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Re: new issue

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  • jon attwood
    ok... so here s a poser... something the I, as an artist have often wondered... what makes someone a serious artist rather than a pop musician or rock
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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      ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
      wondered...

      what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
      star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
      seriously than others?

      in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
      doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
      i've often pondered...

      any thoughts / comments???

      jon.6

      (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
      'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)
    • aesloane
      Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to fuck with
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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        Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned
        Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to
        fuck with these distinctions. Everyone is begging for more obscurity on
        the cover. How about some incredibly problematic "pop" star photographed
        in that soul- baring stylee on the cover then given the Wire treatment
        inside the covers? Then you'd truly get naive fans buying the magazine,
        lining the coffers of our heroes, then flipping to their article and having
        their minds blown--being forced to think in a more consequential way about
        someone relentlessly portrayed in the mainstream media as a really
        simplistic caricature etc. And I'm sure the pop stars themselves are lining
        up for this treatment too, right?


        on 9/1/03 2:14 pm, jon attwood at jon@... wrote:

        > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
        > star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
        > seriously than others?
      • François Couture
        ... Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses. Seriousness is not
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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          > From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>

          > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
          > star'?

          Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
          perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
          'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find something
          like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or a
          60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
          stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the artist
          perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the contrary
          can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of Weird Al
          Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).

          > why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
          > seriously than others?

          Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.

          My two cents,

          Francois Couture
          Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
          Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

          Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
          Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
        • Damon Smith
          i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say for himself (not
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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            i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i
            would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say
            for himself (not much). however, there in lies the problem. most of
            these people put more into their outfits (or bunny suits) than their
            art. so they never have much to say about it and it gets tiresome. i
            mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up elaborate
            anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time learning basic
            guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i am too busy to
            listen it.
            period.
            damon

            On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François Couture wrote:

            >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
            >
            >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or
            >> 'rock
            >> star'?
            >
            > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
            > perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
            > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find
            > something
            > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or
            > a
            > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
            > stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the
            > artist
            > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the
            > contrary
            > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of
            > Weird Al
            > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
            >
            >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
            >> seriously than others?
            >
            > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.
            >
            > My two cents,
            >
            > Francois Couture
            > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
            > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
            >
            > Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
            > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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          • Olivier Borzeix
            Yup! I ve wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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              Yup!

              I've wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some who are just selftaught or otherwise.

              I've especially noticed it in the beautiful world of electroacoustic music/composition.

              Olivier
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: jon attwood
              To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:14 PM
              Subject: [thewire] Re: new issue


              ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
              wondered...

              what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
              star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
              seriously than others?

              in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
              doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
              i've often pondered...

              any thoughts / comments???

              jon.6

              (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
              'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rioual Jc
              Michael Gira is not a clown. He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years. Listen to World of Skin . I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                Michael Gira is not a clown.
                He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years.
                Listen to "World of Skin".

                I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
                but you can make art without technique too.

                Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                --- Damon Smith <damon@...> a
                écrit :
                ---------------------------------
                i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists
                personally, because i
                would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what
                he has to say
                for himself (not much). however, there in lies the
                problem. most of
                these people put more into their outfits (or bunny
                suits) than their
                art. so they never have much to say about it and it
                gets tiresome. i
                mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up
                elaborate
                anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time
                learning basic
                guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i
                am too busy to
                listen it.
                period.
                damon

                On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François
                Couture wrote:

                >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
                >
                >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a
                'pop musician' or
                >> 'rock
                >> star'?
                >
                > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in
                public, the way they
                > perceive themselves and carry that perception over
                to the masses.
                > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music.
                You can find
                > something
                > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles,
                or Frank Zappa, or
                > a
                > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai
                serious, brilliant or
                > stupid, it matters only to your taste.
                Hearing/reading about how the
                > artist
                > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth
                -- or on the
                > contrary
                > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is
                (why do I think of
                > Weird Al
                > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
                >
                >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get
                taken more
                >> seriously than others?
                >
                > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music
                journalists.
                >
                > My two cents,
                >
                > Francois Couture
                > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici),
                translator, proofreader.
                > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
                >
                > Personal webpage / Page personnelle:
                http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at
                http://www.allmusic.com
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ---------------------~-->
                > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
                Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
                more to the US &
                > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                >
                http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/nnJolB/TM
                >
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------

                > ~->
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > the wire mailing list
                > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >


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              • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
                ... Of course. Doesn t everyone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                  >Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                  Of course. Doesn't everyone?


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Daniel DiMaggio
                  Speaking of lame covers.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 28, 2003
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                    Speaking of lame covers..



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • chux
                    ... I really like the latest cover. Personally, I d like to see a guest designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes on the cover, just
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                      >Speaking of lame covers..
                      >

                      I really like the latest cover. Personally, I'd like to see a guest
                      designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes
                      on the cover, just abstract things please.

                      It would also be much better if it just said "THE WIRE" and nothing
                      else. Well perhaps the occasional blasphemy just to attract
                      attention... but not in the sense of having Matmos on the cover.

                      chx
                      --

                      "Quantify quality,
                      qualify quantity."
                      -chx

                      [Portions of this message have
                      been subliminally enhanced]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gradyfinklemyer
                      I think they should start a bearded or mustachioed women of rock series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith. Mebbe last months cover
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                        I think they should start a "bearded or mustachioed women of rock"
                        series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith.
                        Mebbe last months cover could count too.

                        --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                        wrote:
                        > Speaking of lame covers..
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • soxepke
                        ... I m neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but that unraveling type font is getting old REAL fast.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 30, 2003
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                          --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                          wrote:
                          > Speaking of lame covers..
                          >
                          >
                          I'm neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but
                          that "unraveling" type font is getting old REAL fast.
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