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  • gradyfinklemyer
    I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn t they have just left the cover blank, instead? I m going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the some
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 30, 2003
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      I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
      cover blank, instead?
      I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
      some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
      throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?

      Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.
    • chux
      You ll be wanting to buy my Publ(i)c Air on a Toilet Seat burn-to-order CD-R then? This, the latest edition to Mr Willybottom s puerile oeuvre, ploughs the
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 30, 2003
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        You'll be wanting to buy my 'Publ(i)c 'Air on a Toilet Seat'
        burn-to-order CD-R then?

        "This, the latest edition to Mr Willybottom's puerile oeuvre, ploughs
        the same scatological furrow as his previous outings into imaginary
        music. Captured live onto MD, no ripple of buttock cheeks, rasping of
        the anus or rustling of trouser pants is left unexamined in these
        finely etched and minimally processed recordings. The album's
        'musical content' however is largely a formless (brown) mass; only a
        faint pulsing -ostensibly derived from ultrasound recordings of
        intestinal peristalsis- 'holds' the recording together, giving some
        sense of contextual unity to what is really just 'shit well cooked'."
        The Wire (list) DCW

        chx

        > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
        >cover blank, instead?
        > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
        >some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
        >throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
        >
        --

        "Quantify quality,
        qualify quantity."
        -chx

        [Portions of this message have
        been subliminally enhanced]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Damon Smith
        ... --it is a given to put a pop artist, generally cutesy and tricky, on the cover to sell issues. it is a nice plan (and maybe some kid s ears will be opened
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 30, 2003
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          On Saturday, August 30, 2003, at 12:05 PM, gradyfinklemyer wrote:

          > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
          > cover blank, instead?
          >

          --it is a given to put a pop artist, generally cutesy and tricky, on
          the cover to sell issues. it is a nice plan (and maybe some kid's ears
          will be opened up by matmo's liposuction samples and, for example,
          cecil taylor can get in there). what i finally realized about the wire
          is they don't care about pleasing any of us. it is kind of nice in some
          ways. in a just world peter kowald would have gotten more than passing
          death notice, günter christmann would be on the cover and ben watson
          would have his ears irrigated with a fIREHOSE. watson and even worse
          phil freeman still getting published, people like o'rourke and matmos
          getting the cover along with my country's recent despicable behavior is
          proof the world is unjust.

          damon smith
          http://www.balancepointacoustics.com

          recently released:

          bpa 006 "voice imitator"
          frank gratkowski/jerome bryerton/damon smith


          bpa 004 "desert sweets"
          biggi vinkeloe/mark weaver/damon smith

          bpa 003 "three october meetings"
          wolfgang fuchs/jerome bryerton/damon smith

          also available:
          bpa 001 "mirrors-broken, but no dust"
          peter kowald/damon smith

          bpa 002 "the sale of tickets for money was abolished"
          tony bevan/damon smith/scott r.looney

          coming soon:
          bpa 005 "sense of hearing"
          carol genetti/damon smith + fred lonberg-holm

          bpa 007 "zero plus"
          phillip wachsmann/martin blume/aurora josephson/jacob lindsay/damon
          smith

          bpa 008 "the happymakers"
          wolfgang fuchs/jacob lindsay/damon smith/serge baghdassarians/boris
          baltschun






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • PhilT
          ... i think the problem is having matmos on the front twice in recent times more than their value as artists. there s surely other people out there who deserve
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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            >> I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
            >> cover blank, instead?

            > it is a given to put a pop artist, generally cutesy and tricky, on
            > the cover to sell issues. it is a nice plan (and maybe some kid's ears
            > will be opened up by matmo's liposuction samples and, for example,
            > cecil taylor can get in there). what i finally realized about the wire
            > is they don't care about pleasing any of us. it is kind of nice in some
            > ways. in a just world peter kowald would have gotten more than passing
            > death notice, günter christmann would be on the cover and ben watson
            > would have his ears irrigated with a fIREHOSE. watson and even worse
            > phil freeman still getting published, people like o'rourke and matmos
            > getting the cover along with my country's recent despicable behavior is
            > proof the world is unjust.

            i think the problem is having matmos on the front twice in recent times more
            than their value as artists. there's surely other people out there who
            deserve a cover more. but do you really think that matmos is a 'pop' band?
            one that some herd of young people will rush out and buy the mag for. their
            faces are hardly well known. sure, they're discussed more than the bands
            that you like and think are of value but, still, they're not making pop
            music. to my ears their current album is a dull, failed experiment and the
            last one was only OK but i'll take them anyday over free improv. but that's
            just my taste (or lack of) in music.

            philT
          • chux
            You ll be wanting to buy my Pub(l)ic Air on a Toilet Seat burn-to-order CD-R then? This, the latest edition to Mr Willybottom s puerile oeuvre, ploughs the
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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              You'll be wanting to buy my 'Pub(l)ic 'Air on a Toilet Seat'
              burn-to-order CD-R then?

              "This, the latest edition to Mr Willybottom's puerile oeuvre, ploughs
              the same scatological furrow as his previous outings into imaginary
              music. Captured live onto MD, no ripple of buttock cheeks, rasping of
              the anus or rustling of trouser pants is left unexamined in these
              finely etched and minimally processed recordings. The album's
              'musical content' however is largely a formless (brown) mass; only a
              faint pulsing -ostensibly derived from ultrasound recordings of
              intestinal peristalsis- 'holds' the recording together, giving some
              sense of contextual unity to what is really just 'shit well cooked'."
              The Wire (list) DCW

              chx

              > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
              >cover blank, instead?
              > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
              >some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
              >throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
              >
              --

              "Quantify quality,
              qualify quantity."
              -chx

              [Portions of this message have
              been subliminally enhanced]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • kraig grady
              that s beautiful, don t you think! ... -- -Kraig Grady North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island http://www.anaphoria.com The Wandering Medicine Show KXLU
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                that's beautiful, don't you think!

                chux wrote:

                > You'll be wanting to buy my 'Pub(l)ic 'Air on a Toilet Seat'
                > burn-to-order CD-R then?
                >
                > "This, the latest edition to Mr Willybottom's puerile oeuvre, ploughs
                > the same scatological furrow as his previous outings into imaginary
                > music. Captured live onto MD, no ripple of buttock cheeks, rasping of
                > the anus or rustling of trouser pants is left unexamined in these
                > finely etched and minimally processed recordings. The album's
                > 'musical content' however is largely a formless (brown) mass; only a
                > faint pulsing -ostensibly derived from ultrasound recordings of
                > intestinal peristalsis- 'holds' the recording together, giving some
                > sense of contextual unity to what is really just 'shit well cooked'."
                > The Wire (list) DCW
                >
                > chx
                >

                -- -Kraig Grady
                North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
                http://www.anaphoria.com
                The Wandering Medicine Show
                KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST
              • dgromfin
                Funny you say that... I was thinking geez look at all the great artists inside... and out of all of them they put Matmos on the cover? I would think Mike
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                  Funny you say that... I was thinking "geez look at all the great
                  artists inside... and out of all of them they put Matmos on the
                  cover? I would think Mike Kelley deserves that honor over those
                  dudes".

                  --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "gradyfinklemyer"
                  <gradyfinklemyer@y...> wrote:
                  > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left
                  the
                  > cover blank, instead?
                  > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
                  > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
                  > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
                  >
                  > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.
                • gary goldfinch
                  ... Kind of apt too, what with Ron Geesin being featured this issue as well... ;-) .g ________________________________________________ www.garyleeg.f9.co.uk
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                    30/08/2003 20:05:23, "gradyfinklemyer" <gradyfinklemyer@...> wrote:

                    > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
                    >some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
                    >throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?

                    :)

                    Kind of apt too, what with Ron Geesin being featured this issue as well... ;-)

                    .g







                    ________________________________________________
                    www.garyleeg.f9.co.uk
                  • Rioual Jc
                    I have never heard anything from Matmos. Except their collaboration with Bjork (which I find very good). I have never been a great electronica fan neither. But
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                      I have never heard anything from Matmos.
                      Except their collaboration with Bjork (which
                      I find very good).
                      I have never been a great electronica fan neither.

                      But please could you stop any sterile and childish
                      discussion
                      like "my favorite artist is not on cover
                      it is such a shame" or "This crap artist is on the
                      cover that's such a shame".


                      --- gradyfinklemyer <gradyfinklemyer@...> a
                      écrit :
                      ---------------------------------
                      I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they
                      have just left the
                      cover blank, instead?
                      I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet,
                      then mix the
                      some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds.
                      Maybe I'll
                      throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover
                      next?

                      Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is
                      wearing.




                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

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                      post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/

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                    • jamello@aol.com
                      we want DERIK BAILEY!!! just kidding... In a message dated 8/31/2003 1:09:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gradyfinklemyer@yahoo.com writes: I see that Matmos is
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                        we want DERIK BAILEY!!!

                        just kidding...


                        In a message dated 8/31/2003 1:09:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        gradyfinklemyer@... writes:
                        I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left the
                        cover blank, instead?
                        I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
                        some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
                        throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?

                        Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • gradyfinklemyer
                        Hey, I m going to put my guitar on the floor and play it with my feet for 40 minutes, then send it in to Wire HQ as a promo of the new Derek Bailey album. And
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                          Hey, I'm going to put my guitar on the floor and play it with my feet
                          for 40 minutes, then send it in to Wire HQ as a promo of the new
                          Derek Bailey album. And I bet it gets a good review!

                          --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, jamello@a... wrote:
                          > we want DERIK BAILEY!!!
                          >
                          > just kidding...
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 8/31/2003 1:09:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          > gradyfinklemyer@y... writes:
                          > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they have just left
                          the
                          > cover blank, instead?
                          > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet, then mix the
                          > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds. Maybe I'll
                          > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover next?
                          >
                          > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is wearing.
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • gradyfinklemyer
                          Ok, I ll make sure their a little more mucky, and not so sterile. You know what they say about cleanliness though.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                            Ok, I'll make sure their a little more mucky, and not so sterile.
                            You know what they say about cleanliness though.


                            --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have never heard anything from Matmos.
                            > Except their collaboration with Bjork (which
                            > I find very good).
                            > I have never been a great electronica fan neither.
                            >
                            > But please could you stop any sterile and childish
                            > discussion
                            > like "my favorite artist is not on cover
                            > it is such a shame" or "This crap artist is on the
                            > cover that's such a shame".
                            >
                            >
                            > --- gradyfinklemyer <gradyfinklemyer@y...> a
                            > écrit :
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they
                            > have just left the
                            > cover blank, instead?
                            > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet,
                            > then mix the
                            > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds.
                            > Maybe I'll
                            > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover
                            > next?
                            >
                            > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is
                            > wearing.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                            >
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > the wire mailing list
                            > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                            > Terms of Service.
                            >
                            > ___________________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
                            > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
                          • gradyfinklemyer
                            how sterile of me, I meant they re not their . excusemoi
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 31, 2003
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                              how sterile of me, I meant they're not "their". excusemoi

                              --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "gradyfinklemyer"
                              <gradyfinklemyer@y...> wrote:
                              > Ok, I'll make sure their a little more mucky, and not so sterile.
                              > You know what they say about cleanliness though.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, Rioual Jc <jcrioual2@y...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I have never heard anything from Matmos.
                              > > Except their collaboration with Bjork (which
                              > > I find very good).
                              > > I have never been a great electronica fan neither.
                              > >
                              > > But please could you stop any sterile and childish
                              > > discussion
                              > > like "my favorite artist is not on cover
                              > > it is such a shame" or "This crap artist is on the
                              > > cover that's such a shame".
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- gradyfinklemyer <gradyfinklemyer@y...> a
                              > > écrit :
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > > I see that Matmos is on the cover. Couldn't they
                              > > have just left the
                              > > cover blank, instead?
                              > > I'm going to go stick a tape recorder in my toilet,
                              > > then mix the
                              > > some "electronica" in with the toilet concrete sounds.
                              > > Maybe I'll
                              > > throw in a phat beat or two. Can I be on the cover
                              > > next?
                              > >
                              > > Oh what wonderful new clothes the emperor is
                              > > wearing.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                              > >
                              > > _______________________________________________
                              > > the wire mailing list
                              > > post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                              > > Terms of Service.
                              > >
                              > > ___________________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
                              > > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com
                            • jon attwood
                              ok... so here s a poser... something the I, as an artist have often wondered... what makes someone a serious artist rather than a pop musician or rock
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
                                wondered...

                                what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
                                star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                                seriously than others?

                                in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
                                doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
                                i've often pondered...

                                any thoughts / comments???

                                jon.6

                                (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
                                'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)
                              • aesloane
                                Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to fuck with
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                  Can I use this moment to hark to the halcyon days when Michael goddamned
                                  Jackson was on the cover of Wire? That was the degree to which they used to
                                  fuck with these distinctions. Everyone is begging for more obscurity on
                                  the cover. How about some incredibly problematic "pop" star photographed
                                  in that soul- baring stylee on the cover then given the Wire treatment
                                  inside the covers? Then you'd truly get naive fans buying the magazine,
                                  lining the coffers of our heroes, then flipping to their article and having
                                  their minds blown--being forced to think in a more consequential way about
                                  someone relentlessly portrayed in the mainstream media as a really
                                  simplistic caricature etc. And I'm sure the pop stars themselves are lining
                                  up for this treatment too, right?


                                  on 9/1/03 2:14 pm, jon attwood at jon@... wrote:

                                  > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
                                  > star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                                  > seriously than others?
                                • François Couture
                                  ... Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses. Seriousness is not
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                    > From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>

                                    > what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
                                    > star'?

                                    Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
                                    perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
                                    'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find something
                                    like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or a
                                    60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
                                    stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the artist
                                    perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the contrary
                                    can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of Weird Al
                                    Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).

                                    > why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                                    > seriously than others?

                                    Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.

                                    My two cents,

                                    Francois Couture
                                    Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                    Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.

                                    Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                    Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                  • Damon Smith
                                    i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say for himself (not
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                      i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists personally, because i
                                      would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what he has to say
                                      for himself (not much). however, there in lies the problem. most of
                                      these people put more into their outfits (or bunny suits) than their
                                      art. so they never have much to say about it and it gets tiresome. i
                                      mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up elaborate
                                      anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time learning basic
                                      guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i am too busy to
                                      listen it.
                                      period.
                                      damon

                                      On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François Couture wrote:

                                      >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
                                      >
                                      >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or
                                      >> 'rock
                                      >> star'?
                                      >
                                      > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in public, the way they
                                      > perceive themselves and carry that perception over to the masses.
                                      > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music. You can find
                                      > something
                                      > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles, or Frank Zappa, or
                                      > a
                                      > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai serious, brilliant or
                                      > stupid, it matters only to your taste. Hearing/reading about how the
                                      > artist
                                      > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth -- or on the
                                      > contrary
                                      > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is (why do I think of
                                      > Weird Al
                                      > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
                                      >
                                      >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                                      >> seriously than others?
                                      >
                                      > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music journalists.
                                      >
                                      > My two cents,
                                      >
                                      > Francois Couture
                                      > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici), translator, proofreader.
                                      > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
                                      >
                                      > Personal webpage / Page personnelle: http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                      > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at http://www.allmusic.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                      >
                                    • Olivier Borzeix
                                      Yup! I ve wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 1, 2003
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                                        Yup!

                                        I've wondered about that either... and a common fact is that usually... artists comming from a more academic background are taken more seriously than some who are just selftaught or otherwise.

                                        I've especially noticed it in the beautiful world of electroacoustic music/composition.

                                        Olivier
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: jon attwood
                                        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:14 PM
                                        Subject: [thewire] Re: new issue


                                        ok... so here's a poser... something the I, as an 'artist' have often
                                        wondered...

                                        what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a 'pop musician' or 'rock
                                        star'? why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get taken more
                                        seriously than others?

                                        in case anyone wonders, there is no deep meaning behind the question and it
                                        doesn't bear any direct relation to the comments on matmos - just something
                                        i've often pondered...

                                        any thoughts / comments???

                                        jon.6

                                        (a.k.a. yellow6 - never mistakenly labelled as a serious musician, but not
                                        'pop' either as i'm not commercial enough!)


                                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                        ADVERTISEMENT




                                        _______________________________________________
                                        the wire mailing list
                                        post: thewire@yahoogroups.com
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thewire/

                                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Rioual Jc
                                        Michael Gira is not a clown. He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years. Listen to World of Skin . I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                          Michael Gira is not a clown.
                                          He made the most scaring music of the past 20 years.
                                          Listen to "World of Skin".

                                          I have nothing against technique (I love Fripp)
                                          but you can make art without technique too.

                                          Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                                          --- Damon Smith <damon@...> a
                                          écrit :
                                          ---------------------------------
                                          i agree. i do love reading about he pop artists
                                          personally, because i
                                          would never listen to matt herbert it is nice see what
                                          he has to say
                                          for himself (not much). however, there in lies the
                                          problem. most of
                                          these people put more into their outfits (or bunny
                                          suits) than their
                                          art. so they never have much to say about it and it
                                          gets tiresome. i
                                          mean that clown mikey gira can take the time to set up
                                          elaborate
                                          anonymous sex situations but not spend a little time
                                          learning basic
                                          guitar chords? if he is to busy to work on his art i
                                          am too busy to
                                          listen it.
                                          period.
                                          damon

                                          On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 02:34 PM, François
                                          Couture wrote:

                                          >> From: "jon attwood" <jon@...>
                                          >
                                          >> what makes someone a 'serious' artist rather than a
                                          'pop musician' or
                                          >> 'rock
                                          >> star'?
                                          >
                                          > Basically, composure. The way they act, talk in
                                          public, the way they
                                          > perceive themselves and carry that perception over
                                          to the masses.
                                          > 'Seriousness' is not a quality found in the music.
                                          You can find
                                          > something
                                          > like John Oswald's plunderphonics, or Tape Beatles,
                                          or Frank Zappa, or
                                          > a
                                          > 60-minute lo-fi drone, or the Fox TV show Banzai
                                          serious, brilliant or
                                          > stupid, it matters only to your taste.
                                          Hearing/reading about how the
                                          > artist
                                          > perceives his own work or explains it gives it depth
                                          -- or on the
                                          > contrary
                                          > can reveal how shallow and actually stupid it is
                                          (why do I think of
                                          > Weird Al
                                          > Yankovic right now? And I used to like the guy).
                                          >
                                          >> why do some seemingly similar sounding artists get
                                          taken more
                                          >> seriously than others?
                                          >
                                          > Marketing, image-builders, trend-mongers, music
                                          journalists.
                                          >
                                          > My two cents,
                                          >
                                          > Francois Couture
                                          > Writer, journalist (All-Music Guide, Ici),
                                          translator, proofreader.
                                          > Producer of Delire Actuel and Delire Musical, CFLX.
                                          >
                                          > Personal webpage / Page personnelle:
                                          http://membres.lycos.fr/fcouture
                                          > Visitez / Visit the All-Music Guide at
                                          http://www.allmusic.com
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • Steeples Paul (Mr PW)
                                          ... Of course. Doesn t everyone? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 2, 2003
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                                            >Do you really prefer Ezra Pound to Jack Kerouac ?

                                            Of course. Doesn't everyone?


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                                          • Daniel DiMaggio
                                            Speaking of lame covers.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Sep 28, 2003
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                                              Speaking of lame covers..



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                                            • chux
                                              ... I really like the latest cover. Personally, I d like to see a guest designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes on the cover, just
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                                                >Speaking of lame covers..
                                                >

                                                I really like the latest cover. Personally, I'd like to see a guest
                                                designer do the cover each month. No more recognisably human shapes
                                                on the cover, just abstract things please.

                                                It would also be much better if it just said "THE WIRE" and nothing
                                                else. Well perhaps the occasional blasphemy just to attract
                                                attention... but not in the sense of having Matmos on the cover.

                                                chx
                                                --

                                                "Quantify quality,
                                                qualify quantity."
                                                -chx

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                                              • gradyfinklemyer
                                                I think they should start a bearded or mustachioed women of rock series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith. Mebbe last months cover
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Sep 29, 2003
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                                                  I think they should start a "bearded or mustachioed women of rock"
                                                  series. They already had Le Tigre, now they can have Patti Smith.
                                                  Mebbe last months cover could count too.

                                                  --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > Speaking of lame covers..
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • soxepke
                                                  ... I m neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but that unraveling type font is getting old REAL fast.
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Sep 30, 2003
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                                                    --- In thewire@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel DiMaggio" <ddimaggi@p...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > Speaking of lame covers..
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    I'm neither crazy about nor completely against the cover, but
                                                    that "unraveling" type font is getting old REAL fast.
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