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experimental rock map compilation tapes

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  • Franco Ingrassia
    planetax@geocities.com I call experimental rock to the music that takes place from that common edge, from that gray zone that exists between experimental music
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 28, 1999
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      planetax@...

      I call experimental rock to the music that takes place from that common edge, from that gray zone that exists between experimental music and rock. This gray zone acquires, at different moments and places, singular configurations: psychedelia, krautrock, no-wave, industrial, electronic music, post-rock. That point of crossing in perpetual metamorphosis that forces to a permanent deflection.

      Recently, I have assembled a series of 30min tapes on experimental rock. This are not intended for comercial distribution, they are basicaly personal, and for friends.

      They were made to give, within 30 minutes, a glimpse of the genre. They should worl as an introduction for people who never heard this stuff before but are starting to get interested.

      Some of the tapes aren�t exactly about experimental rock (like the one on minimalism, and I can hear the return of controversy) but to me it seemed important music that affected experimental rock (a music constructed in the borders) in some way.

      I�ve made this tapes with the cds I have access to. I�m sure that they can be improved.

      I would love to hear some suggestions, opinions, corrections, comments, insults, etc...
      New tapes could be proposed, corrections could be made, alternative selections, etc.


      1. New Electronics (93-97)

      side a:

      cipater (autechre, chiastic slide)
      inkey$ (aphex twin, richard d james album)
      hayfever (speedy j)
      schlektron (mouse on mars, iaora tahiti)

      side b:

      shunt (panasonic, a remixed recoil track)
      start as you mean to go on (aphex twin, i care because you do)
      mediation (oval, systemisch)

      2. Post-Rock (93-96)

      side a:

      glass museum (tortoise, millions now living will never die)
      cybele�s reviere (stereolab, emperor tomato ketchup)
      wedding in the park (gastr del sol, croockt crackt or fly)
      red river (laika, silver apples from the moon)

      side b:

      joker john (moonshake, the sound your eyes can follow)
      kissing the sun (young gods, only heaven)
      polyfusion (seefeel, quique)

      3. Krautrock (71-74)

      side a:

      oh yeah (can, tago mago)
      utopia no.1 (amon d��l, utopia)
      phaedra (edit) (tangerine dream)

      side b:

      tonebirge (kraftwerk, ralph & florian)
      spoon (can, ege bamyasi)
      krautrock (faust, faust IV)

      4. Ambient (82-96)

      side a:

      matta (brian eno, apollo)
      net (seefeel, ch-vox)
      maser (part 1) (main, maser)

      side b:

      dunwich beach, autum, 1960 (brian eno, on land)
      vietrmx21 (autechre, tri repetae)

      5. Continental Europe Rock (74-81)

      side a:

      ethica von ethika (franco batiatto, clic)
      l�elefante bianco (area, crac)
      toxica (plastic people, egon bondy�s happy hearts club banned)
      circus apparatha (edit) (samla mammas manna, maltid)

      side b:

      jsou z postupic (DG 307)
      dense (univers zero, ceux du dehors)

      6. Noise (85-93)

      side a:

      the living end (the jesus & mary chain, psychocandy)
      sue is fine (my bloody valentine, isn�t anything)
      pile-up (swervedriver, rise)
      kaleidoscope (ride, nowhere)
      loose my breath (my bloody valentine, isn�t anything)

      side b:

      drunken butterfly (sonic youth, dirty)
      when the sun hits (slowdive, souvlaki space station)
      heaven�s end (loop, heaven�s end)
      kissability (sonic youth, daydream nation)

      7. Industrial music (79-93)

      side a:

      gestohlenes ban (orf) (einst�rzende neubauten, strategien gegen architekturen)
      krieg in den stadten (einst�rzende neubauten, strategien gegen architekturen)
      eastern mantra (edit) (cabaret voltaire, three mantras)
      see you are (throbbing gristle)

      side b:

      headcleaner (edit) (einst�rzende neubauten, tabula rasa)
      coco pina (daf)
      a thirty fish/the dirty fire (hafler trio)
      candy man (monte cazazza)

      8. Low-fi (87-98)

      side a:

      red men and their wives (guided by voices, under the bushes, under the stars)
      kid of harith (will oldham)
      wild love (smog, wild love)
      perfume-v (pavement, slanted & enchanted)
      ride the darker wave (sebadoh, weed forestin)
      pimple zoo (guided by voices, alien lanes)

      side b:

      candle (smog, wild love)
      useless landscape (movietone)
      the official ironmen rally song (guided by voices, under the bushes under the stars)
      stop the wheel (sebadoh, the freed man)
      king & caroline (guided by voices, alien lanes)

      9. Minimalism (64-73)

      side a:

      in C (edit) (terry riley)

      side b:

      music for mallet instruments, voices and organs (steve reich)

      10. atonal music (34-93)

      side a:

      sonatas V-VIII (john cage)
      sextet (edit) (steve reich)

      side b:

      six short inventions for seven instruments (john cage)
      tener el aprendiz al sol (juan pablo simoniello)

      coming up: dub, psychedelia, bossa nova, post-punk, free jazz....

      franco
    • Per-Christian Hille
      Love making tapes such as this myself. Here s some suggestions (based on ... Neu (+ La Dusseldorf and Harmonia), early Popul Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel ... Boredoms
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1, 1999
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        Love making tapes such as this myself. Here's some suggestions (based on
        personal taste obviously) for additions and new genres:

        >> 3. Krautrock
        Neu (+ La Dusseldorf and Harmonia), early Popul Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel

        >> 6. Noise
        Boredoms should definately be on there; their latest "Boredoms aR" was one
        of 98s best

        >> 10. atonal music
        Have you checked out Harry Partch?

        >> coming up: dub, psychedelia, bossa nova, post-punk, free jazz....
        On the dub tape, will you differentiating between Jamaican reggae-based dub
        (King Tubby, Lee Perry, Augustos Pablo +++ would need to be on it) and
        recent electronica based dub?

        What are you putting on the Bossa tape? There's so much incredible Brazilian
        music that isn't Bossa Nova, that I could probably fill at least 10 tapes of
        stuff.

        How about a soundtrack tape? Ennio Morricone (and no, not just the spaghetti
        westerns), John Barry, Les Baxter (have you heard his "Dunwich Horror"
        strck? Very cool electronics) etc.

        And since you have new electronics, how about old electronics? Stockhausens
        "Hymnen", Subotniks "Silver Apples On The Moon", Pierre Henrys "Messe Pour
        le Temps Present" + loads and loads of early moog stuff (both easy and
        serious) could be included.

        Well that was just a handfull of suggestions off the top of my head.

        ;-) Per-Christian
      • Per-Christian Hille
        ... Boredoms should definately be on there; their latest Boredoms aR was one of 98s best Sorry, that should be Super aR
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1, 1999
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          >> 6. Noise
          Boredoms should definately be on there; their latest "Boredoms aR" was one
          of 98s best

          Sorry, that should be "Super aR"
        • Oliver Brice
          Sounds like a brilliant compilation, but the noise section is a little conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino, CCCC, Borbetomagus
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1, 1999
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            Sounds like a brilliant compilation, but the noise section is a little
            conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
            CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???


            >6. Noise (85-93)
            >=20
            >side a:
            >=20
            >the living end (the jesus & mary chain, psychocandy)
            >sue is fine (my bloody valentine, isn=B4t anything)
            >pile-up (swervedriver, rise)
            >kaleidoscope (ride, nowhere)
            >loose my breath (my bloody valentine, isn=B4t anything)
            >=20
            >side b:
            >=20
            >drunken butterfly (sonic youth, dirty)
            >when the sun hits (slowdive, souvlaki space station)
            >heaven=B4s end (loop, heaven=B4s end)
            >kissability (sonic youth, daydream nation)
            >=20
            >7. Industrial music (79-93)
            >=20
            >side a:
            >=20
            >gestohlenes ban (orf) (einst=FCrzende neubauten, strategien gegen =
            >architekturen)
            >krieg in den stadten (einst=FCrzende neubauten, strategien gegen =
            >architekturen)
            >eastern mantra (edit) (cabaret voltaire, three mantras)
            >see you are (throbbing gristle)
            >=20
            >side b:
            >=20
            >headcleaner (edit) (einst=FCrzende neubauten, tabula rasa)
            >coco pina (daf)
            >a thirty fish/the dirty fire (hafler trio)
            >candy man (monte cazazza)
            >=20
            >8. Low-fi (87-98)
            >=20
            >side a:
            >=20
            >red men and their wives (guided by voices, under the bushes, under the
            =
            >stars)
            >kid of harith (will oldham)
            >wild love (smog, wild love)
            >perfume-v (pavement, slanted & enchanted)
            >ride the darker wave (sebadoh, weed forestin)
            >pimple zoo (guided by voices, alien lanes)
            >=20
            >side b:
            >=20
            >candle (smog, wild love)
            >useless landscape (movietone)
            >the official ironmen rally song (guided by voices, under the bushes =
            >under the stars)
            >stop the wheel (sebadoh, the freed man)
            >king & caroline (guided by voices, alien lanes)
            >=20
            >9. Minimalism (64-73)
            >=20
            >side a:
            >=20
            >in C (edit) (terry riley)
            >=20
            >side b:
            >=20
            >music for mallet instruments, voices and organs (steve reich)
            >=20
            >10. atonal music (34-93)
            >=20
            >side a:
            >=20
            >sonatas V-VIII (john cage)
            >sextet (edit) (steve reich)
            >=20
            >side b:
            >=20
            >six short inventions for seven instruments (john cage)
            >tener el aprendiz al sol (juan pablo simoniello)
            >
            >coming up: dub, psychedelia, bossa nova, post-punk, free jazz....
            >
            >franco
            >
          • Kjetil R|dje
            Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc. ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1, 1999
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              Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like:
              Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc.


              At 08:49 28.02.99 -0300, you wrote:

              >>>>

              <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>

              </smaller></fontfamily><smaller>2. Post-Rock (93-96)

              </smaller>

              <smaller>side a:

              </smaller>

              <smaller>glass museum (tortoise, millions now living will never die)

              cybele´s reviere (stereolab, emperor tomato ketchup)

              wedding in the park (gastr del sol, croockt crackt or fly)

              red river (laika, silver apples from the moon)

              </smaller>

              <smaller>side b:

              </smaller>

              <smaller>joker john (moonshake, the sound your eyes can follow)

              kissing the sun (young gods, only heaven)

              polyfusion (seefeel, quique)

              </smaller>

              </excerpt>
            • Huang Weijian
              ... = ... singular = ... = ... that = ... rock. = ... = ... Interesting stuff there.Nothing like a good mix-tape.The noise label fro the bands you put in that
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 2, 1999
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                >planetax@...
                >
                >I call experimental rock to the music that takes place from that common
                =
                >edge, from that gray zone that exists between experimental music and =
                >rock. This gray zone acquires, at different moments and places,
                singular =
                >configurations: psychedelia, krautrock, no-wave, industrial, electronic
                =
                >music, post-rock. That point of crossing in perpetual metamorphosis
                that =
                >forces to a permanent deflection.=20
                >
                >Recently, I have assembled a series of 30min tapes on experimental
                rock. =
                >This are not intended for comercial distribution, they are basicaly =
                >personal, and for friends.
                >
                >They were made to give, within 30 minutes, a glimpse of the genre. They
                =
                >should worl as an introduction for people who never heard this stuff =
                Interesting stuff there.Nothing like a good mix-tape.The noise label fro
                the bands you put in that category was a bit odd though.Most of the
                bands there belong more or less to the shoegazer-era(yikes).Great
                stuff,that,but aren't they a bit too melodic to qualify as noise?
              • Franco Ingrassia
                ... Interesting stuff there.Nothing like a good mix-tape.The noise label fro the bands you put in that category was a bit odd though.Most of the bands there
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 6, 1999
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                  >should worl as an introduction for people who never heard this stuff =
                  Interesting stuff there.Nothing like a good mix-tape.The noise label fro
                  the bands you put in that category was a bit odd though.Most of the
                  bands there belong more or less to the shoegazer-era(yikes).Great
                  stuff,that,but aren't they a bit too melodic to qualify as noise?

                  I agree, but here in argentina, groups like My Bloody Valentine and Sonic
                  Youth are considered noise. Maybe another tape could be made with the more
                  hard-edged stuff. (Any suggestions?)
                  But I think the original tape is important because it�s fundamental to know
                  this groups because much of the post-rock was done holding this groups as
                  references, retaining some elements and leaving others behind.

                  Planeta X
                  Alvear 1079
                  Rosario, Santa Fe
                  2000
                  Argentina
                  Http://come.to/planetax
                  -----Mensaje original-----
                  De: Huang Weijian <anamorphose@...>
                  Para: thewire@onelist.com <thewire@onelist.com>
                  Fecha: Martes, 02 de Marzo de 1999 10:35 a.m.
                  Asunto: [thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation tapes


                  >From: "Huang Weijian" <anamorphose@...>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>planetax@...
                  >>
                  >>I call experimental rock to the music that takes place from that common
                  >=
                  >>edge, from that gray zone that exists between experimental music and =
                  >>rock. This gray zone acquires, at different moments and places,
                  >singular =
                  >>configurations: psychedelia, krautrock, no-wave, industrial, electronic
                  >=
                  >>music, post-rock. That point of crossing in perpetual metamorphosis
                  >that =
                  >>forces to a permanent deflection.=20
                  >>
                  >>Recently, I have assembled a series of 30min tapes on experimental
                  >rock. =
                  >>This are not intended for comercial distribution, they are basicaly =
                  >>personal, and for friends.
                  >>
                  >>They were made to give, within 30 minutes, a glimpse of the genre. They
                  >=
                  >>should worl as an introduction for people who never heard this stuff =
                  >Interesting stuff there.Nothing like a good mix-tape.The noise label fro
                  >the bands you put in that category was a bit odd though.Most of the
                  >bands there belong more or less to the shoegazer-era(yikes).Great
                  >stuff,that,but aren't they a bit too melodic to qualify as noise?
                  >
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                • Franco Ingrassia
                  Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc. I haven´t heard Slint or Codeine. ¿Do you have
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 6, 1999
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                    Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc.



                    I haven�t heard Slint or Codeine. �Do you have any info on them?

                    About Disco Inferno, I have listened to their two cds. In my opinion, they are too hipnotized by Joy Division to make a valuable contribuition (specially in the first lp). Do you agree?

                    Planeta X
                    Alvear 1079
                    Rosario, Santa Fe
                    2000
                    Argentina
                    Http://come.to/planetax
                    -----Mensaje original-----
                    De: Kjetil R|dje <kjetilro@...>
                    Para: thewire@onelist.com <thewire@onelist.com>
                    Fecha: Lunes, 01 de Marzo de 1999 12:20 p.m.
                    Asunto: [thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation tapes


                    From: Kjetil R|dje
                    Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc.

                    At 08:49 28.02.99 -0300, you wrote:
                    >>>>


                    2. Post-Rock (93-96)

                    side a:

                    glass museum (tortoise, millions now living will never die)
                    cybele´s reviere (stereolab, emperor tomato ketchup)
                    wedding in the park (gastr del sol, croockt crackt or fly)
                    red river (laika, silver apples from the moon)

                    side b:

                    joker john (moonshake, the sound your eyes can follow)
                    kissing the sun (young gods, only heaven)
                    polyfusion (seefeel, quique)





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                  • Franco Ingrassia
                    the noise section is a little conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino, CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...??? Tough I´ve read about some of
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 6, 1999
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                      the noise section is a little
                      conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                      CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???

                      Tough I�ve read about some of them, I haven�t heard any of the groups you
                      mentioned. Please, tell me more. And if you like, you could suggest me a
                      tape on more extreme noise.



                      Planeta X
                      Alvear 1079
                      Rosario, Santa Fe
                      2000
                      Argentina
                      Http://come.to/planetax
                      -----Mensaje original-----
                      De: Oliver Brice <oliebrice@...>
                      Para: thewire@onelist.com <thewire@onelist.com>
                      Fecha: Lunes, 01 de Marzo de 1999 08:37 a.m.
                      Asunto: [thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation tapes


                      >From: "Oliver Brice" <oliebrice@...>
                      >
                      >
                      >Sounds like a brilliant compilation, but the noise section is a little
                      >conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                      >CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???
                      >
                      >
                      >>6. Noise (85-93)
                      >>=20
                      >>side a:
                      >>=20
                      >>the living end (the jesus & mary chain, psychocandy)
                      >>sue is fine (my bloody valentine, isn=B4t anything)
                      >>pile-up (swervedriver, rise)
                      >>kaleidoscope (ride, nowhere)
                      >>loose my breath (my bloody valentine, isn=B4t anything)
                      >>=20
                      >>side b:
                      >>=20
                      >>drunken butterfly (sonic youth, dirty)
                      >>when the sun hits (slowdive, souvlaki space station)
                      >>heaven=B4s end (loop, heaven=B4s end)
                      >>kissability (sonic youth, daydream nation)
                      >>=20
                      >>7. Industrial music (79-93)
                      >>=20
                      >>side a:
                      >>=20
                      >>gestohlenes ban (orf) (einst=FCrzende neubauten, strategien gegen =
                      >>architekturen)
                      >>krieg in den stadten (einst=FCrzende neubauten, strategien gegen =
                      >>architekturen)
                      >>eastern mantra (edit) (cabaret voltaire, three mantras)
                      >>see you are (throbbing gristle)
                      >>=20
                      >>side b:
                      >>=20
                      >>headcleaner (edit) (einst=FCrzende neubauten, tabula rasa)
                      >>coco pina (daf)
                      >>a thirty fish/the dirty fire (hafler trio)
                      >>candy man (monte cazazza)
                      >>=20
                      >>8. Low-fi (87-98)
                      >>=20
                      >>side a:
                      >>=20
                      >>red men and their wives (guided by voices, under the bushes, under the
                      >=
                      >>stars)
                      >>kid of harith (will oldham)
                      >>wild love (smog, wild love)
                      >>perfume-v (pavement, slanted & enchanted)
                      >>ride the darker wave (sebadoh, weed forestin)
                      >>pimple zoo (guided by voices, alien lanes)
                      >>=20
                      >>side b:
                      >>=20
                      >>candle (smog, wild love)
                      >>useless landscape (movietone)
                      >>the official ironmen rally song (guided by voices, under the bushes =
                      >>under the stars)
                      >>stop the wheel (sebadoh, the freed man)
                      >>king & caroline (guided by voices, alien lanes)
                      >>=20
                      >>9. Minimalism (64-73)
                      >>=20
                      >>side a:
                      >>=20
                      >>in C (edit) (terry riley)
                      >>=20
                      >>side b:
                      >>=20
                      >>music for mallet instruments, voices and organs (steve reich)
                      >>=20
                      >>10. atonal music (34-93)
                      >>=20
                      >>side a:
                      >>=20
                      >>sonatas V-VIII (john cage)
                      >>sextet (edit) (steve reich)
                      >>=20
                      >>side b:
                      >>=20
                      >>six short inventions for seven instruments (john cage)
                      >>tener el aprendiz al sol (juan pablo simoniello)
                      >>
                      >>coming up: dub, psychedelia, bossa nova, post-punk, free jazz....
                      >>
                      >>franco
                      >>
                      >
                      >
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                    • Franco Ingrassia
                      On the dub tape, will you differentiating between Jamaican reggae-based dub (King Tubby, Lee Perry, Augustos Pablo +++ would need to be on it) and recent
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 6, 1999
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                        On the dub tape, will you differentiating between Jamaican reggae-based dub (King Tubby, Lee Perry, Augustos Pablo +++ would need to be on it) and recent electronica based dub?


                        Well, the tape will include both. (It�s a mix tape after all).

                        here�s some tracks I have selected (so far)

                        1. struggle of like (the disciples)
                        2. falling (scorn)
                        3. bumper ball dub (mad professor)

                        Also, a track from Scorn�s Logghi Barogghi. I think his ambient-dub gets deeper and deeper every time you listen to it...

                        About the classics, �what tracks (and cds) from King Tubby or Lee Scratch Perry do you recommend?


                        Planeta X
                        Alvear 1079
                        Rosario, Santa Fe
                        2000
                        Argentina
                        Http://come.to/planetax
                        -----Mensaje original-----
                        De: Per-Christian Hille <per.hille@...>
                        Para: thewire@onelist.com <thewire@onelist.com>
                        Fecha: Lunes, 01 de Marzo de 1999 07:55 a.m.
                        Asunto: [thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation tapes


                        Love making tapes such as this myself. Here's some suggestions (based on personal taste obviously) for additions and new genres:


                        >> 3. Krautrock

                        Neu (+ La Dusseldorf and Harmonia), early Popul Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel


                        >> 6. Noise

                        Boredoms should definately be on there; their latest "Boredoms aR" was one of 98s best


                        >> 10. atonal music

                        Have you checked out Harry Partch?


                        >> coming up: dub, psychedelia, bossa nova, post-punk, free jazz....

                        On the dub tape, will you differentiating between Jamaican reggae-based dub (King Tubby, Lee Perry, Augustos Pablo +++ would need to be on it) and recent electronica based dub?

                        What are you putting on the Bossa tape? There's so much incredible Brazilian music that isn't Bossa Nova, that I could probably fill at least 10 tapes of stuff.

                        How about a soundtrack tape? Ennio Morricone (and no, not just the spaghetti westerns), John Barry, Les Baxter (have you heard his "Dunwich Horror" strck? Very cool electronics) etc.

                        And since you have new electronics, how about old electronics? Stockhausens "Hymnen", Subotniks "Silver Apples On The Moon", Pierre Henrys "Messe Pour le Temps Present" + loads and loads of early moog stuff (both easy and serious) could be included.

                        Well that was just a handfull of suggestions off the top of my head.

                        ;-) Per-Christian
                      • Alex Stone
                        ... The Arkology 4 CD set of Lee Scratch Perry contains some excellent tracks including great production jobs such as War In A Babylon and Police and Thieves,
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 6, 1999
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                          >About the classics, �what tracks (and cds) from King Tubby or Lee Scratch
                          >>Perry do you recommend? Planeta X


                          The Arkology 4 CD set of Lee Scratch Perry contains some excellent tracks
                          including great production jobs such as War In A Babylon and Police and
                          Thieves, with dub versions, and Perry's own classics such as Roast Fish and
                          Cornbread. Actually, the dub of Roast Fish is pretty damn strong - go for
                          that. Or you could get practically anything off Scratch's Super Ape or
                          Blackboard Jungle.

                          I've not heard anything bad from King Tubby's, but you could try any of the
                          recent reissues on Blood and Fire.

                          And what about Keith Hudson's Pick A Dub (Blood and Fire) - one of the
                          greatest dub recordings IMO.

                          PS: Any Lee Scratch Perry-0-philes out there able to tell me how to get
                          hold of 'Mystic Miracle Star' on CD? I used to have it on vinyl, and I know
                          there is a CD, but I've never seen it.

                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++

                          Alex Stone

                          Concepts/Copy/Design

                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++
                        • Oliver Brice
                          ... you ... a ... Mezbow and Keiji Haino you must have read about in the Wire ; Japanese noise, Merzbow mainly electronic whereas Haino uses guitar, voice,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 8, 1999
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                            >the noise section is a little
                            >conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                            >CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???
                            >
                            >Tough I�ve read about some of them, I haven�t heard any of the groups
                            you
                            >mentioned. Please, tell me more. And if you like, you could suggest me
                            a
                            >tape on more extreme noise.

                            Mezbow and Keiji Haino you must have read about in the "Wire"; Japanese
                            noise, Merzbow mainly electronic whereas Haino uses guitar, voice, hurdy
                            gurdy and other instruments and is more "Rock". Try the canadian label
                            Alien8 for jap noise. CCCC are also japanese noise, but not as harsh
                            as Merzbow. The only album of their's that I have is a live one with no
                            label name.

                            Ascension are an extraordinary noise/improv duo of Stefan Jaworzyn on
                            guitar and Tony Irving on drums, imagine a cross between Hendrix and
                            Derek Bailey...

                            Borbetomagus are 2 saxophonists (Jim Sauter, who sometimes plays in the
                            blue humans, and don dietreich [spelling?]) and Donald Miller on guitar,
                            sort of drony noise with free jazz elements.

                            The Dead C are a New zealand noise band, also guitar based.

                            Also reccomended are A Handfull of Dust and Rudolph Grey. Try the
                            Corpus Hermeticum label for New Zealand noise.

                            Hope thats helpfull/interesting,
                            Olie
                          • werner h. fischer
                            if you like hurd gurdy ... you should listen to dominique regef .. take care
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 8, 1999
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                              if you like hurd gurdy ... you should listen to dominique regef .. take care

                              Oliver Brice wrote:

                              > From: "Oliver Brice" <oliebrice@...>
                              >
                              > >the noise section is a little
                              > >conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                              > >CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???
                              > >
                              > >Tough I�ve read about some of them, I haven�t heard any of the groups
                              > you
                              > >mentioned. Please, tell me more. And if you like, you could suggest me
                              > a
                              > >tape on more extreme noise.
                              >
                              > Mezbow and Keiji Haino you must have read about in the "Wire"; Japanese
                              > noise, Merzbow mainly electronic whereas Haino uses guitar, voice, hurdy
                              > gurdy and other instruments and is more "Rock". Try the canadian label
                              > Alien8 for jap noise. CCCC are also japanese noise, but not as harsh
                              > as Merzbow. The only album of their's that I have is a live one with no
                              > label name.
                              >
                              > Ascension are an extraordinary noise/improv duo of Stefan Jaworzyn on
                              > guitar and Tony Irving on drums, imagine a cross between Hendrix and
                              > Derek Bailey...
                              >
                              > Borbetomagus are 2 saxophonists (Jim Sauter, who sometimes plays in the
                              > blue humans, and don dietreich [spelling?]) and Donald Miller on guitar,
                              > sort of drony noise with free jazz elements.
                              >
                              > The Dead C are a New zealand noise band, also guitar based.
                              >
                              > Also reccomended are A Handfull of Dust and Rudolph Grey. Try the
                              > Corpus Hermeticum label for New Zealand noise.
                              >
                              > Hope thats helpfull/interesting,
                              > Olie
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site!
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                            • Kjetil R|dje
                              ... Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc. I haven´t heard Slint
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 8, 1999
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                                At 22:16 06.03.99 -0300, you wrote:

                                >>>>

                                <excerpt>Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older
                                stuff like: Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc.





                                <smaller>I haven´t heard Slint or Codeine. ¿Do you have any
                                info on them?

                                </smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<

                                Slint has realeased two albums: "Tweez" & "Spiderland", and one untitled
                                ep (all on Touch & Go).

                                Codeine has realeased three albums "Frigid Stars", "Barly Real" & "The
                                White Birch" (all on Sup Pop).

                                All these albums should be available still.

                                These two american bands did in the late 80's/early 90's very much define
                                what should be later named post-rock. Their influences (and sometimes
                                their former bandmembers) can be heard in bands like June of 44, Tortoise
                                (the first album), Rex, Bedhead, Mogwai etc, as well as in the newer
                                material from bands like Shellac and Fugazi.


                                >>>>

                                <excerpt>



                                <smaller>About Disco Inferno, I have listened to their two cds. In my
                                opinion, they are too hipnotized by Joy Division to make a valuable
                                contribuition (specially in the first lp). Do you agree?

                                </smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<

                                I agree on the point about their Joy Division-inspiration, but I think
                                they managed to find a sound of their own, as you can hear on their "Go
                                Pop"-album. Here they developed their rythmic, electronic elements
                                further.

                                Among other forerunners to the post-rock scene I will mention bands like
                                Main & Flying Saucer Attac, which developed sort of monolithic, ambient
                                version of rock and noise.

                                >>>>

                                <excerpt>



                                <smaller>Planeta X

                                Alvear 1079

                                Rosario, Santa Fe

                                2000

                                Argentina

                                <<http://come.to/planetax>Http://come.to/planetax

                                </smaller><excerpt>
                                <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>-----Mensaje
                                original-----

                                De:
                                </smaller></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Kjetil
                                R|dje <<<<mailto:kjetilro@...>kjetilro@...>

                                <bold>Para: </bold><<mailto:thewire@onelist.com>thewire@onelist.com
                                <<<<mailto:thewire@onelist.com>thewire@onelist.com>

                                <bold>Fecha: </bold>Lunes, 01 de Marzo de 1999 12:20 p.m.

                                <bold>Asunto: </bold>[thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation
                                tapes


                                </smaller></fontfamily>From: Kjetil R|dje

                                Why does your post-rock period start in 1993? How about older stuff like:
                                Slint, Codeine, Disco Inferno etc.


                                At 08:49 28.02.99 -0300, you wrote:

                                >>>>

                                <excerpt>

                                2. Post-Rock (93-96)


                                side a:


                                glass museum (tortoise, millions now living will never die)

                                cybele´s reviere (stereolab, emperor tomato ketchup)

                                wedding in the park (gastr del sol, croockt crackt or fly)

                                red river (laika, silver apples from the moon)


                                side b:


                                joker john (moonshake, the sound your eyes can follow)

                                kissing the sun (young gods, only heaven)

                                polyfusion (seefeel, quique)


                                </excerpt>



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                                </excerpt>

                                </excerpt><<<<<<<<
                              • Tomppa
                                Mystic Miracle Star and several other Lee Perry/Upsetters CD s can be ordered from Cheap-CDs (http://cheap-cds.com/surf/home) Tomppa
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 8, 1999
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                                  "Mystic Miracle Star" and several other Lee Perry/Upsetters CD's can be
                                  ordered from Cheap-CDs (http://cheap-cds.com/surf/home)
                                  Tomppa

                                  Alex Stone wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: Alex Stone <alex@astone.u-net.com>
                                  >
                                  > >About the classics, �what tracks (and cds) from King Tubby or Lee Scratch
                                  > >>Perry do you recommend? Planeta X
                                  >
                                  > The Arkology 4 CD set of Lee Scratch Perry contains some excellent tracks
                                  > including great production jobs such as War In A Babylon and Police and
                                  > Thieves, with dub versions, and Perry's own classics such as Roast Fish and
                                  > Cornbread. Actually, the dub of Roast Fish is pretty damn strong - go for
                                  > that. Or you could get practically anything off Scratch's Super Ape or
                                  > Blackboard Jungle.
                                  >
                                  > I've not heard anything bad from King Tubby's, but you could try any of the
                                  > recent reissues on Blood and Fire.
                                  >
                                  > And what about Keith Hudson's Pick A Dub (Blood and Fire) - one of the
                                  > greatest dub recordings IMO.
                                  >
                                  > PS: Any Lee Scratch Perry-0-philes out there able to tell me how to get
                                  > hold of 'Mystic Miracle Star' on CD? I used to have it on vinyl, and I know
                                  > there is a CD, but I've never seen it.
                                  >
                                  > ++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  >
                                  > Alex Stone
                                  >
                                  > Concepts/Copy/Design
                                  >
                                  > ++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > Have you visited our new web site?
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                                • Benito Vergara
                                  ... Merzbow is, I guess, generally considered the leading figure in noise -- at least ever since noise became a genre in itself, splintering off from
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 9, 1999
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                                    > -----Original Message-----

                                    Someone wrote:

                                    > >the noise section is a little
                                    > >conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                                    > >CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???

                                    And then Franco (I think) wrote:

                                    > >Tough I�ve read about some of them, I haven�t heard any of the groups
                                    > you
                                    > >mentioned. Please, tell me more. And if you like, you could suggest me
                                    > a
                                    > >tape on more extreme noise.

                                    Merzbow is, I guess, generally considered the leading figure in noise -- at
                                    least ever since noise became a genre in itself, splintering off from
                                    industrial music. There's a "Merzbox Sampler" floating around -- a sampler
                                    off the forthcoming colossal Merzbox -- which has a good variety of Merzbow,
                                    from surreal(ist) collages to massive blocks of pure squelch. "Music for
                                    Bondage Performance" also has a bit more variety, and somewhat more quiet.

                                    Quite frankly, I don't see much of a reason to own more than two Merzbow
                                    albums, but that's just me. "Electric Salad," for instance, is one of the
                                    few albums I own which I dread putting into the CD player, just because of
                                    the thought of "God, I'm going to have sit through this again." Which is
                                    *not* a bad thing by any means, though, but it is difficult to listen to
                                    more than a hour of power-electronics. But the experience is completely
                                    worth it: wave after violent wave of drills, shrieks, rumbles, howls,
                                    buzzes, machines about to overload, and beating you (and that ring
                                    modulator) into submission.

                                    I happen to like Aube better (yet another Japanese noise guy), who makes
                                    similar noise (though a more soothing kind) out of different sound sources
                                    (glow lamps, heartbeats, water, wire, metal, pages from the Bible) -- the
                                    problem is that the track structures are very repetitive and hardly vary
                                    from album to album.

                                    As for Keiji Haino, there have been a few posts on him already. I'm not
                                    sure, though, if he would consider himself as a noise artist. I think that
                                    the folks at The Wire would recommend one of those Fushitsusha double live
                                    albums, but they're pretty pricey and so I haven't heard them yet. "The
                                    Caution Approaches" is nice and loud, with pummeling yet gentle guitar
                                    riffs.

                                    Later,
                                    Ben

                                    np: pixies, "trompe le monde"

                                    http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
                                    ICQ# 12832406
                                  • Franco Ingrassia
                                    Thanks to everyone who wrote about the noise bands. I´ve found the info both helpful and interesting. I´m going to check this stuff. ... C, Ascension, Keiji
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 9, 1999
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                                      Thanks to everyone who wrote about the noise bands.
                                      I�ve found the info both helpful and interesting. I�m going to check this
                                      stuff.

                                      >the noise section is a little conservative, how about some Merzbow, >Dead
                                      C, Ascension, Keiji Haino, CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???

                                      Now I understand. You call "noise" to an especific post-industrial
                                      development.
                                      When I put the noise tape together I was thinking more of the noise-rock
                                      produced in the late 80s and early 90s, with Sonic Youth and My Bloody
                                      Valentine as the main references.

                                      Franco.


                                      Planeta X
                                      Alvear 1079
                                      Rosario, Santa Fe
                                      2000
                                      Argentina
                                      Http://come.to/planetax
                                      -----Mensaje original-----
                                      De: Oliver Brice <oliebrice@...>
                                      Para: thewire@onelist.com <thewire@onelist.com>
                                      Fecha: Lunes, 08 de Marzo de 1999 09:56 a.m.
                                      Asunto: [thewire] Re: experimental rock map compilation tapes


                                      >From: "Oliver Brice" <oliebrice@...>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>the noise section is a little
                                      >>conservative, how about some Merzbow, Dead C, Ascension, Keiji Haino,
                                      >>CCCC, Borbetomagus etc...???
                                      >>
                                      >>Tough I�ve read about some of them, I haven�t heard any of the groups
                                      >you
                                      >>mentioned. Please, tell me more. And if you like, you could suggest me
                                      >a
                                      >>tape on more extreme noise.
                                      >
                                      >Mezbow and Keiji Haino you must have read about in the "Wire"; Japanese
                                      >noise, Merzbow mainly electronic whereas Haino uses guitar, voice, hurdy
                                      >gurdy and other instruments and is more "Rock". Try the canadian label
                                      >Alien8 for jap noise. CCCC are also japanese noise, but not as harsh
                                      >as Merzbow. The only album of their's that I have is a live one with no
                                      >label name.
                                      >
                                      >Ascension are an extraordinary noise/improv duo of Stefan Jaworzyn on
                                      >guitar and Tony Irving on drums, imagine a cross between Hendrix and
                                      >Derek Bailey...
                                      >
                                      >Borbetomagus are 2 saxophonists (Jim Sauter, who sometimes plays in the
                                      >blue humans, and don dietreich [spelling?]) and Donald Miller on guitar,
                                      >sort of drony noise with free jazz elements.
                                      >
                                      >The Dead C are a New zealand noise band, also guitar based.
                                      >
                                      >Also reccomended are A Handfull of Dust and Rudolph Grey. Try the
                                      >Corpus Hermeticum label for New Zealand noise.
                                      >
                                      >Hope thats helpfull/interesting,
                                      >Olie
                                      >
                                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site!
                                      >http://www.onelist.com
                                      >Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange
                                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    • Myflyisopn@xxx.xxx
                                      i was wondering if there were any plans to circulate all these listings of maps to subscribers of the list? it would seem an awfully strange debate without
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 12, 1999
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                                        i was wondering if there were any plans to circulate all these listings of
                                        "maps" to subscribers of the list? it would seem an awfully strange debate
                                        without being able to hear the most common or achetypal examples of post rock,
                                        dub, noise, and whatever discursive genre seems to be in question this
                                        minuten.

                                        dag,

                                        marc
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