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Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers

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  • John Jones
    Hear, hear - some of us actually like pop and experimental (and have come to experimental from pop, rather than classical or jazz). I hope the mag just stays
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Hear, hear - some of us actually like pop and
      experimental (and have come to experimental from pop,
      rather than classical or jazz). I hope the mag just
      stays on mixing it up in terms of coverage of
      different types of music which will include - gasp -
      acts who may be slightly popular...

      --- Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@...> wrote:
      ---------------------------------
      I think that you are wrong on this point.
      Many readers (me among them) enjoy "pop" articles
      in the Wire.

      There are other publications with a more
      in-depth approach towards modern
      composition/theory.


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    • Rioual Jc
      I completly agree with you and I think they have reached a good balance. I come from industrial music and have discovered a lot of wonderful bands in the
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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        I completly agree with you and I think they
        have reached a good balance.
        I come from industrial music and have discovered
        a lot of wonderful bands in the magazine.
        There are many things I am not interested in the
        magazine but I don't want to remove them!

        And believe it or not I still don't know who is
        Derek Bailey.

        --- John Jones <jahminguk@...> a écrit :
        ---------------------------------
        Hear, hear - some of us actually like pop and
        experimental (and have come to experimental from pop,
        rather than classical or jazz). I hope the mag just
        stays on mixing it up in terms of coverage of
        different types of music which will include - gasp -
        acts who may be slightly popular...



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      • mark winkelmannn
        ... Actually thats exactly how I, and several people I know started reading it. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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          >it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
          >get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
          >are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
          >when they find out it isn't like Spin.

          Actually thats exactly how I, and several people I know started reading it.

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        • Olivier Borzeix
          Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the other hand, if some indie
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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            Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
            on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the
            other hand, if some indie schmoe picks up the Yo La Tengo issue, are
            they really going to like the Kagel, Asmsus Tietchens, The Ex, etc
            that was in that issue?

            *I am on of those that loves all of those artists you sited, spooky hu?

            I think the magazine has pretty much found
            its audience, so they shouldn't be afraid of putting more obscure
            artists on the cover. People who like the magazine are going to buy
            it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
            get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
            are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
            when they find out it isn't like Spin.

            *Well... I remember discovering the Wire when Merzbow was on the cover on a trip to Toronto. I was lucky, if it wouldn't have been for the cover it would certainly have taken me years to discover The Wire (my favourite mag now).
            I sense a huge snobery in pretty much all posts on the new issue... You know, when you come from a small country town like I do it's not as easy to know about things like the Wire as when you're living in big cities. And, No, i don't think the Wire is selling out or just giving up to trend because they put Matmos (though I'm not impressed by them at all) instead of Bailey, Kowald etc. on the cover... think they've done pretty much for those lasts in the pasts and even lately.

            *I do agree that The Wire cover won't change the world of indie/post/shoogaze/whatever rock by converting all of its inhabitant to musique concrète/improv/free jazz but it can sometimes enlighten some peoples like it did for me 3 years ago! Peoples who listen to Radiohead, DJ Shadow, Björk etc....aren't all on their way to discover more avant-garde music but there's a huge part of them who have the potential to head this way if they are made aware such things simply exist.

            The Wire is the best entry to that world in my opinion.

            My two cents.

            Olivier

            wrote:
            > re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
            > not -"eulogy".
            >
            > re: Matmos on the cover. What 5 covers are worthy in recent
            months/years?
            > and/or....what 5 artists should have made the cover? Then we can
            get a
            > better view of your taste. Realize that every musician that should
            have made
            > a Wire cover in your opinion is equally despised by some random
            person on
            > some random email list. Me? as someone else said, I don't think
            anyone
            > should get more than one cover-ever-. But thats just me.
            >
            > Peter
            >
            > np: Stan Kenton- New Concepts
            >
            >
            > > Message: 1
            > > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:21:52 +1000
            > > From: chux <chux_vom@o...>
            > > Subject: Re: only 15
            > >
            > >> Whats more impressive than Guilherme being 15 years old is that
            a 15 year
            > >> old used the word "elogy" in a sentence!
            > >>
            > >> !!
            > >
            > > 15 is too young to die.
            > >
            > > chx
            >
            >
            > Message: 2
            > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:05:23 -0000
            > From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@y...>
            > Subject: new issue
            >
            > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left
            the
            > cover blank, instead?
            > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
            > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
            > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
            >
            > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.



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          • stuff1424@aol.com
            Yeah, I ve recorded my toilet too. Wire staff take note! I m 18 years of age and would rather read about Tod Dockstader than Matmos. That s Tod Dockstader.
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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              Yeah, I've recorded my toilet too. Wire staff take note!



              I'm 18 years of age and would rather read about Tod Dockstader than Matmos.
              That's Tod Dockstader. Personally, I think Matmos bring musique concrete ideas
              along rather nicely into THIS century with style and with humour. Cover issue
              deserved. But it didn't get me searching the net, hunting down anything.
              Here's hoping next month will be different because if it were to be Kagel on cover,
              and I don't see why it's not possible, we'd be 'mixing it up' as intended.
              Way too often Wire stick with the big names. Great if you’re a Matmos fan but
              shouldn't your musique concrete collection be weighing more than your Matmos
              one? No? Tod Dockstader cover then, and the rest. Use that photo of him looking
              smooth, smoking a fag to win over the Spin crowd. Thanks for Sunburned Hand Of
              The Man etc. I knew nothing about them and though it's not my sort of thing,
              this is what reading is for. What I don't need is a cover feature on my Sonic
              Youth collection. Give the cover to those that really need it. There's loads of
              Matmos fans like me looking to start a Basil Kirchin collection, I don't
              their names, I'm assuming. The 20th anniversary issue was brilliant. Blank cover,
              every featured artist inside arranged as if they were the stars. Or maybe
              organise a fight for the cover between the up-and-coming-Yo-La-Tengo-worshipping
              bands, I don't their names, I assume they exist, an important band like Yo La
              Tengo...



              Rich




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • stuff1424@aol.com
              Sorry, my computer refused to include the word know into two sentences. In a message dated 01/09/03 15:56:38 GMT Daylight Time, stuff1424@aol.com ...
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                Sorry, my computer refused to include the word 'know' into two sentences.

                In a message dated 01/09/03 15:56:38 GMT Daylight Time, stuff1424@...
                writes:
                > Yeah, I've recorded my toilet too. Wire staff take note!

                >

                > I'm 18 years of age and would rather read about Tod Dockstader than Matmos.

                > That's Tod Dockstader. Personally, I think Matmos bring musique concrete
                > ideas

                > along rather nicely into THIS century with style and with humour. Cover
                > issue

                > deserved. But it didn't get me searching the net, hunting down anything.

                > Here's hoping next month will be different because if it were to be Kagel on
                > cover,

                > and I don't see why it's not possible, we'd be 'mixing it up' as intended.

                > Way too often Wire stick with the big names. Great if you’re a Matmos fan
                > but

                > shouldn't your musique concrete collection be weighing more than your Matmos

                > one? No? Tod Dockstader cover then, and the rest. Use that photo of him
                > looking

                > smooth, smoking a fag to win over the Spin crowd. Thanks for Sunburned Hand
                > Of

                > The Man etc. I knew nothing about them and though it's not my sort of thing,

                > this is what reading is for. What I don't need is a cover feature on my
                > Sonic

                > Youth collection. Give the cover to those that really need it. There's loads
                > of

                > Matmos fans like me looking to start a Basil Kirchin collection, I don't

                > their names, I'm assuming. The 20th anniversary issue was brilliant. Blank
                > cover,

                > every featured artist inside arranged as if they were the stars. Or maybe

                > organise a fight for the cover between the
                > up-and-coming-Yo-La-Tengo-worshipping

                > bands, I don't their names, I assume they exist, an important band like Yo
                > La

                > Tengo...

                >

                >

                >

                > Rich

                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rioual Jc
                People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango are mainstream bands should turn on their Tv one morning and have a look at what is really mainstream music. :-)
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                  People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
                  are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
                  morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
                  music. :-)



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                • Olivier Borzeix
                  Talking bout that I m really looking forward for the Matmos french kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn mainstream headz onto 20th century
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                    Talking bout that I'm really looking forward for the Matmos french kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn "mainstream" headz onto 20th century contemporary music... plus... I'm pretty sure kagel would enjoy it...

                    Olivier
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Rioual Jc
                    To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:51 AM
                    Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers



                    People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
                    are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
                    morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
                    music. :-)



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                  • A.S. Van Dorston
                    Why not? Plenty of people who like all those bands could easily get into other music. I was one of those indie schmoes who picked up an issue back in 90,
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                      Why not? Plenty of people who like all those bands could easily get into
                      other music. I was one of those indie schmoes who picked up an issue back
                      in '90, based on a cover (Sun Ra).

                      At 06:41 AM 9/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:
                      > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
                      >on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the
                      >other hand, if some indie schmoe picks up the Yo La Tengo issue, are
                      >they really going to like the Kagel, Asmsus Tietchens, The Ex, etc
                      >that was in that issue? I think the magazine has pretty much found
                      >its audience, so they shouldn't be afraid of putting more obscure
                      >artists on the cover. People who like the magazine are going to buy
                      >it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
                      >get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
                      >are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
                      >when they find out it isn't like Spin.
                    • kraig grady
                      One reason is Kagel s eyes are quite sensitive and he cannot have flash pictures taken of himself. ... -- -Kraig Grady North American Embassy of Anaphoria
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                        One reason is Kagel's eyes are quite sensitive and he cannot have flash pictures taken of himself.

                        Olivier Borzeix wrote:

                        > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
                        > on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue.

                        -- -Kraig Grady
                        North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
                        http://www.anaphoria.com
                        The Wandering Medicine Show
                        KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
                      • Fred Epps
                        Hi Grady, all, First time poster... I like Yo La Tengo. I like the Ex improv side projects but not their rock. I like what little I ve heard of Kagel. I just
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                          Hi Grady, all,

                          First time poster...

                          I like Yo La Tengo. I like the Ex improv side projects but not their rock.
                          I like what little I've heard of Kagel. I just bought a Tiechens CD based
                          on a Wire review but I don't quite get it yet--still digging in. I've
                          listened to Matmos and such in the past but there doesn't seem to be much
                          new happening in 'electronica' right now.

                          What I listen to is basically determined by what I read in Wire, and Signal
                          to Noise. When I read a positive review or article, I go find a sample on
                          the net of that music, and decide what I think. If I like it, I buy it,
                          within the constraints of my budget.

                          I like to go my musical edges. If I have a strong negative feeling about a
                          kind of music, I try to keep listening to it until I find something I like.
                          I figure if all those people like it, it must have something to offer.
                          Sometimes that assumption is wrong, but not often. This makes exploring
                          music exciting for me.

                          I assumed that people like me are the audience that Wire has found. That's
                          what the breadth of coverage would indicate. But maybe I was wrong... maybe
                          everyone who reads it is just dipping in to find new music that is just
                          like what they already listen to.

                          Even if that is true, Wire thankfully still exists as a resource for those
                          of us who listen to more or less everything.

                          Regards,
                          Fred Epps
                          >
                          >
                          > Yo La Tengo is pretty useless, but I can see why they would put them
                          > on the cover instead of Kagel, who was in the same issue. On the
                          > other hand, if some indie schmoe picks up the Yo La Tengo issue, are
                          > they really going to like the Kagel, Asmsus Tietchens, The Ex, etc
                          > that was in that issue? I think the magazine has pretty much found
                          > its audience, so they shouldn't be afraid of putting more obscure
                          > artists on the cover. People who like the magazine are going to buy
                          > it regardless of who's on the cover, and the few extra sales they may
                          > get from a Yo La Tengo, Radiohead, Mercury Rev, or DJ Shadow cover
                          > are probably not going to have first time buyers coming back for more
                          > when they find out it isn't like Spin.
                          >
                          > wrote:
                          > > re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
                          > > not -"eulogy".
                          > >
                          > > re: Matmos on the cover. What 5 covers are worthy in recent
                          > months/years?
                          > > and/or....what 5 artists should have made the cover? Then we can
                          > get a
                          > > better view of your taste. Realize that every musician that should
                          > have made
                          > > a Wire cover in your opinion is equally despised by some random
                          > person on
                          > > some random email list. Me? as someone else said, I don't think
                          > anyone
                          > > should get more than one cover-ever-. But thats just me.
                          > >
                          > > Peter
                          > >
                          > > np: Stan Kenton- New Concepts
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Message: 1
                          > > > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:21:52 +1000
                          > > > From: chux <chux_vom@o...>
                          > > > Subject: Re: only 15
                          > > >
                          > > >> Whats more impressive than Guilherme being 15 years old is that
                          > a 15 year
                          > > >> old used the word "elogy" in a sentence!
                          > > >>
                          > > >> !!
                          > > >
                          > > > 15 is too young to die.
                          > > >
                          > > > chx
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Message: 2
                          > > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:05:23 -0000
                          > > From: "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@y...>
                          > > Subject: new issue
                          > >
                          > > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left
                          > the
                          > > cover blank, instead?
                          > > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
                          > > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
                          > > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
                          > >
                          > > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
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                          > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • kraig grady
                          that isn t even music ... -- -Kraig Grady North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island http://www.anaphoria.com The Wandering Medicine Show KXLU 88.9 FM WED
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                            that isn't even music

                            Rioual Jc wrote:

                            > People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
                            > are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
                            > morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
                            > music. :-)
                            >

                            -- -Kraig Grady
                            North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
                            http://www.anaphoria.com
                            The Wandering Medicine Show
                            KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
                          • gradyfinklemyer
                            What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that some queer people have a need to shove their sexuality in other people s faces? Is it reflective of
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                              What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                              some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                              people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                              what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?

                              --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Olivier Borzeix" <oborzeix@s...>
                              wrote:
                              > Talking bout that I'm really looking forward for the Matmos french
                              kissing Mauricio Kagel... maybe that would turn "mainstream" headz
                              onto 20th century contemporary music... plus... I'm pretty sure kagel
                              would enjoy it...
                              >
                              > Olivier
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Rioual Jc
                              > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 11:51 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [thewire] Re: elogy/eulogy and Matmos covers
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > People who think that Matmos and Yo La Tango
                              > are "mainstream" bands should turn on their Tv one
                              > morning and have a look at what is really mainstream
                              > music. :-)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ___________________________________________________________
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                              > ADVERTISEMENT
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                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • jamello@aol.com
                              i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week s mtv awards show. now THAT would make a fine
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the
                                madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week's mtv awards show. now THAT would make a
                                fine wire cover...


                                In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                gradyfinklemyer@... writes:
                                What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                                some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                                people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                                what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • gradyfinklemyer
                                Oh darn, I missed that part. I did get to see my superfly heroine Missy E though. How can one person be so FINE and so talented? Damn, I missed Fifty Cent too.
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                  Oh darn, I missed that part. I did get to see my superfly heroine
                                  Missy E though. How can one person be so FINE and so talented? Damn,
                                  I missed Fifty Cent too. "fitty cent, fitty cent, anybody got fitty
                                  cent?" I heard the Derek Bailey collaboration with Metallica (the
                                  showstopper at the end) was really good too.

                                  --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, jamello@a... wrote:
                                  > i actually took his comment to be more of a joke re: the
                                  > madonna-britney-christina three-way snog on last week's mtv awards
                                  show. now THAT would make a
                                  > fine wire cover...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  > gradyfinklemyer@y... writes:
                                  > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                                  > some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                                  > people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society
                                  now,
                                  > what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • michael j
                                  OK, so I understand that Christina Agueilera, Eve Libertine and Gilly Smyth are going to throwdown on the cover simultaneously blindfolded by Francisco Lopez
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                    OK, so I understand that Christina Agueilera, Eve Libertine and
                                    Gilly Smyth are going to throwdown on the cover
                                    simultaneously 'blindfolded' by Francisco Lopez for a truly
                                    diaphonous jukebox, with a primer on "gradyfinklemyer" <Damn,
                                    >fitty
                                    > > fine wire cover...
                                    > >
                                    I'm running for editor !!!

                                    michael neverbeenonthecover jackson
                                    > >
                                    > > In a message dated 9/1/2003 6:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    > > gradyfinklemyer@y... writes:
                                    > > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                                    > > some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in
                                    other
                                    > > people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society
                                    > now,
                                    > > what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • marijne
                                    ... try not to watch tv. it s devastating. marijne
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                      At 22:34 03-09-01 +0000, you wrote:
                                      > What does that have to do with the music? Why is it that
                                      >some "queer" people have a need to shove their sexuality in other
                                      >people's faces? Is it reflective of the general trend in society now,
                                      >what with a new "gay" tv show popping up every other week?

                                      try not to watch tv. it's devastating.

                                      marijne
                                    • Damon Smith
                                      ... --speaking of this, what is really grating was having yo la tengo waste space in both the wire and stn recently. it is not that they bad or that one gets
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                        On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 11:40 AM, Fred Epps wrote:

                                        > What I listen to is basically determined by what I read in Wire, and
                                        > Signal
                                        > to Noise.
                                        --speaking of this, what is really grating was having yo la tengo
                                        waste space in both the wire and stn recently.
                                        it is not that they bad or that one gets more pleasure listing to eddie
                                        prevost or kagel, it just that yo la tengo did not have anything very
                                        interesting to say. since we read the wire, and don't listen to it, it
                                        gets down to how much these people have worked out what they are
                                        doing, and what they have to say about it.
                                        unless of course they can talk about elaborate anonymous sex scenes.
                                        btw anyone even if they are micheal gira is a clown if they will not
                                        take the little time to learn about what they are doing.
                                        with so many great musicians making great music i don't have time to
                                        listen to, i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in his 40s
                                        who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not asking virtuosity,
                                        i am asking for basic competence.
                                        as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle léandre/jonathan
                                        segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                                        damon
                                      • Rioual Jc
                                        I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith who can t spend some time in learning to sing. I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence. ... Yahoo!
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                          I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith
                                          who can't spend some time in learning to sing.
                                          I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence.

                                          > i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in
                                          >his 40s
                                          >who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not
                                          >asking virtuosity,
                                          >i am asking for basic competence.
                                          >as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle
                                          >léandre/jonathan
                                          >segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                                          >damon


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                                        • chux
                                          ... You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me. However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says (selectively
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                            Peter:
                                            >re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
                                            >not -"eulogy".

                                            You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me.

                                            However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says
                                            (selectively quoting), "4. A funeral oration."

                                            chx
                                            --

                                            "Quantify quality,
                                            qualify quantity."
                                            -chx

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                                          • gradyfinklemyer
                                            He can sing as well as Dr.Eno.
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                              He can sing as well as Dr.Eno.

                                              --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@y...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I am not interested in listening to Fred Frith
                                              > who can't spend some time in learning to sing.
                                              > I am not asking for virtuosity but basic competence.
                                              >
                                              > > i am not going to waste my time with some jerk in
                                              > >his 40s
                                              > >who can't spend a few minutes on his craft. i am not
                                              > >asking virtuosity,
                                              > >i am asking for basic competence.
                                              > >as it is, i'll listen to the new fred frith/joëlle
                                              > >léandre/jonathan
                                              > >segal instead if i want to hear guitar.
                                              > >damon
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                                              >
                                              > _______________________________________________
                                              > the wire mailing list
                                              > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                              > Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              > ___________________________________________________________
                                              > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
                                              > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
                                            • François Couture
                                              ... The guy is Portuguese, let s not forget that. My educated guess is that he had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French eloge , which
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                                >> re: 15 is too young to die. Yes, agreed. He used the word "elogy"
                                                >> not -"eulogy".
                                                >
                                                > You can can make it mean what you wish and will get no argument from me.
                                                >
                                                > However, what does your dictionary say on the matter? Mine says
                                                > (selectively quoting), "4. A funeral oration."

                                                The guy is Portuguese, let's not forget that. My educated guess is that he
                                                had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French "eloge",
                                                which means praise. And the French "eloge" and the English "eulogy"
                                                intersect on one meaning, the "eloge funebre" or funeral eulogy. French and
                                                Portuguese sharing Latin origins, I suspect that's what happened here. Of
                                                course, I didn't lament his death but I did praise his playing and marvelled
                                                at the fact that he is only 15 years old (since I'm the one who wrote
                                                first).

                                                Best

                                                Francois Couture
                                                Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                                Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

                                                Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                                Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                              • chux
                                                Francois, Sorry that my punning didn t have you in stitches. ;-) It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in comments about the artist s
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 3, 2003
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                                                  Francois,

                                                  Sorry that my punning didn't have you in stitches. ;-)

                                                  It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
                                                  comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
                                                  you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
                                                  a 15 year-old?

                                                  Regards,

                                                  chx

                                                  >
                                                  >The guy is Portuguese, let's not forget that. My educated guess is that he
                                                  >had a Portuguese word in mind that would be close to the French "eloge",
                                                  >which means praise. And the French "eloge" and the English "eulogy"
                                                  >intersect on one meaning, the "eloge funebre" or funeral eulogy. French and
                                                  >Portuguese sharing Latin origins, I suspect that's what happened here. Of
                                                  >course, I didn't lament his death but I did praise his playing and marvelled
                                                  >at the fact that he is only 15 years old (since I'm the one who wrote
                                                  >first).
                                                  >
                                                  >Best
                                                  >
                                                  >Francois Couture
                                                  >Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                                  --

                                                  "Quantify quality,
                                                  qualify quantity."
                                                  -chx

                                                  [Portions of this message have
                                                  been subliminally enhanced]

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • François Couture
                                                  ... Well, I don t know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older improvisers
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                                    > It was a response to the recapitulation of the ageism implicit in
                                                    > comments about the artist's age. What difference does it make (to
                                                    > you) if an artist is 15 or 51? How much less (or more) do expect from
                                                    > a 15 year-old?

                                                    Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it comes to
                                                    free improvisation, I think age does matter. Not to say that older
                                                    improvisers are better than younger, but there is surely something unusual
                                                    (to say the least!) in finding such acute listening, depth in playing and
                                                    involvement from a 15-year old like Guilherme Rodrigues.

                                                    Best,

                                                    Francois Couture
                                                    Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                                    Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

                                                    Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                                    Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                                  • Damon Smith
                                                    ... --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily for 40-50
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 4, 2003
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                                                      On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 05:28 AM, François Couture wrote:

                                                      > Well, I don't know what other listers think (Damon?), but when it
                                                      > comes to
                                                      > free improvisation, I think age does matter.

                                                      --i think the difference in improvisation is there are a ton of older
                                                      musicians still around who have been working hard and practicing daily
                                                      for 40-50 years like barre phillips, bill dixon, derek bailey or cecil
                                                      taylor, also somehow there are so many very creative virtuoso
                                                      improvisers it can be much harder at this point to find a non-virtuoso
                                                      approach that stumbles onto something new...
                                                      on the other hand as far as listening, there are some musicians i find
                                                      interesting at all stages in their careers such as brötzmann or kowald,
                                                      others like evan parker and barry guy i am more interested in their
                                                      current work.
                                                      guilherme seemed to be already be a fine cellist and an interesting
                                                      improviser, when i saw him and as i listen now to a great cd he is on
                                                      "assemblage".
                                                      there are also plenty of older musicians who stopped working on their
                                                      art and are no longer interesting, like charlie haden.
                                                      i got an amazing small book last night "antoni tápies at 80", you can
                                                      see allot of the works here:
                                                      http://www.waddington-galleries.com/ARTIST/TAPI/STAPI2.HTM
                                                      just like seeing cecil or (playing with him) you see how deeply
                                                      someone can get into their art over time, if they get the time.
                                                      damon smith
                                                      http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
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