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Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions

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    i think oval uses a pc. i m not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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      i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in
      my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
      sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions and
      for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
      compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians use
      these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
      music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the affect
      of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but here's
      the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
      computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
      integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
      specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is that,
      as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
      guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he actually
      doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not
      that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer music,
      but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the glitch"
      and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would take a
      stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last
      sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there are
      plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in the
      "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i
      have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like a
      computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the computer
      is doing.

      sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
      computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
      "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

      love
      t
      =======================
      "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for
      cutting." - M.F.
      http://flashram.cjb.net


      >
      >Message: 4
      > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
      > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
      >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
      >
      > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
      > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
      > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
      > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
      > >any links or resources to how the likes of
      > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
      > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
      > >make this music?
      > >Cheers,
      > >barepierre
      >
      >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
      >think:
      >http://www.fennesz.com/
      >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with live
      >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
      >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
      >was
      >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
      >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more software
      >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com), which
      >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
      >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the learning
      >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
      >designing
      >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
      >almost
      >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for PC
      >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
      >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and JMAX
      >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there are
      >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need a
      >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware
      >that
      >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is a
      >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
      >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
      >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal processing.
      >A
      >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
      >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both of
      >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite a
      >bit
      >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably a
      >lot more info than you wanted....
      >
      >-----s
      >
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    • Andrew Cox
      ... And, if you feel like spending some more money, there s WaveWarp - similar to Mulch, but with many more components. The only thing it lacks is the ability
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
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        Monday, August 4, 2003, 5:19:37 PM, Kristopher wrote:

        > There is a Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
        > (http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program,
        > really powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
        > processing.

        And, if you feel like spending some more money, there's WaveWarp -
        similar to Mulch, but with many more components. The only thing it
        lacks is the ability to call DX or VST plug-ins, although it can be
        used as a DX plug-in itself.

        See http://www.soundslogical.com/

        There is loads of free, cheap, and otherwise software at the
        following:

        http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/

        and

        http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/win95/
      • Olivier Borzeix
        I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I m pretty sure he was using a mac... though It was almost two years ago Olivier ... From: ... ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
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          I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I'm pretty sure he was
          using a mac... though It was almost two years ago"

          Olivier

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ... ... [mailto:flashram000@...]
          Sent: 4 août 2003 20:36
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions


          i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but
          audiomulch, in
          my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a

          sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions
          and
          for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
          compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians
          use
          these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
          music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the
          affect
          of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but
          here's
          the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
          computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
          integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
          specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is
          that,
          as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
          guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he
          actually
          doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not

          that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer
          music,
          but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the
          glitch"
          and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would
          take a
          stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last

          sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there
          are
          plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in
          the
          "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i

          have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like
          a
          computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the
          computer
          is doing.

          sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
          computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
          "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

          love
          t
          =======================
          "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for

          cutting." - M.F.
          http://flashram.cjb.net


          >
          >Message: 4
          > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
          > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
          >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
          >
          > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
          > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
          > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
          > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
          > >any links or resources to how the likes of
          > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
          > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
          > >make this music?
          > >Cheers,
          > >barepierre
          >
          >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
          >think:
          >http://www.fennesz.com/
          >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with
          live
          >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren
          Ambarchi.
          >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL,
          etc.)
          >was
          >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
          >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more
          software
          >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com),
          which
          >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
          >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the
          learning
          >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
          >designing
          >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
          >almost
          >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for
          PC
          >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
          >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and
          JMAX
          >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there
          are
          >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need
          a
          >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware

          >that
          >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is
          a
          >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
          >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
          >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
          processing.
          >A
          >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live,
          by
          >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both
          of
          >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite
          a
          >bit
          >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably
          a
          >lot more info than you wanted....
          >
          >-----s
          >
          >_________________________________________________________________
          >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
          >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
          >
          >
          >
          >_______________________________________________________________________
          _
          >_______________________________________________________________________
          _
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Peter Wyeth
          your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like he s running a couple of sound files through some
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 6, 2003
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            your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a
            mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like
            he's running a couple of sound files through some plug
            ins and fiddling with some of the parameters. In
            essence i guess this is no different to soundclash
            dj's running sevens through phasers and delays, though
            technically it may not be 'computer music'. Either way
            i'm stuck with how beautiful the stuff sounds.

            mmmmm...the emperors' new clothes?

            -bp

            i'm pretty sure oval uses a mac tho.
            --- "... ..." <flashram000@...> wrote:
            ---------------------------------
            i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that
            though. but audiomulch, in
            my opinion, is one of the better programs available
            for pc that is not a
            sequencer/tracker program that can be used for
            algorthmic compositions and
            for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's
            strength is in its
            compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big"
            computer musicians use
            these. but herein lies an interesting split within
            the laptop/computer
            music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying
            something to the affect
            of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer]
            patch." but here's
            the thing: when innovators of experimental music began
            to incorporate
            computers in making music the programming/process
            played a very very
            integral part in the overall composition. my problem
            with fennesz
            specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of
            "laptop music" - is that,
            as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't
            sound like pretty
            guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian
            fennesz's patch (he actually
            doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever
            plug-in he's using. not
            that programming ability should be the only
            prerequisite for computer music,
            but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so
            based in "the glitch"
            and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these
            musicians would take a
            stance where being pro-music means you are
            anti-programming. [that last
            sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made
            all week] there are
            plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so
            much invested in the
            "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.),
            and those people i
            have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and
            making it sound like a
            computer i think you should at least be able to
            understand what the computer
            is doing.

            sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician
            who incorporates
            computer into my own music. so i have a lot of
            issues with the
            "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

            love
            t
            =======================
            "This is because knowledge is not made for
            understanding; it is made for
            cutting." - M.F.
            http://flashram.cjb.net


            >
            >Message: 4
            > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
            > From: "Kristopher S. Handley"
            <thesubtlebody@...>
            >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
            >
            > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
            > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast
            night
            > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
            > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know
            of
            > >any links or resources to how the likes of
            > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only
            exponents
            > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
            > >make this music?
            > >Cheers,
            > >barepierre
            >
            >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put
            together by Touch, I
            >think:
            >http://www.fennesz.com/
            >Looks like there will be a subscription based
            membership service with live
            >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris
            Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
            >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff
            (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
            >was
            >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a
            guitar and various
            >electronics. The music from the first Touch album
            onward is more software
            >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP
            (http://www.cycling74.com), which
            >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like
            Fennesz and Jim
            >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even
            though the learning
            >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of
            flexibility in
            >designing
            >your own virtual tools for making music a processing
            sound....you can
            >almost
            >build things from the ground up. However, there are
            free programs for PC
            >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
            >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run
            on Mac OSX, and JMAX
            >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/).
            Of course, there are
            >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music,
            you don't even need a
            >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of
            freeware and shareware
            >that
            >is more than capable of helping you make interesting
            sounds. There is a
            >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called
            Audiomulch
            >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little
            program, really
            >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in
            digital signal processing.
            >A
            >lot of people like the
            sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
            >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native
            Instruments, both of
            >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those
            programs are quite a
            >bit
            >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch.
            Anyway, that is probably a
            >lot more info than you wanted....
            >
            >-----s
            >
            >_________________________________________________________________
            >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2
            months FREE*
            >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
            >
            >
            >
            >________________________________________________________________________
            >________________________________________________________________________
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
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