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RE: [thewire] laptop composition questions

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  • Olivier Borzeix
    I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I m pretty sure he was using a mac... though It was almost two years ago Olivier ... From: ... ...
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I'm pretty sure he was
      using a mac... though It was almost two years ago"

      Olivier

      -----Original Message-----
      From: ... ... [mailto:flashram000@...]
      Sent: 4 août 2003 20:36
      To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions


      i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but
      audiomulch, in
      my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a

      sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions
      and
      for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
      compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians
      use
      these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
      music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the
      affect
      of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but
      here's
      the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
      computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
      integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
      specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is
      that,
      as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
      guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he
      actually
      doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not

      that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer
      music,
      but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the
      glitch"
      and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would
      take a
      stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last

      sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there
      are
      plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in
      the
      "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i

      have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like
      a
      computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the
      computer
      is doing.

      sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
      computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
      "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

      love
      t
      =======================
      "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for

      cutting." - M.F.
      http://flashram.cjb.net


      >
      >Message: 4
      > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
      > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
      >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
      >
      > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
      > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
      > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
      > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
      > >any links or resources to how the likes of
      > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
      > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
      > >make this music?
      > >Cheers,
      > >barepierre
      >
      >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
      >think:
      >http://www.fennesz.com/
      >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with
      live
      >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren
      Ambarchi.
      >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL,
      etc.)
      >was
      >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
      >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more
      software
      >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com),
      which
      >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
      >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the
      learning
      >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
      >designing
      >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
      >almost
      >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for
      PC
      >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
      >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and
      JMAX
      >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there
      are
      >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need
      a
      >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware

      >that
      >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is
      a
      >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
      >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
      >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
      processing.
      >A
      >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live,
      by
      >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both
      of
      >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite
      a
      >bit
      >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably
      a
      >lot more info than you wanted....
      >
      >-----s
      >
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peter Wyeth
      your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like he s running a couple of sound files through some
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 6, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a
        mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like
        he's running a couple of sound files through some plug
        ins and fiddling with some of the parameters. In
        essence i guess this is no different to soundclash
        dj's running sevens through phasers and delays, though
        technically it may not be 'computer music'. Either way
        i'm stuck with how beautiful the stuff sounds.

        mmmmm...the emperors' new clothes?

        -bp

        i'm pretty sure oval uses a mac tho.
        --- "... ..." <flashram000@...> wrote:
        ---------------------------------
        i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that
        though. but audiomulch, in
        my opinion, is one of the better programs available
        for pc that is not a
        sequencer/tracker program that can be used for
        algorthmic compositions and
        for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's
        strength is in its
        compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big"
        computer musicians use
        these. but herein lies an interesting split within
        the laptop/computer
        music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying
        something to the affect
        of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer]
        patch." but here's
        the thing: when innovators of experimental music began
        to incorporate
        computers in making music the programming/process
        played a very very
        integral part in the overall composition. my problem
        with fennesz
        specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of
        "laptop music" - is that,
        as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't
        sound like pretty
        guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian
        fennesz's patch (he actually
        doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever
        plug-in he's using. not
        that programming ability should be the only
        prerequisite for computer music,
        but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so
        based in "the glitch"
        and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these
        musicians would take a
        stance where being pro-music means you are
        anti-programming. [that last
        sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made
        all week] there are
        plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so
        much invested in the
        "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.),
        and those people i
        have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and
        making it sound like a
        computer i think you should at least be able to
        understand what the computer
        is doing.

        sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician
        who incorporates
        computer into my own music. so i have a lot of
        issues with the
        "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

        love
        t
        =======================
        "This is because knowledge is not made for
        understanding; it is made for
        cutting." - M.F.
        http://flashram.cjb.net


        >
        >Message: 4
        > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
        > From: "Kristopher S. Handley"
        <thesubtlebody@...>
        >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
        >
        > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
        > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast
        night
        > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
        > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know
        of
        > >any links or resources to how the likes of
        > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only
        exponents
        > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
        > >make this music?
        > >Cheers,
        > >barepierre
        >
        >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put
        together by Touch, I
        >think:
        >http://www.fennesz.com/
        >Looks like there will be a subscription based
        membership service with live
        >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris
        Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
        >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff
        (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
        >was
        >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a
        guitar and various
        >electronics. The music from the first Touch album
        onward is more software
        >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP
        (http://www.cycling74.com), which
        >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like
        Fennesz and Jim
        >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even
        though the learning
        >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of
        flexibility in
        >designing
        >your own virtual tools for making music a processing
        sound....you can
        >almost
        >build things from the ground up. However, there are
        free programs for PC
        >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
        >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run
        on Mac OSX, and JMAX
        >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/).
        Of course, there are
        >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music,
        you don't even need a
        >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of
        freeware and shareware
        >that
        >is more than capable of helping you make interesting
        sounds. There is a
        >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called
        Audiomulch
        >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little
        program, really
        >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in
        digital signal processing.
        >A
        >lot of people like the
        sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
        >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native
        Instruments, both of
        >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those
        programs are quite a
        >bit
        >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch.
        Anyway, that is probably a
        >lot more info than you wanted....
        >
        >-----s
        >
        >_________________________________________________________________
        >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2
        months FREE*
        >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
        >
        >
        >
        >________________________________________________________________________
        >________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >

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