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Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions

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    i think oval uses a pc. i m not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
      i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in
      my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
      sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions and
      for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
      compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians use
      these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
      music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the affect
      of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but here's
      the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
      computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
      integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
      specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is that,
      as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
      guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he actually
      doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not
      that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer music,
      but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the glitch"
      and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would take a
      stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last
      sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there are
      plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in the
      "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i
      have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like a
      computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the computer
      is doing.

      sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
      computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
      "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

      love
      t
      =======================
      "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for
      cutting." - M.F.
      http://flashram.cjb.net


      >
      >Message: 4
      > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
      > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
      >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
      >
      > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
      > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
      > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
      > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
      > >any links or resources to how the likes of
      > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
      > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
      > >make this music?
      > >Cheers,
      > >barepierre
      >
      >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
      >think:
      >http://www.fennesz.com/
      >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with live
      >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
      >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
      >was
      >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
      >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more software
      >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com), which
      >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
      >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the learning
      >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
      >designing
      >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
      >almost
      >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for PC
      >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
      >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and JMAX
      >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there are
      >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need a
      >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware
      >that
      >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is a
      >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
      >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
      >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal processing.
      >A
      >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
      >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both of
      >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite a
      >bit
      >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably a
      >lot more info than you wanted....
      >
      >-----s
      >
      >_________________________________________________________________
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      >
      >
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      >
      >
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      >
      >

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    • Olivier Borzeix
      I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I m pretty sure he was using a mac... though It was almost two years ago Olivier ... From: ... ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
        I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I'm pretty sure he was
        using a mac... though It was almost two years ago"

        Olivier

        -----Original Message-----
        From: ... ... [mailto:flashram000@...]
        Sent: 4 août 2003 20:36
        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions


        i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but
        audiomulch, in
        my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a

        sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions
        and
        for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
        compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians
        use
        these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
        music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the
        affect
        of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but
        here's
        the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
        computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
        integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
        specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is
        that,
        as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
        guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he
        actually
        doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not

        that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer
        music,
        but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the
        glitch"
        and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would
        take a
        stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last

        sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there
        are
        plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in
        the
        "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i

        have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like
        a
        computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the
        computer
        is doing.

        sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
        computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
        "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

        love
        t
        =======================
        "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for

        cutting." - M.F.
        http://flashram.cjb.net


        >
        >Message: 4
        > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
        > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
        >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
        >
        > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
        > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
        > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
        > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
        > >any links or resources to how the likes of
        > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
        > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
        > >make this music?
        > >Cheers,
        > >barepierre
        >
        >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
        >think:
        >http://www.fennesz.com/
        >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with
        live
        >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren
        Ambarchi.
        >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL,
        etc.)
        >was
        >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
        >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more
        software
        >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com),
        which
        >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
        >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the
        learning
        >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
        >designing
        >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
        >almost
        >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for
        PC
        >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
        >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and
        JMAX
        >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there
        are
        >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need
        a
        >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware

        >that
        >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is
        a
        >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
        >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
        >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
        processing.
        >A
        >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live,
        by
        >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both
        of
        >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite
        a
        >bit
        >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably
        a
        >lot more info than you wanted....
        >
        >-----s
        >
        >_________________________________________________________________
        >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
        >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
        >
        >
        >
        >_______________________________________________________________________
        _
        >_______________________________________________________________________
        _
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Peter Wyeth
        your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like he s running a couple of sound files through some
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 6, 2003
          your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a
          mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like
          he's running a couple of sound files through some plug
          ins and fiddling with some of the parameters. In
          essence i guess this is no different to soundclash
          dj's running sevens through phasers and delays, though
          technically it may not be 'computer music'. Either way
          i'm stuck with how beautiful the stuff sounds.

          mmmmm...the emperors' new clothes?

          -bp

          i'm pretty sure oval uses a mac tho.
          --- "... ..." <flashram000@...> wrote:
          ---------------------------------
          i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that
          though. but audiomulch, in
          my opinion, is one of the better programs available
          for pc that is not a
          sequencer/tracker program that can be used for
          algorthmic compositions and
          for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's
          strength is in its
          compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big"
          computer musicians use
          these. but herein lies an interesting split within
          the laptop/computer
          music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying
          something to the affect
          of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer]
          patch." but here's
          the thing: when innovators of experimental music began
          to incorporate
          computers in making music the programming/process
          played a very very
          integral part in the overall composition. my problem
          with fennesz
          specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of
          "laptop music" - is that,
          as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't
          sound like pretty
          guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian
          fennesz's patch (he actually
          doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever
          plug-in he's using. not
          that programming ability should be the only
          prerequisite for computer music,
          but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so
          based in "the glitch"
          and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these
          musicians would take a
          stance where being pro-music means you are
          anti-programming. [that last
          sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made
          all week] there are
          plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so
          much invested in the
          "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.),
          and those people i
          have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and
          making it sound like a
          computer i think you should at least be able to
          understand what the computer
          is doing.

          sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician
          who incorporates
          computer into my own music. so i have a lot of
          issues with the
          "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

          love
          t
          =======================
          "This is because knowledge is not made for
          understanding; it is made for
          cutting." - M.F.
          http://flashram.cjb.net


          >
          >Message: 4
          > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
          > From: "Kristopher S. Handley"
          <thesubtlebody@...>
          >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
          >
          > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
          > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast
          night
          > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
          > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know
          of
          > >any links or resources to how the likes of
          > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only
          exponents
          > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
          > >make this music?
          > >Cheers,
          > >barepierre
          >
          >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put
          together by Touch, I
          >think:
          >http://www.fennesz.com/
          >Looks like there will be a subscription based
          membership service with live
          >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris
          Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
          >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff
          (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
          >was
          >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a
          guitar and various
          >electronics. The music from the first Touch album
          onward is more software
          >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP
          (http://www.cycling74.com), which
          >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like
          Fennesz and Jim
          >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even
          though the learning
          >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of
          flexibility in
          >designing
          >your own virtual tools for making music a processing
          sound....you can
          >almost
          >build things from the ground up. However, there are
          free programs for PC
          >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
          >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run
          on Mac OSX, and JMAX
          >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/).
          Of course, there are
          >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music,
          you don't even need a
          >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of
          freeware and shareware
          >that
          >is more than capable of helping you make interesting
          sounds. There is a
          >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called
          Audiomulch
          >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little
          program, really
          >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in
          digital signal processing.
          >A
          >lot of people like the
          sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
          >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native
          Instruments, both of
          >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those
          programs are quite a
          >bit
          >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch.
          Anyway, that is probably a
          >lot more info than you wanted....
          >
          >-----s
          >
          >_________________________________________________________________
          >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2
          months FREE*
          >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
          >
          >
          >
          >________________________________________________________________________
          >________________________________________________________________________
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
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