    relatively easy means
                    by which I can introduce someone else to something that I really like,
                    and then they can
                    go forth and explore further. This is what it's like on usenet, for
                    instance. most all of
                    us in there are mad posters who want other people to hear the albums
                    that we want to tell
                    the world about. I can honestly say, that there are almost no bands /
                    artists I can think
                    of in my head that I've always wanted to hear....simply because I've
                    pretty much heard them
                    all now, thanks to the Internet. Now, going to a record store is pretty
                    easy, and I don't
                    buy blindly - I buy a record cuz I know it's good.

                    davis
                  • John Farrar
                    ... packaging??!! Especially some lovely Merzbow-esque-isms. ... aesthetic appeal of a room full of assorted vinyl, CDs in all kinds of shapes and design and a
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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                      Simon Smith wrote:
                      > True, and this is going to sound very shallow, but don't you miss the
                      packaging??!! Especially some lovely Merzbow-esque-isms.
                      >
                      > A row of Tandy-bought CDs or MiniDiscs or somesuch doesn't quite have the
                      aesthetic appeal of a room full of assorted vinyl, CDs in all kinds of
                      shapes and design and a mountain of tapes occasionally tidied up into random
                      plastic bags. Or is that just me?
                      >
                      > I told you it would sound shallow

                      Ah well, nothing really beats a good quality 12" gatefold cover does it!!!

                      I remember people getting very uptight about CDs as being useless for
                      packaging - no-one seemed to take pre-recorded cassettes seriously anyway.

                      However, I can put pictures in RealJukebox and have them on screen - not the
                      same but.....

                      John
                    • sunfish
                      Perhaps this isn t possible within a ... have ... Oh I agree totally. Anyway, who s going to pay- not everyone that s for sure? I was pointing out the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 3, 2000
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                        Perhaps this isn't possible within a
                        > system so reliant on ownership and property value. I don't pretend to
                        have
                        > the answer, but this BMG deal ain't it.
                        >
                        >
                        Oh I agree totally. Anyway, who's going to pay- not everyone that's for
                        sure? I was pointing out the immediate (possible) consequences of the
                        Napster/BMG situation. I'd like my music to be on that system (in theory-I
                        don't need or want payment) if I get paid everytime someone transfers, (or
                        as I was suggesting, downloads) a tune.
                        Unless we have an MP3.com situation- only the popular acts get paid-
                        everybody else working to get them paid as usual!
                        As ever we can only see a very short way into the future (haha) but it seems
                        obvious from everybody that a free swap service will survive whatever!
                        Chi
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