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Re: [thewire] Re: new issue

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  • aesloane
    Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to fuck with
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
      Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned
      Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to
      fuck with these distinctions. Everyone is begging for more obscurity on
      the cover. How about some incredibly problematic "pop" star photographed
      in that soul- baring stylee on the cover then given the Wire treatment
      inside the covers? Then you'd truly get naive fans buying the magazine,
      lining the coffers of our heroes, then flipping to their article and having
      their minds blown--being forced to think in a more consequential way about
      someone relentlessly portrayed in the mainstream media as a really
      simplistic caricature etc. And I'm sure the pop stars themselves are lining
      up for this treatment too, right?


      on 9/1/03 2:14 pm, jon attwood at jon@... wrote:

      > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
      > star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
      > seriously than others?
    • François Couture
      ... Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses. Seriousness is not
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
        > From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>

        > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
        > star'?

        Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
        perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
        'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find something
        like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or a
        60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
        stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the artist
        perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the contrary
        can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of Weird Al
        Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).

        > why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
        > seriously than others?

        Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.

        My two cents,

        Francois Couture
        Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
        Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

        Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
        Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
      • Damon Smith
        i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say for himself (not
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
          i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i
          would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say
          for himself (not much). however, there in lies the problem. most of
          these people put more into their outfits (or bunny suits) than their
          art. so they never have much to say about it and it gets tiresome. i
          mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up elaborate
          anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time learning basic
          guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i am too busy to
          listen it.
          period.
          damon

          On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François Couture wrote:

          >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
          >
          >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or
          >> 'rock
          >> star'?
          >
          > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
          > perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
          > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find
          > something
          > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or
          > a
          > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
          > stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the
          > artist
          > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the
          > contrary
          > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of
          > Weird Al
          > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
          >
          >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
          >> seriously than others?
          >
          > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.
          >
          > My two cents,
          >
          > Francois Couture
          > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
          > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
          >
          > Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
          > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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        • Olivier Borzeix
          Yup! I ve wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
            Yup!

            I've wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some who are just selftaught or otherwise.

            I've especially noticed it in the beautiful world of electroacoustic music/composition.

            Olivier
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jon attwood
            To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:14 PM
            Subject: [thewire] Re: new issue


            ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
            wondered...

            what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
            star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
            seriously than others?

            in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
            doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
            i've often pondered...

            any thoughts / comments???

            jon.6

            (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
            'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)


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          • Rioual Jc
            Michael Gira is not a clown. He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years. Listen to World of Skin . I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
              Michael Gira is not a clown.
              He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years.
              Listen to "World of Skin".

              I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
              but you can make art without technique too.

              Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

              --- Damon Smith <damon@...> a
              écrit :
              ---------------------------------
              i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists
              personally, because i
              would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what
              he has to say
              for himself (not much). however, there in lies the
              problem. most of
              these people put more into their outfits (or bunny
              suits) than their
              art. so they never have much to say about it and it
              gets tiresome. i
              mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up
              elaborate
              anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time
              learning basic
              guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i
              am too busy to
              listen it.
              period.
              damon

              On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François
              Couture wrote:

              >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
              >
              >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a
              'pop musician' or
              >> 'rock
              >> star'?
              >
              > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in
              public, the way they
              > perceive themselves and carry that perception over
              to the masses.
              > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music.
              You can find
              > something
              > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles,
              or Frank Zappa, or
              > a
              > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai
              serious, brilliant or
              > stupid, it matters only to your taste.
              Hearing/reading about how the
              > artist
              > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth
              -- or on the
              > contrary
              > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is
              (why do I think of
              > Weird Al
              > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
              >
              >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get
              taken more
              >> seriously than others?
              >
              > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music
              journalists.
              >
              > My two cents,
              >
              > Francois Couture
              > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici),
              translator, proofreader.
              > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
              >
              > Personal webpage / Page personnelle:
              http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
              > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at
              http://www.allmusic.com
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ---------------------~-->
              > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
              Epson, Canon or Lexmark
              > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
              more to the US &
              > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
              >
              http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/nnJolB/TM
              >
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------

              > ~->
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > the wire mailing list
              > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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            • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
              ... Of course. Doesn t everyone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
                >Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                Of course. Doesn't everyone?


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Daniel DiMaggio
                Speaking of lame covers.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 28, 2003
                  Speaking of lame covers..



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • chux
                  ... I really like the latest cover. Personally, I d like to see a guest designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes on the cover, just
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
                    >Speaking of lame covers..
                    >

                    I really like the latest cover. Personally, I'd like to see a guest
                    designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes
                    on the cover, just abstract things please.

                    It would also be much better if it just said "THE WIRE" and nothing
                    else. Well perhaps the occasional blasphemy just to attract
                    attention... but not in the sense of having Matmos on the cover.

                    chx
                    --

                    "Quantify quality,
                    qualify quantity."
                    -chx

                    [Portions of this message have
                    been subliminally enhanced]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • gradyfinklemyer
                    I think they should start a bearded or mustachioed women of rock series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith. Mebbe last months cover
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
                      I think they should start a "bearded or mustachioed women of rock"
                      series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith.
                      Mebbe last months cover could count too.

                      --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > Speaking of lame covers..
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • soxepke
                      ... I m neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but that unraveling type font is getting old REAL fast.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 30, 2003
                        --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                        wrote:
                        > Speaking of lame covers..
                        >
                        >
                        I'm neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but
                        that "unraveling" type font is getting old REAL fast.
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