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Re: new issue

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  • gradyfinklemyer
    how sterile of me, I meant they re not their . excusemoi
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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      how sterile of me, I meant they're not "their". excusemoi

      --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "gradyfinklemyer"
      <gradyfinklemyer@y...> wrote:
      > Ok, I'll make sure their a little more mucky, and not so sterile.
      > You know what they say about cleanliness though.
      >
      >
      > --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I have never heard anything from Matmos.
      > > Except their collaboration with Bjork (which
      > > I find very good).
      > > I have never been a great electronica fan neither.
      > >
      > > But please could you stop any sterile and childish
      > > discussion
      > > like "my favorite artist is not on cover
      > > it is such a shame" or "This crap artist is on the
      > > cover that's such a shame".
      > >
      > >
      > > --- gradyfinklemyer <gradyfinklemyer@y...> a
      > > écrit :
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they
      > > have just left the
      > > cover blank, instead?
      > > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet,
      > > then mix the
      > > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds.
      > > Maybe I'll
      > > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover
      > > next?
      > >
      > > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is
      > > wearing.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
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      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
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      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      > > Terms of Service.
      > >
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      > > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
    • jon attwood
      ok... so here s a poser... something the I, as an artist have often wondered... what makes someone a serious artist rather than a pop musician or rock
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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        ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
        wondered...

        what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
        star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
        seriously than others?

        in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
        doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
        i've often pondered...

        any thoughts / comments???

        jon.6

        (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
        'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)
      • aesloane
        Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to fuck with
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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          Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned
          Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to
          fuck with these distinctions. Everyone is begging for more obscurity on
          the cover. How about some incredibly problematic "pop" star photographed
          in that soul- baring stylee on the cover then given the Wire treatment
          inside the covers? Then you'd truly get naive fans buying the magazine,
          lining the coffers of our heroes, then flipping to their article and having
          their minds blown--being forced to think in a more consequential way about
          someone relentlessly portrayed in the mainstream media as a really
          simplistic caricature etc. And I'm sure the pop stars themselves are lining
          up for this treatment too, right?


          on 9/1/03 2:14 pm, jon attwood at jon@... wrote:

          > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
          > star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
          > seriously than others?
        • François Couture
          ... Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses. Seriousness is not
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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            > From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>

            > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
            > star'?

            Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
            perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
            'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find something
            like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or a
            60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
            stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the artist
            perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the contrary
            can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of Weird Al
            Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).

            > why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
            > seriously than others?

            Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.

            My two cents,

            Francois Couture
            Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
            Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

            Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
            Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
          • Damon Smith
            i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say for himself (not
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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              i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i
              would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say
              for himself (not much). however, there in lies the problem. most of
              these people put more into their outfits (or bunny suits) than their
              art. so they never have much to say about it and it gets tiresome. i
              mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up elaborate
              anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time learning basic
              guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i am too busy to
              listen it.
              period.
              damon

              On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François Couture wrote:

              >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
              >
              >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or
              >> 'rock
              >> star'?
              >
              > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
              > perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
              > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find
              > something
              > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or
              > a
              > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
              > stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the
              > artist
              > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the
              > contrary
              > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of
              > Weird Al
              > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
              >
              >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
              >> seriously than others?
              >
              > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.
              >
              > My two cents,
              >
              > Francois Couture
              > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
              > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
              >
              > Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
              > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ---------------------~-->
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              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              > ~->
              >
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              > the wire mailing list
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              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
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              >
              >
            • Olivier Borzeix
              Yup! I ve wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                Yup!

                I've wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some who are just selftaught or otherwise.

                I've especially noticed it in the beautiful world of electroacoustic music/composition.

                Olivier
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jon attwood
                To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:14 PM
                Subject: [thewire] Re: new issue


                ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
                wondered...

                what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
                star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                seriously than others?

                in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
                doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
                i've often pondered...

                any thoughts / comments???

                jon.6

                (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
                'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)


                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rioual Jc
                Michael Gira is not a clown. He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years. Listen to World of Skin . I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                  Michael Gira is not a clown.
                  He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years.
                  Listen to "World of Skin".

                  I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
                  but you can make art without technique too.

                  Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                  --- Damon Smith <damon@...> a
                  écrit :
                  ---------------------------------
                  i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists
                  personally, because i
                  would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what
                  he has to say
                  for himself (not much). however, there in lies the
                  problem. most of
                  these people put more into their outfits (or bunny
                  suits) than their
                  art. so they never have much to say about it and it
                  gets tiresome. i
                  mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up
                  elaborate
                  anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time
                  learning basic
                  guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i
                  am too busy to
                  listen it.
                  period.
                  damon

                  On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François
                  Couture wrote:

                  >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
                  >
                  >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a
                  'pop musician' or
                  >> 'rock
                  >> star'?
                  >
                  > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in
                  public, the way they
                  > perceive themselves and carry that perception over
                  to the masses.
                  > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music.
                  You can find
                  > something
                  > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles,
                  or Frank Zappa, or
                  > a
                  > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai
                  serious, brilliant or
                  > stupid, it matters only to your taste.
                  Hearing/reading about how the
                  > artist
                  > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth
                  -- or on the
                  > contrary
                  > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is
                  (why do I think of
                  > Weird Al
                  > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
                  >
                  >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get
                  taken more
                  >> seriously than others?
                  >
                  > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music
                  journalists.
                  >
                  > My two cents,
                  >
                  > Francois Couture
                  > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici),
                  translator, proofreader.
                  > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
                  >
                  > Personal webpage / Page personnelle:
                  http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                  > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at
                  http://www.allmusic.com
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ---------------------~-->
                  > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP,
                  Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                  > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or
                  more to the US &
                  > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                  >
                  http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/nnJolB/TM
                  >
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------

                  > ~->
                  >
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > the wire mailing list
                  > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


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                  _______________________________________________
                  the wire mailing list
                  post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  Terms of Service.

                  ___________________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
                  Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
                • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
                  ... Of course. Doesn t everyone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                    >Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                    Of course. Doesn't everyone?


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Daniel DiMaggio
                    Speaking of lame covers.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 28, 2003
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                      Speaking of lame covers..



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • chux
                      ... I really like the latest cover. Personally, I d like to see a guest designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes on the cover, just
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                        >Speaking of lame covers..
                        >

                        I really like the latest cover. Personally, I'd like to see a guest
                        designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes
                        on the cover, just abstract things please.

                        It would also be much better if it just said "THE WIRE" and nothing
                        else. Well perhaps the occasional blasphemy just to attract
                        attention... but not in the sense of having Matmos on the cover.

                        chx
                        --

                        "Quantify quality,
                        qualify quantity."
                        -chx

                        [Portions of this message have
                        been subliminally enhanced]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • gradyfinklemyer
                        I think they should start a bearded or mustachioed women of rock series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith. Mebbe last months cover
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                          I think they should start a "bearded or mustachioed women of rock"
                          series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith.
                          Mebbe last months cover could count too.

                          --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                          wrote:
                          > Speaking of lame covers..
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • soxepke
                          ... I m neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but that unraveling type font is getting old REAL fast.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 30, 2003
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                            --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                            wrote:
                            > Speaking of lame covers..
                            >
                            >
                            I'm neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but
                            that "unraveling" type font is getting old REAL fast.
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