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Re: Bebop and minimalism

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  • Rhys Chatham
    ... Please forgive me. What I meant to say is that (Max)imalism had its origins with (max)imalists Miller Puckette and David Zaricarelli (they are Amercian,
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 27, 1999
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      >
      >> (Max)imalism is a genre of music that is Franco-Amercian in origin
      >
      Nick Rothwell writes:

      >Ooh, I don't think so! My album, and all my live projects, make
      >extremely heavy use of MAX, and I'm neither French nor American, and
      >so neither is my music.

      Please forgive me. What I meant to say is that (Max)imalism had its
      origins with (max)imalists Miller Puckette and David Zaricarelli (they
      are Amercian, aren't they?), among others, at the IRCAM centre, which is
      a Mecca in Paris for electronic music where (much to its detriment) one
      leaves one's drum and bass and minimalist music at the door in the
      coat-check room!

      Happily, (max)imalism has taken root in many countries and cultures,
      including the homeland of my Welsh ancestors (Dewiswch enw Cymreag - a
      dewiswch gyda'r llyfr hwn!).

      That being said, the following comment from Richard@... really
      blew my mind:

      >I would agree with this, and have no difficulty with classifying as
      >"minimalist" music which is extremely similar to the kind of work
      >being done by the "original" minimalists (ie those who first worked
      >under that rubric). Just as I don't have a problem with saying that
      >there are plenty of bebop bands in London at the moment, even
      >though bebop as a genre is usually dated roughly 1940-1950.

      I'm jealous. Why didn't I think of that?

      >What I think we're getting to is the idea that "minimalism" is a
      >*genre* (like bebop) not a general descriptive term (like "loud" or
      >"commercial").

      Rich goes on to recommend the use of term "post-minimalism".

      The first time I saw "post-minimalism" used by a critic was in 1978 by
      Greg Sandow in the Village Voice (in NYC) to describe the work of a new
      generation of composers who were working in a downtown art and rock
      context. I think the term is a good catch-all for any Minimalist
      influenced music written since the late 70s, just the way post-bebop has
      been used by crtics in NY to desribe Wynton Marsalis and his friends.

      I think these labelling terms are important, because believe it or not,
      they actually mean something to the people who really know the music! For
      example, I'm sorry, but jungle is not the same as drum n bass.

      I mean, we live in relatively open societies, right? So anyone can call
      anything they like "jungle music", but that doesn't mean they are right...

      because jungle music will have a very specific connotation to the group
      of people who actually made the music and for those who danced to it and
      otherwise participated in the rite, who risked their lives going to
      bombed-out squat parties and woodland environments and who, essentially,
      lived through the exerience, rather than intellectualize about it after
      the fact.

      So yes, labels are important. They're important because they stand for
      something.

      I'm on a run here. Another point that I thought of which addresses what
      Edmund was saying earlier is that a lot of music which is "minimal", i.e.
      music which is somehow reductive in either its compositional process or
      sound material, already has its own genre label e.g. ambient music,
      minimal drum n bass, new age music, etc. While this music certainly has
      its roots in the music made by the original Minmalist composers, they
      already are easily indentified by their more current genre handles,
      aren't they? So we don't need to call them post-minimalist unless it is
      a group who is overtly trying to sound exactly like Tony Conrad, John
      Cale or La Monte Young.... or Terry Riley. The way the post-beboppers
      are revisting the late forties and fifties.

      On a slightly differnt topic:

      Is Paluine Oliveros' piece I of IV a minimalist piece? It certainly is
      reductive in its use of material. IU'm surprised to realize that I
      somehow never have thought of it as minimalist, possibly because I always
      thought of Pauline as a kind of "school unto herself"...

      God, I'm so full of questions! I better stop while I'm ahead.

      Have a nice weekened, everybody.

      best,

      Rhys
    • Jason Witherspoon
      ... I think the proper term is rebop . Captures the canned flavor, too. Jason Witherspoon ... com/~arz http://www.best.com/~arzachel www.best.com/~arzachel
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 27, 1999
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        At 10:37 AM +0100 2/27/99, Rhys Chatham wrote:
        > just the way post-bebop has
        > been used by crtics in NY to desribe Wynton Marsalis and his friends.

        I think the proper term is "rebop". Captures the canned flavor, too.


        Jason Witherspoon

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