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Peaches Jukebox

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  • Simon Fay
    Message: 10 Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:45:10 -0000 From: gradyfinklemyer Subject: Peaches jukebox Would pissing on stage be a
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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      "Message: 10
      Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:45:10 -0000
      From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@...>
      Subject: Peaches jukebox

      "Would pissing on stage be a way for you to transgress
      social taboos?
      It would be exciting and extreme."etc.

      Do they really have to waste magazine space on this
      garbage? What
      complete tosh that Peaches jukebox was. GG Allin?!"

      Dunno what her music sounds like (presumably it's a
      throwaway adjunct to her transgressive persona) but
      after reading that article I'd happily help any death
      squad that needed to dispose of her corpse.

      SF




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    • Ernest Salaz
      I think your comments are pretty harsh. Why does every single bit of the Wire have to come from this very serious music angle? I think her viewpoints are
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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        I think your comments are pretty harsh.

        Why does every single bit of the Wire have to come from this

        very serious music angle? I think her viewpoints are coming from

        a pretty fresh angle, and although I haven't read her Jukebox yet,

        I have heard her music and I find it pretty entertaining and
        transgressive for the general mainstream...which has the potential

        to affect more people, get them into different kinds of electroclash/

        electronic/disco music(s). Better than some poface "serious" musician
        who is trying to impress the few elite snobs who take the

        Jukebox so seriously. At least its a bit of a change, not worthy of

        death by execution!



        ES



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Simon Fay [mailto:simonfay2001@...]
        Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 10:21 AM
        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [thewire] Peaches Jukebox



        "Message: 10
        Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:45:10 -0000
        From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@...>
        Subject: Peaches jukebox

        "Would pissing on stage be a way for you to transgress
        social taboos?
        It would be exciting and extreme."etc.

        Do they really have to waste magazine space on this
        garbage? What
        complete tosh that Peaches jukebox was. GG Allin?!"

        Dunno what her music sounds like (presumably it's a
        throwaway adjunct to her transgressive persona) but
        after reading that article I'd happily help any death
        squad that needed to dispose of her corpse.

        SF




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      • Olivier Borzeix
        I totally second that... though I seriously dislike Peaches and most music of its kind I don t see why you guys are so pissed off about everything that get out
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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          I totally second that...
          though I seriously dislike Peaches and most music of its kind I don't see why you guys are so pissed off about everything that get out of The Wire's line. Aren't you open to discover something else... isn't it The Wire purpose to try new stuffs.
          When you're open to discover new grounds you'll have to pay attention and sometimes go in some places you'll eventually realise you don't get much interest out of.

          Furthermore experimental, avant-garde (etc...) is meant and as been meant since its conceptual inception to challenge established forms, social paterns etc. So I would expect a lil' more intelligent reactions to provocation/challenge than what you guys are showing.

          And, YES, I know she's also doing that to get noticed just like other so called "serious" artists are using as much hypocritical means to get attention.

          Oh well... anyways your reaction just shows that she's succeeding in challenging the audience and the public, even those that weren't expected to.

          What really bores me to death in this is not the actual reactions which are pretty sane if we consider that's the kind of reactions that are expected when a provocative attitude is used, it's much more the call to censorship that is "underwater" in most of those comments. Every single thread that bears the "new issue" title in its subject since two months or more came with an underlying stance wanting The Wire to adopt a more "focused" editroial line and most exemples that were given of this were of "Old" avant-garde, Traditional experimental which are, of course, oh so important but which needs new blood, fresh angle like Ernest said.

          Well...

          my two cents

          Olivier
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ernest Salaz
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:41 AM
          Subject: RE: [thewire] Peaches Jukebox


          I think your comments are pretty harsh.

          Why does every single bit of the Wire have to come from this

          very serious music angle? I think her viewpoints are coming from

          a pretty fresh angle, and although I haven't read her Jukebox yet,

          I have heard her music and I find it pretty entertaining and
          transgressive for the general mainstream...which has the potential

          to affect more people, get them into different kinds of electroclash/

          electronic/disco music(s). Better than some poface "serious" musician
          who is trying to impress the few elite snobs who take the

          Jukebox so seriously. At least its a bit of a change, not worthy of

          death by execution!



          ES



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Simon Fay [mailto:simonfay2001@...]
          Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 10:21 AM
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [thewire] Peaches Jukebox



          "Message: 10
          Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:45:10 -0000
          From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@...>
          Subject: Peaches jukebox

          "Would pissing on stage be a way for you to transgress
          social taboos?
          It would be exciting and extreme."etc.

          Do they really have to waste magazine space on this
          garbage? What
          complete tosh that Peaches jukebox was. GG Allin?!"

          Dunno what her music sounds like (presumably it's a
          throwaway adjunct to her transgressive persona) but
          after reading that article I'd happily help any death
          squad that needed to dispose of her corpse.

          SF




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        • gradyfinklemyer
          I m not adverse to discover new grounds , I m just adverse to old shite dressed up as something new and daring, raising such challenging issues and
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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            I'm not adverse to "discover new grounds", I'm just adverse to old
            shite dressed up as something new and daring, raising such
            challenging issues and transgressing social lines, in such extreme,
            cutting edge ways. Ha ha ha. Oh, I forgot, they study Peaches lyrics
            in the Queer studies classes in Toronto. I know if I was still paying
            hard earned money to attend school, I would want some pomo schlub
            idjit professor giving me Peaches lyrics to study, not that I would
            get anywhere near any kind of class like that anyway. But the lyrics
            must have worth, right? sniff...sniff...what's that burning smell??
            Rome going up in flames?

            --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Olivier Borzeix" <oborzeix@s...>
            wrote:
            > I totally second that...
            > though I seriously dislike Peaches and most music of its kind I
            don't see why you guys are so pissed off about everything that get
            out of The Wire's line. Aren't you open to discover something else...
            isn't it The Wire purpose to try new stuffs.
            > When you're open to discover new grounds you'll have to pay
            attention and sometimes go in some places you'll eventually realise
            you don't get much interest out of.
            >
            > Furthermore experimental, avant-garde (etc...) is meant and as been
            meant since its conceptual inception to challenge established forms,
            social paterns etc. So I would expect a lil' more intelligent
            reactions to provocation/challenge than what you guys are showing.
            >
            > And, YES, I know she's also doing that to get noticed just like
            other so called "serious" artists are using as much hypocritical
            means to get attention.
            >
            > Oh well... anyways your reaction just shows that she's succeeding
            in challenging the audience and the public, even those that weren't
            expected to.
            >
            > What really bores me to death in this is not the actual reactions
            which are pretty sane if we consider that's the kind of reactions
            that are expected when a provocative attitude is used, it's much more
            the call to censorship that is "underwater" in most of those
            comments. Every single thread that bears the "new issue" title in its
            subject since two months or more came with an underlying stance
            wanting The Wire to adopt a more "focused" editroial line and most
            exemples that were given of this were of "Old" avant-garde,
            Traditional experimental which are, of course, oh so important but
            which needs new blood, fresh angle like Ernest said.
            >
            > Well...
            >
            > my two cents
            >
            > Olivier
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Ernest Salaz
            > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:41 AM
            > Subject: RE: [thewire] Peaches Jukebox
            >
            >
            > I think your comments are pretty harsh.
            >
            > Why does every single bit of the Wire have to come from this
            >
            > very serious music angle? I think her viewpoints are coming from
            >
            > a pretty fresh angle, and although I haven't read her Jukebox yet,
            >
            > I have heard her music and I find it pretty entertaining and
            > transgressive for the general mainstream...which has the potential
            >
            > to affect more people, get them into different kinds of
            electroclash/
            >
            > electronic/disco music(s). Better than some poface "serious"
            musician
            > who is trying to impress the few elite snobs who take the
            >
            > Jukebox so seriously. At least its a bit of a change, not worthy
            of
            >
            > death by execution!
            >
            >
            >
            > ES
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Simon Fay [mailto:simonfay2001@y...]
            > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 10:21 AM
            > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [thewire] Peaches Jukebox
            >
            >
            >
            > "Message: 10
            > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 04:45:10 -0000
            > From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@y...>
            > Subject: Peaches jukebox
            >
            > "Would pissing on stage be a way for you to transgress
            > social taboos?
            > It would be exciting and extreme."etc.
            >
            > Do they really have to waste magazine space on this
            > garbage? What
            > complete tosh that Peaches jukebox was. GG Allin?!"
            >
            > Dunno what her music sounds like (presumably it's a
            > throwaway adjunct to her transgressive persona) but
            > after reading that article I'd happily help any death
            > squad that needed to dispose of her corpse.
            >
            > SF
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Chris Whitehead
            Let s be honest, she doesn t transgress anything. Its all calculated like Marilyn Manson and Gareth Gates are calculated. We buy Wire because it does things
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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              Let's be honest, she doesn't transgress anything. Its all calculated like Marilyn Manson and Gareth Gates are calculated.

              We buy Wire because it does things other magazines don't, for instance it usually sees through the veneer of rubbish into the content at the heart of the music, or at least it strives to. To see it get tripped up by gimmicks is a bit tawdry.

              Its not the quality of Peaches' music or persona that I object to appearing in Wire, its the inability of the interviewer to ask anything probing, original or illuminating.

              So there.

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            • manny@telerama.com
              I think the interviewer actually did a great job in proving that there isn t *anything* deep or probing (other than, perhaps, a dildo) about Peaches music.
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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                I think the interviewer actually did a great job in proving that there
                isn't *anything* deep or probing (other than, perhaps, a dildo) about
                Peaches' music. It's all very obvious surface stuff & hype, significant
                only in that she is a pioneer in getting the mainstream to notice
                pomo-pornofeminism. "I, You, She, together, come baby let's go". We
                know very well that there are constant sitcom jokers *alluding* to
                things like menage a trois, but you never actually *see* it happening
                on network shows or mentioned in pop music. So if Madonna or whoever
                gives Peaches props for doing that, that's fine, and that's the kind of
                cultural contribution she's making. I also think people pay a bit more
                attention to Peaches precisely because she's *not* a vapid pretty girl.
                She's a loud mouthed ornery Jewess, the Sarah Silverman of electroclash.
                As a Jew, I respect that because I know the type, and it's the type that
                gets things done. All of this is OK with me on the level I know about it,
                when I buy the Peaches, I'm looking to be entertained and amused, not
                enlightened. It's not Sun Ra or Cecil Taylor. Teenage girls looking for
                the next transgressive step beyond TATU will feel the same way.

                But there's definitely a flipside in this argument and it has nothing to
                do with Peaches per se as much as the industry Iggy Pop told her to
                'watch out' for.
                If there is a gripe to be had with The Wire in this, it's that as a mag
                of renown it should be more able to resist the publicists push. Everyone
                knows that most significant music has a publicist behind it at this
                point.

                And just like in movies, you know that a movie is coming out because its
                stars all appear on the talk shows (chat shows, for you Brits) at the
                exact same time. With an album, the publicity is no different. The word
                "Peaches" appeared on the front of several magazine covers all at the
                same time, not just the Wire, and I'm sure as feature articles inside
                many more. The 'CD out now' thing that the Wire does at the end of every
                article (no matter how obscure the artist) indicates that just like any
                other magazine, the Wire is obsessed with the concept of the new product,
                just coming out, all shiny and novel (whether it has a publicist behind
                it or not). This is just the nature of capitalism. If I was a mag editor
                and somewhat of an ornery anti-consumerist - maybe the 'live simply so
                that others may simply live' type - I would deliberately stall
                publicists and write about artists several months *after* their records
                came out, which would give a more accurate artistic perspective and
                greatly reduce the hype factor. But then, if I did that, the huge flow
                of promo CDs beating a path to my door would slow down to a trickle and
                I couldn't trade those in for rare vinyls and/or food money.
                Nobody wants to suffer for their principles, now do they?

                On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, [iso-8859-1] Chris Whitehead wrote:

                >
                > Let's be honest, she doesn't transgress anything. Its all calculated like Marilyn Manson and Gareth Gates are calculated.
                >
                > We buy Wire because it does things other magazines don't, for instance it usually sees through the veneer of rubbish into the content at the heart of the music, or at least it strives to. To see it get tripped up by gimmicks is a bit tawdry.
                >
                > Its not the quality of Peaches' music or persona that I object to appearing in Wire, its the inability of the interviewer to ask anything probing, original or illuminating.
                >
                > So there.
                >
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              • James Duncan
                ... Everyone ... thank you..this is 100% true..and even great artists sometimes have great publists behind them. i had hoped that the esteemed readers of the
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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                  --- manny@... wrote:
                  Everyone
                  > knows that most significant music has a publicist
                  > behind it at this
                  > point.

                  thank you..this is 100% true..and even great "artists"
                  sometimes have great publists behind them.

                  i had hoped that the esteemed readers of the wire
                  wouldnt take bait such as something like the peaches
                  jukebox so easily, we get "sold to" just as much as
                  walmart shoppers. i dont see anything to get up in
                  arms about


                  listen wire publishes stuff that promotes new releases
                  just like anyone else. we are in a world were most
                  everyhting is presented in terms of market and product
                  (please, this is not up for debate...and im not trying
                  to be jaded, just realistic, plus with your dollars
                  you show where your support and ideals stand)

                  the thing thats great about the wire is that it at the
                  same time provides a nice window into lesser known new
                  releases aswell.

                  so i say whatever. BTW peaches was an old roomate of
                  mine and she used to sing in a folk band in toronto at
                  the time..so dont get yer panites in a bunch (sorry
                  for the bad pun), plus besides, some ppl liek
                  peaches...id rather listen to Metro Area or Dan Bell
                  or Mad Mike but hey, thats me.

                  James



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                • Damon Smith
                  i am just as impatient with the pop stars covered in the wire as anyone. being an uptight , serious improviser i am not a fan of jokes or screwing around
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 3, 2003
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                    i am just as impatient with the pop stars covered in the wire as
                    anyone. being an "uptight", "serious" improviser i am not a fan of
                    jokes or screwing around in music. living in the san francisco bay
                    area, near berkeley and mills college i have heard enough founded and
                    unfounded accusations of sexism to last a lifetime, however the attacks
                    on peaches have the smell of sexism, since every month there is some
                    idiotic male musician saying things that are far more stupid than her,
                    and no one says anything.
                    i find yet another miles davis article to be far more useless, even if
                    it is more serious. i find the pride many of these people like matmos
                    and micheal gira take in their musical ignorance to be more offensive
                    than peaces pissing on the stage.
                    with the requirements for basic understand of western music being the
                    ability to count to twelve and say your abc's up to 'g' it is nothing
                    to be proud of.
                    i found the peaches jukebox entertaining, and far from the worst
                    jukebox yet, at least she got some right and actually had some
                    interesting things to say about a few of them.
                    BTW-- nice cover! great pettibone article! i just saw a fantastic show
                    of his in los angeles. the cd with blank is amazing. being a longtime
                    rudiger carl and pettibone fan i could never have imagined them
                    meeting.

                    damon smith
                    http://www.balancepointacoustics.com

                    recently released:

                    bpa 006 "voice imitator"
                    frank gratkowski/jerome bryerton/damon smith


                    bpa 004 "desert sweets"
                    biggi vinkeloe/mark weaver/damon smith

                    bpa 003 "three october meetings"
                    wolfgang fuchs/jerome bryerton/damon smith

                    also available:
                    bpa 001 "mirrors-broken, but no dust"
                    peter kowald/damon smith

                    bpa 002 "the sale of tickets for money was abolished"
                    tony bevan/damon smith/scott r.looney

                    coming soon:
                    bpa 005 "sense of hearing"
                    carol genetti/damon smith + fred lonberg-holm

                    bpa 007 "zero plus"
                    phillip wachsmann/martin blume/aurora josephson/jacob lindsay/damon
                    smith

                    bpa 008 "the happymakers"
                    wolfgang fuchs/jacob lindsay/damon smith/serge baghdassarians/boris
                    baltschun

                    BPA 009 Aurora Josephson, Tanja Feictmair, jacob lindsay, damon
                    smith, Scott R. Looney




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Perfect Sound Forever
                    I m not going to argue with anyone here that Peaches is basically shite. Nevertheless, do we all really want the Wire to report on everything that they re
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 4, 2003
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                      I'm not going to argue with anyone here that Peaches is basically
                      shite. Nevertheless, do we all really want the Wire to report on
                      everything that they're always 'supposed to' in the avant side of music and
                      such ONLY? If your favorite magazine only reported on artists that you
                      already knew and loved, you'd get bored and disappointed eventually. Also,
                      it's one thing if they have an article like this in an issue as opposed to
                      devoted all or most of an issue to that. Finally, if they do start a
                      dialogue here about Peaches' worth or lack thereof and what's behind (or
                      not) her work, hasn't the magazine done something that most other music
                      magazines don't do nowadays- ACTUALLY MAKE US THINK ABOUT AN ARTIST AND
                      THEIR MUSIC?

                      Best,
                      Jason
                    • michael j
                      The fact that so many people have addressed the Peaches jukebox is reason enough for the magazine to print it. I personally could care less about this artist
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 4, 2003
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                        The fact that so many people have addressed the Peaches jukebox is
                        reason enough for the magazine to print it. I personally could care
                        less about this artist and I definitely don't buy the magazine for
                        the Invisible Jukebox feature. Often enough it is interesting and
                        revealing (especially with older artists),but in this case it just
                        confirms what I had already surmised about the lady's....er...place
                        in the world. She's doing no more to progress a woman's situation in
                        the Western world than Anita Bryant or Margaret Thatcher, and I for
                        one am not interested in watching her personal psychosexual drama
                        play out any more than I was interested in Lisa Suckdog Carver in
                        the 80s. This said, I am not in any way offended, bothered, or
                        intellectually insulted by The Wire running this. If I were, I would
                        simply NOT buy the rag
                        --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Perfect Sound Forever
                        <perfectlist@f...> wrote:
                        > I'm not going to argue with anyone here that Peaches is basically
                        > shite. Nevertheless, do we all really want the Wire to report on
                        > everything that they're always 'supposed to' in the avant side of
                        music and
                        > such ONLY? If your favorite magazine only reported on artists
                        that you
                        > already knew and loved, you'd get bored and disappointed
                        eventually. Also,
                        > it's one thing if they have an article like this in an issue as
                        opposed to
                        > devoted all or most of an issue to that. Finally, if they do
                        start a
                        > dialogue here about Peaches' worth or lack thereof and what's
                        behind (or
                        > not) her work, hasn't the magazine done something that most other
                        music
                        > magazines don't do nowadays- ACTUALLY MAKE US THINK ABOUT AN
                        ARTIST AND
                        > THEIR MUSIC?
                        >
                        > Best,
                        > Jason
                      • Keef
                        I m amused at this flap about the Peaches jukebox. I don t mind her. When I first heard her (a full TWO YEARS ago -- gotta remind everyone that her shelf
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 5, 2003
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                          I'm amused at this flap about the Peaches jukebox. I don't mind her.
                          When I first heard her (a full TWO YEARS ago -- gotta remind everyone
                          that her shelf life has expired by oh, 20 months or so), I thought, aw
                          how cute. Lots of titty songs, set to something that sounds like ESG.
                          Amazing that a lot of the Wire crowd even cares what with it being so
                          manufactured and prepackaged -- guess there really isn't a mainstream.
                          I got one because it was cute. It's in the novelty pile next to Jeff
                          Stryker's country record (something that's funnier, but is also way past
                          its shelf life).

                          But when I saw the Peaches jukebox, I thought, gee, we're hard up for
                          material aren't we? It's a little to me like the magazine suddenly
                          decided to go apeshit over Sifl 'n' Olly, or bitch about Napster.
                          Makes me wonder exactly how hip or with it or now the magazine actually
                          is, but then again, I've been wondering that since the late 90's.

                          Keef.
                        • mark winkelmannn
                          ... I like her music a lot but did think the jukebox was a bit obvious and straightforward, though hardly the worst thing they;ve ever printed. As for the
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 7, 2003
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                            >Its not the quality of Peaches' music or persona that I object to appearing
                            >in Wire, its the inability of the interviewer to ask anything probing,
                            >original or illuminating.

                            I like her music a lot but did think the jukebox was a bit obvious and
                            straightforward, though hardly the worst thing they;ve ever printed. As for
                            the reaction of some to her - it reminds me of at least one friend who
                            writes off any music wioth a hint of sex about it as clearly its pandering
                            to adolescent sexuality. Which shows a pretty poor understanding of both
                            music and sexuality if you ask me.

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