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Re: [thewire] elogy/eulogy and ageism

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  • chux
    Francois, Sorry that my punning didn t have you in stitches. ;-) It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in comments about the artist s
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 3, 2003
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      Francois,

      Sorry that my punning didn't have you in stitches. ;-)

      It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
      comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
      you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
      a 15 year-old?

      Regards,

      chx

      >
      >The guy is Portuguese, let's not forget that. My educated guess is that he
      >had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French "eloge",
      >which means praise. And the French "eloge" and the English "eulogy"
      >intersect on one meaning, the "eloge funebre" or funeral eulogy. French and
      >Portuguese sharing Latin origins, I suspect that's what happened here. Of
      >course, I didn't lament his death but I did praise his playing and marvelled
      >at the fact that he is only 15 years old (since I'm the one who wrote
      >first).
      >
      >Best
      >
      >Francois Couture
      >Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
      --

      "Quantify quality,
      qualify quantity."
      -chx

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    • François Couture
      ... Well, I don t know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older improvisers
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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        > It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
        > comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
        > you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
        > a 15 year-old?

        Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to
        free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older
        improvisers are better than younger, but there is surely something unusual
        (to say the least!) in finding such acute listening, depth in playing and
        involvement from a 15-year old like Guilherme Rodrigues.

        Best,

        Francois Couture
        Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
        Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

        Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
        Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
      • Damon Smith
        ... --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily for 40-50
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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          On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 05:28 AM, François Couture wrote:

          > Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it
          > comes to
          > free improvisation, I think age does matter.

          --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older
          musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily
          for 40-50 years like barre phillips, bill dixon, derek bailey or cecil
          taylor, also somehow there are so many very creative virtuoso
          improvisers it can be much harder at this point to find a non-virtuoso
          approach that stumbles onto something new...
          on the other hand as far as listening, there are some musicians i find
          interesting at all stages in their careers such as brötzmann or kowald,
          others like evan parker and barry guy i am more interested in their
          current work.
          guilherme seemed to be already be a fine cellist and an interesting
          improviser, when i saw him and as i listen now to a great cd he is on
          "assemblage".
          there are also plenty of older musicians who stopped working on their
          art and are no longer interesting, like charlie haden.
          i got an amazing small book last night "antoni tápies at 80", you can
          see allot of the works here:
          http://www.waddington-galleries.com/ARTIST/TAPI/STAPI2.HTM
          just like seeing cecil or (playing with him) you see how deeply
          someone can get into their art over time, if they get the time.
          damon smith
          http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
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