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Re: [thewire] Re: new issue

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  • François Couture
    ... Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses. Seriousness is not
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
      > From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>

      > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
      > star'?

      Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
      perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
      'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find something
      like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or a
      60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
      stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the artist
      perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the contrary
      can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of Weird Al
      Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).

      > why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
      > seriously than others?

      Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.

      My two cents,

      Francois Couture
      Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
      Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

      Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
      Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
    • Damon Smith
      i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say for himself (not
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
        i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i
        would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say
        for himself (not much). however, there in lies the problem. most of
        these people put more into their outfits (or bunny suits) than their
        art. so they never have much to say about it and it gets tiresome. i
        mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up elaborate
        anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time learning basic
        guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i am too busy to
        listen it.
        period.
        damon

        On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François Couture wrote:

        >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
        >
        >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or
        >> 'rock
        >> star'?
        >
        > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
        > perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
        > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find
        > something
        > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or
        > a
        > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
        > stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the
        > artist
        > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the
        > contrary
        > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of
        > Weird Al
        > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
        >
        >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
        >> seriously than others?
        >
        > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.
        >
        > My two cents,
        >
        > Francois Couture
        > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
        > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
        >
        > Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
        > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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        >
        >
      • Olivier Borzeix
        Yup! I ve wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
          Yup!

          I've wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some who are just selftaught or otherwise.

          I've especially noticed it in the beautiful world of electroacoustic music/composition.

          Olivier
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jon attwood
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:14 PM
          Subject: [thewire] Re: new issue


          ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
          wondered...

          what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
          star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
          seriously than others?

          in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
          doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
          i've often pondered...

          any thoughts / comments???

          jon.6

          (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
          'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)


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        • Rioual Jc
          Michael Gira is not a clown. He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years. Listen to World of Skin . I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
            Michael Gira is not a clown.
            He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years.
            Listen to "World of Skin".

            I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
            but you can make art without technique too.

            Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

            --- Damon Smith <damon@...> a
            écrit :
            ---------------------------------
            i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists
            personally, because i
            would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what
            he has to say
            for himself (not much). however, there in lies the
            problem. most of
            these people put more into their outfits (or bunny
            suits) than their
            art. so they never have much to say about it and it
            gets tiresome. i
            mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up
            elaborate
            anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time
            learning basic
            guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i
            am too busy to
            listen it.
            period.
            damon

            On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François
            Couture wrote:

            >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
            >
            >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a
            'pop musician' or
            >> 'rock
            >> star'?
            >
            > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in
            public, the way they
            > perceive themselves and carry that perception over
            to the masses.
            > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music.
            You can find
            > something
            > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles,
            or Frank Zappa, or
            > a
            > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai
            serious, brilliant or
            > stupid, it matters only to your taste.
            Hearing/reading about how the
            > artist
            > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth
            -- or on the
            > contrary
            > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is
            (why do I think of
            > Weird Al
            > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
            >
            >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get
            taken more
            >> seriously than others?
            >
            > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music
            journalists.
            >
            > My two cents,
            >
            > Francois Couture
            > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici),
            translator, proofreader.
            > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
            >
            > Personal webpage / Page personnelle:
            http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
            > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at
            http://www.allmusic.com
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ---------------------~-->
            > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
            Epson, Canon or Lexmark
            > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
            more to the US &
            > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
            >
            http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/nnJolB/TM
            >
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------

            > ~->
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > the wire mailing list
            > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >


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          • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
            ... Of course. Doesn t everyone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
              >Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

              Of course. Doesn't everyone?


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Daniel DiMaggio
              Speaking of lame covers.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 28, 2003
                Speaking of lame covers..



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • chux
                ... I really like the latest cover. Personally, I d like to see a guest designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes on the cover, just
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
                  >Speaking of lame covers..
                  >

                  I really like the latest cover. Personally, I'd like to see a guest
                  designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes
                  on the cover, just abstract things please.

                  It would also be much better if it just said "THE WIRE" and nothing
                  else. Well perhaps the occasional blasphemy just to attract
                  attention... but not in the sense of having Matmos on the cover.

                  chx
                  --

                  "Quantify quality,
                  qualify quantity."
                  -chx

                  [Portions of this message have
                  been subliminally enhanced]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gradyfinklemyer
                  I think they should start a bearded or mustachioed women of rock series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith. Mebbe last months cover
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
                    I think they should start a "bearded or mustachioed women of rock"
                    series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith.
                    Mebbe last months cover could count too.

                    --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                    wrote:
                    > Speaking of lame covers..
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • soxepke
                    ... I m neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but that unraveling type font is getting old REAL fast.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 30, 2003
                      --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > Speaking of lame covers..
                      >
                      >
                      I'm neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but
                      that "unraveling" type font is getting old REAL fast.
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