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Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers

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  • Olivier Borzeix
    Talking bout that I m really looking forward for the Matmos french kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn mainstream headz onto 20th century
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Talking bout that I'm really looking forward for the Matmos french kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn "mainstream" headz onto 20th century contemporary music... plus... I'm pretty sure kagel would enjoy it...

      Olivier
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Rioual Jc
      To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:51 AM
      Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers



      People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
      are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
      morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
      music. :-)



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    • A.S. Van Dorston
      Why not? Plenty of people who like all those bands could easily get into other music. I was one of those indie schmoes who picked up an issue back in 90,
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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        Why not? Plenty of people who like all those bands could easily get into
        other music. I was one of those indie schmoes who picked up an issue back
        in '90, based on a cover (Sun Ra).

        At 06:41 AM 9/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:
        > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
        >on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the
        >other hand, if some indie schmoe picks up the Yo La Tengo issue, are
        >they really going to like the Kagel, Asmsus Tietchens, The Ex, etc
        >that was in that issue? I think the magazine has pretty much found
        >its audience, so they shouldn't be afraid of putting more obscure
        >artists on the cover. People who like the magazine are going to buy
        >it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
        >get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
        >are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
        >when they find out it isn't like Spin.
      • kraig grady
        One reason is Kagel s eyes are quite sensitive and he cannot have flash pictures taken of himself. ... -- -Kraig Grady North American Embassy of Anaphoria
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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          One reason is Kagel's eyes are quite sensitive and he cannot have flash pictures taken of himself.

          Olivier Borzeix wrote:

          > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
          > on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue.

          -- -Kraig Grady
          North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
          http://www.anaphoria.com
          The Wandering Medicine Show
          KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
        • Fred Epps
          Hi Grady, all, First time poster... I like Yo La Tengo. I like the Ex improv side projects but not their rock. I like what little I ve heard of Kagel. I just
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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            Hi Grady, all,

            First time poster...

            I like Yo La Tengo. I like the Ex improv side projects but not their rock.
            I like what little I've heard of Kagel. I just bought a Tiechens CD based
            on a Wire review but I don't quite get it yet--still digging in. I've
            listened to Matmos and such in the past but there doesn't seem to be much
            new happening in 'electronica' right now.

            What I listen to is basically determined by what I read in Wire, and Signal
            to Noise. When I read a positive review or article, I go find a sample on
            the net of that music, and decide what I think. If I like it, I buy it,
            within the constraints of my budget.

            I like to go my musical edges. If I have a strong negative feeling about a
            kind of music, I try to keep listening to it until I find something I like.
            I figure if all those people like it, it must have something to offer.
            Sometimes that assumption is wrong, but not often. This makes exploring
            music exciting for me.

            I assumed that people like me are the audience that Wire has found. That's
            what the breadth of coverage would indicate. But maybe I was wrong... maybe
            everyone who reads it is just dipping in to find new music that is just
            like what they already listen to.

            Even if that is true, Wire thankfully still exists as a resource for those
            of us who listen to more or less everything.

            Regards,
            Fred Epps
            >
            >
            > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
            > on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the
            > other hand, if some indie schmoe picks up the Yo La Tengo issue, are
            > they really going to like the Kagel, Asmsus Tietchens, The Ex, etc
            > that was in that issue? I think the magazine has pretty much found
            > its audience, so they shouldn't be afraid of putting more obscure
            > artists on the cover. People who like the magazine are going to buy
            > it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
            > get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
            > are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
            > when they find out it isn't like Spin.
            >
            > wrote:
            > > re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
            > > not -"eulogy".
            > >
            > > re: Matmos on the cover. What 5 covers are worthy in recent
            > months/years?
            > > and/or....what 5 artists should have made the cover? Then we can
            > get a
            > > better view of your taste. Realize that every musician that should
            > have made
            > > a Wire cover in your opinion is equally despised by some random
            > person on
            > > some random email list. Me? as someone else said, I don't think
            > anyone
            > > should get more than one cover-ever-. But thats just me.
            > >
            > > Peter
            > >
            > > np: Stan Kenton- New Concepts
            > >
            > >
            > > > Message: 1
            > > > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:21:52 +1000
            > > > From: chux <chux_vom@o...>
            > > > Subject: Re: only 15
            > > >
            > > >> Whats more impressive than Guilherme being 15 years old is that
            > a 15 year
            > > >> old used the word "elogy" in a sentence!
            > > >>
            > > >> !!
            > > >
            > > > 15 is too young to die.
            > > >
            > > > chx
            > >
            > >
            > > Message: 2
            > > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:05:23 -0000
            > > From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@y...>
            > > Subject: new issue
            > >
            > > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left
            > the
            > > cover blank, instead?
            > > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
            > > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
            > > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
            > >
            > > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.
            >
            >
            >
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          • kraig grady
            that isn t even music ... -- -Kraig Grady North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island http://www.anaphoria.com The Wandering Medicine Show KXLU 88.9 FM WED
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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              that isn't even music

              Rioual Jc wrote:

              > People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
              > are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
              > morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
              > music. :-)
              >

              -- -Kraig Grady
              North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
              http://www.anaphoria.com
              The Wandering Medicine Show
              KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
            • gradyfinklemyer
              What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that some queer people have a need to shove their sexuality in other people s faces? Is it reflective of
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?

                --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Olivier Borzeix" <oborzeix@s...>
                wrote:
                > Talking bout that I'm really looking forward for the Matmos french
                kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn "mainstream" headz
                onto 20th century contemporary music... plus... I'm pretty sure kagel
                would enjoy it...
                >
                > Olivier
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Rioual Jc
                > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:51 AM
                > Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers
                >
                >
                >
                > People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
                > are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
                > morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
                > music. :-)
                >
                >
                >
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              • jamello@aol.com
                i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week s mtv awards show. now THAT would make a fine
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                  i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the
                  madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week's mtv awards show. now THAT would make a
                  fine wire cover...


                  In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  gradyfinklemyer@... writes:
                  What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                  some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                  people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                  what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gradyfinklemyer
                  Oh darn, I missed that part. I did get to see my superfly heroine Missy E though. How can one person be so FINE and so talented? Damn, I missed Fifty Cent too.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                    Oh darn, I missed that part. I did get to see my superfly heroine
                    Missy E though. How can one person be so FINE and so talented? Damn,
                    I missed Fifty Cent too. "fitty cent, fitty cent, anybody got fitty
                    cent?" I heard the Derek Bailey collaboration with Metallica (the
                    showstopper at the end) was really good too.

                    --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, jamello@a... wrote:
                    > i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the
                    > madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week's mtv awards
                    show. now THAT would make a
                    > fine wire cover...
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    > gradyfinklemyer@y... writes:
                    > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                    > some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                    > people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society
                    now,
                    > what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • michael j
                    OK, so I understand that Christina Agueilera, Eve Libertine and Gilly Smyth are going to throwdown on the cover simultaneously blindfolded by Francisco Lopez
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                      OK, so I understand that Christina Agueilera, Eve Libertine and
                      Gilly Smyth are going to throwdown on the cover
                      simultaneously 'blindfolded' by Francisco Lopez for a truly
                      diaphonous jukebox, with a primer on "gradyfinklemyer" <Damn,
                      >fitty
                      > > fine wire cover...
                      > >
                      I'm running for editor !!!

                      michael neverbeenonthecover jackson
                      > >
                      > > In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      > > gradyfinklemyer@y... writes:
                      > > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                      > > some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in
                      other
                      > > people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society
                      > now,
                      > > what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • marijne
                      ... try not to watch tv. it s devastating. marijne
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                        At 22:34 03-09-01 +0000, you wrote:
                        > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                        >some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                        >people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                        >what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?

                        try not to watch tv. it's devastating.

                        marijne
                      • Damon Smith
                        ... --speaking of this, what is really grating was having yo la tengo waste space in both the wire and stn recently. it is not that they bad or that one gets
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                          On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 11:40 AM, Fred Epps wrote:

                          > What I listen to is basically determined by what I read in Wire, and
                          > Signal
                          > to Noise.
                          --speaking of this, what is really grating was having yo la tengo
                          waste space in both the wire and stn recently.
                          it is not that they bad or that one gets more pleasure listing to eddie
                          prevost or kagel, it just that yo la tengo did not have anything very
                          interesting to say. since we read the wire, and don't listen to it, it
                          gets down to how much these people have worked out what they are
                          doing, and what they have to say about it.
                          unless of course they can talk about elaborate anonymous sex scenes.
                          btw anyone even if they are micheal gira is a clown if they will not
                          take the little time to learn about what they are doing.
                          with so many great musicians making great music i don't have time to
                          listen to, i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in his 40s
                          who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not asking virtuosity,
                          i am asking for basic competence.
                          as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle léandre/jonathan
                          segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                          damon
                        • Rioual Jc
                          I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith who can t spend some time in learning to sing. I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence. ... Yahoo!
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                            I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith
                            who can't spend some time in learning to sing.
                            I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence.

                            > i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in
                            >his 40s
                            >who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not
                            >asking virtuosity,
                            >i am asking for basic competence.
                            >as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle
                            >léandre/jonathan
                            >segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                            >damon


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                          • chux
                            ... You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me. However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says (selectively
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                              Peter:
                              >re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
                              >not -"eulogy".

                              You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me.

                              However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says
                              (selectively quoting), "4. A funeral oration."

                              chx
                              --

                              "Quantify quality,
                              qualify quantity."
                              -chx

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                            • gradyfinklemyer
                              He can sing as well as Dr.Eno.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                He can sing as well as Dr.Eno.

                                --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith
                                > who can't spend some time in learning to sing.
                                > I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence.
                                >
                                > > i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in
                                > >his 40s
                                > >who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not
                                > >asking virtuosity,
                                > >i am asking for basic competence.
                                > >as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle
                                > >léandre/jonathan
                                > >segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                                > >damon
                                >
                                >
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                              • François Couture
                                ... The guy is Portuguese, let s not forget that. My educated guess is that he had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French eloge , which
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                  >> re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
                                  >> not -"eulogy".
                                  >
                                  > You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me.
                                  >
                                  > However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says
                                  > (selectively quoting), "4. A funeral oration."

                                  The guy is Portuguese, let's not forget that. My educated guess is that he
                                  had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French "eloge",
                                  which means praise. And the French "eloge" and the English "eulogy"
                                  intersect on one meaning, the "eloge funebre" or funeral eulogy. French and
                                  Portuguese sharing Latin origins, I suspect that's what happened here. Of
                                  course, I didn't lament his death but I did praise his playing and marvelled
                                  at the fact that he is only 15 years old (since I'm the one who wrote
                                  first).

                                  Best

                                  Francois Couture
                                  Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                  Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

                                  Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                  Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                • chux
                                  Francois, Sorry that my punning didn t have you in stitches. ;-) It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in comments about the artist s
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                    Francois,

                                    Sorry that my punning didn't have you in stitches. ;-)

                                    It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
                                    comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
                                    you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
                                    a 15 year-old?

                                    Regards,

                                    chx

                                    >
                                    >The guy is Portuguese, let's not forget that. My educated guess is that he
                                    >had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French "eloge",
                                    >which means praise. And the French "eloge" and the English "eulogy"
                                    >intersect on one meaning, the "eloge funebre" or funeral eulogy. French and
                                    >Portuguese sharing Latin origins, I suspect that's what happened here. Of
                                    >course, I didn't lament his death but I did praise his playing and marvelled
                                    >at the fact that he is only 15 years old (since I'm the one who wrote
                                    >first).
                                    >
                                    >Best
                                    >
                                    >Francois Couture
                                    >Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                    --

                                    "Quantify quality,
                                    qualify quantity."
                                    -chx

                                    [Portions of this message have
                                    been subliminally enhanced]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • François Couture
                                    ... Well, I don t know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older improvisers
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                      > It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
                                      > comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
                                      > you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
                                      > a 15 year-old?

                                      Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to
                                      free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older
                                      improvisers are better than younger, but there is surely something unusual
                                      (to say the least!) in finding such acute listening, depth in playing and
                                      involvement from a 15-year old like Guilherme Rodrigues.

                                      Best,

                                      Francois Couture
                                      Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                      Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

                                      Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                      Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                    • Damon Smith
                                      ... --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily for 40-50
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                        On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 05:28 AM, François Couture wrote:

                                        > Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it
                                        > comes to
                                        > free improvisation, I think age does matter.

                                        --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older
                                        musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily
                                        for 40-50 years like barre phillips, bill dixon, derek bailey or cecil
                                        taylor, also somehow there are so many very creative virtuoso
                                        improvisers it can be much harder at this point to find a non-virtuoso
                                        approach that stumbles onto something new...
                                        on the other hand as far as listening, there are some musicians i find
                                        interesting at all stages in their careers such as brötzmann or kowald,
                                        others like evan parker and barry guy i am more interested in their
                                        current work.
                                        guilherme seemed to be already be a fine cellist and an interesting
                                        improviser, when i saw him and as i listen now to a great cd he is on
                                        "assemblage".
                                        there are also plenty of older musicians who stopped working on their
                                        art and are no longer interesting, like charlie haden.
                                        i got an amazing small book last night "antoni tápies at 80", you can
                                        see allot of the works here:
                                        http://www.waddington-galleries.com/ARTIST/TAPI/STAPI2.HTM
                                        just like seeing cecil or (playing with him) you see how deeply
                                        someone can get into their art over time, if they get the time.
                                        damon smith
                                        http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
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