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laptop composition questions

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  • Peter Wyeth
    Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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      Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
      on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
      these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
      any links or resources to how the likes of
      fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
      of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
      make this music?
      Cheers,
      barepierre

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    • Kristopher S. Handley
      ... There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I think: http://www.fennesz.com/ Looks like there will be a subscription based
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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        >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
        >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
        >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
        >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
        >any links or resources to how the likes of
        >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
        >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
        >make this music?
        >Cheers,
        >barepierre

        There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
        think:
        http://www.fennesz.com/
        Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with live
        recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
        As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.) was
        made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
        electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more software
        based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com), which
        is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
        O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the learning
        curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in designing
        your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can almost
        build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for PC
        which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
        (http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and JMAX
        (http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there are
        so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need a
        computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware that
        is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is a
        Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
        (http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
        powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal processing. A
        lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
        Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both of
        which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite a bit
        more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably a
        lot more info than you wanted....

        -----s

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      • ... ...
        i think oval uses a pc. i m not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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          i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but audiomulch, in
          my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a
          sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions and
          for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
          compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians use
          these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
          music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the affect
          of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but here's
          the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
          computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
          integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
          specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is that,
          as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
          guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he actually
          doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not
          that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer music,
          but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the glitch"
          and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would take a
          stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last
          sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there are
          plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in the
          "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i
          have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like a
          computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the computer
          is doing.

          sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
          computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
          "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

          love
          t
          =======================
          "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for
          cutting." - M.F.
          http://flashram.cjb.net


          >
          >Message: 4
          > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
          > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
          >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
          >
          > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
          > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
          > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
          > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
          > >any links or resources to how the likes of
          > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
          > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
          > >make this music?
          > >Cheers,
          > >barepierre
          >
          >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
          >think:
          >http://www.fennesz.com/
          >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with live
          >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
          >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
          >was
          >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
          >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more software
          >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com), which
          >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
          >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the learning
          >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
          >designing
          >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
          >almost
          >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for PC
          >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
          >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and JMAX
          >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there are
          >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need a
          >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware
          >that
          >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is a
          >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
          >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
          >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal processing.
          >A
          >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
          >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both of
          >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite a
          >bit
          >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably a
          >lot more info than you wanted....
          >
          >-----s
          >
          >_________________________________________________________________
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          >
          >
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          >________________________________________________________________________
          >
          >
          >
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        • Andrew Cox
          ... And, if you feel like spending some more money, there s WaveWarp - similar to Mulch, but with many more components. The only thing it lacks is the ability
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
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            Monday, August 4, 2003, 5:19:37 PM, Kristopher wrote:

            > There is a Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
            > (http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program,
            > really powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
            > processing.

            And, if you feel like spending some more money, there's WaveWarp -
            similar to Mulch, but with many more components. The only thing it
            lacks is the ability to call DX or VST plug-ins, although it can be
            used as a DX plug-in itself.

            See http://www.soundslogical.com/

            There is loads of free, cheap, and otherwise software at the
            following:

            http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/

            and

            http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/win95/
          • Olivier Borzeix
            I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I m pretty sure he was using a mac... though It was almost two years ago Olivier ... From: ... ...
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 5, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              I saw him live and, if my memory serves me well, I'm pretty sure he was
              using a mac... though It was almost two years ago"

              Olivier

              -----Original Message-----
              From: ... ... [mailto:flashram000@...]
              Sent: 4 août 2003 20:36
              To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [thewire] laptop composition questions


              i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that though. but
              audiomulch, in
              my opinion, is one of the better programs available for pc that is not a

              sequencer/tracker program that can be used for algorthmic compositions
              and
              for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's strength is in its
              compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big" computer musicians
              use
              these. but herein lies an interesting split within the laptop/computer
              music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying something to the
              affect
              of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer] patch." but
              here's
              the thing: when innovators of experimental music began to incorporate
              computers in making music the programming/process played a very very
              integral part in the overall composition. my problem with fennesz
              specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of "laptop music" - is
              that,
              as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't sound like pretty
              guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian fennesz's patch (he
              actually
              doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever plug-in he's using. not

              that programming ability should be the only prerequisite for computer
              music,
              but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so based in "the
              glitch"
              and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these musicians would
              take a
              stance where being pro-music means you are anti-programming. [that last

              sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made all week] there
              are
              plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so much invested in
              the
              "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.), and those people i

              have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and making it sound like
              a
              computer i think you should at least be able to understand what the
              computer
              is doing.

              sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician who incorporates
              computer into my own music. so i have a lot of issues with the
              "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

              love
              t
              =======================
              "This is because knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for

              cutting." - M.F.
              http://flashram.cjb.net


              >
              >Message: 4
              > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
              > From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@...>
              >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
              >
              > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
              > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast night
              > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
              > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know of
              > >any links or resources to how the likes of
              > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only exponents
              > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
              > >make this music?
              > >Cheers,
              > >barepierre
              >
              >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put together by Touch, I
              >think:
              >http://www.fennesz.com/
              >Looks like there will be a subscription based membership service with
              live
              >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris Watson and Oren
              Ambarchi.
              >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff (HOTEL PARAL.LEL,
              etc.)
              >was
              >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a guitar and various
              >electronics. The music from the first Touch album onward is more
              software
              >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP (http://www.cycling74.com),
              which
              >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like Fennesz and Jim
              >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even though the
              learning
              >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of flexibility in
              >designing
              >your own virtual tools for making music a processing sound....you can
              >almost
              >build things from the ground up. However, there are free programs for
              PC
              >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
              >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run on Mac OSX, and
              JMAX
              >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/). Of course, there
              are
              >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music, you don't even need
              a
              >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of freeware and shareware

              >that
              >is more than capable of helping you make interesting sounds. There is
              a
              >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called Audiomulch
              >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little program, really
              >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in digital signal
              processing.
              >A
              >lot of people like the sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live,
              by
              >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native Instruments, both
              of
              >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those programs are quite
              a
              >bit
              >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch. Anyway, that is probably
              a
              >lot more info than you wanted....
              >
              >-----s
              >
              >_________________________________________________________________
              >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
              >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
              >
              >
              >
              >_______________________________________________________________________
              _
              >_______________________________________________________________________
              _
              >
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Peter Wyeth
              your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like he s running a couple of sound files through some
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 6, 2003
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                your point on fennesz is a interesting one. I use a
                mac for stuff and to me his live work does sound like
                he's running a couple of sound files through some plug
                ins and fiddling with some of the parameters. In
                essence i guess this is no different to soundclash
                dj's running sevens through phasers and delays, though
                technically it may not be 'computer music'. Either way
                i'm stuck with how beautiful the stuff sounds.

                mmmmm...the emperors' new clothes?

                -bp

                i'm pretty sure oval uses a mac tho.
                --- "... ..." <flashram000@...> wrote:
                ---------------------------------
                i think oval uses a pc. i'm not sure about that
                though. but audiomulch, in
                my opinion, is one of the better programs available
                for pc that is not a
                sequencer/tracker program that can be used for
                algorthmic compositions and
                for playing more abstracted music. audiomulch's
                strength is in its
                compatability with free VST plugins. a lot of "big"
                computer musicians use
                these. but herein lies an interesting split within
                the laptop/computer
                music "scene". fennesz has been quoted as saying
                something to the affect
                of, "people want to hear yr music. not yr [computer]
                patch." but here's
                the thing: when innovators of experimental music began
                to incorporate
                computers in making music the programming/process
                played a very very
                integral part in the overall composition. my problem
                with fennesz
                specifically - but a general gripe with a lot of
                "laptop music" - is that,
                as a musician who uses a computer, his music doesn't
                sound like pretty
                guitar glitchery. instead of hearing christian
                fennesz's patch (he actually
                doesn't program any of his own) i hear whatever
                plug-in he's using. not
                that programming ability should be the only
                prerequisite for computer music,
                but for an aesthetic approach towards music that is so
                based in "the glitch"
                and the "post-digital" it is strange to me that these
                musicians would take a
                stance where being pro-music means you are
                anti-programming. [that last
                sentence was probably the biggest assumption i've made
                all week] there are
                plenty of musicians who use laptops that don't have so
                much invested in the
                "laptop" aesthetic (merzbow, aube, john wiese, etc.),
                and those people i
                have no problem with. if yr playing a computer and
                making it sound like a
                computer i think you should at least be able to
                understand what the computer
                is doing.

                sorry for the long-winded response. i'm a musician
                who incorporates
                computer into my own music. so i have a lot of
                issues with the
                "post-digital/glitch" aesthetic.

                love
                t
                =======================
                "This is because knowledge is not made for
                understanding; it is made for
                cutting." - M.F.
                http://flashram.cjb.net


                >
                >Message: 4
                > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:19:37 -0500
                > From: "Kristopher S. Handley"
                <thesubtlebody@...>
                >Subject: Re: laptop composition questions
                >
                > >From: Peter Wyeth <barepierre@...>
                > >Heard a track from the new fennesz live cdlast
                night
                > >on radio 3 - it rocks. But my question is how are
                > >these tracks put together? does anyone anyone know
                of
                > >any links or resources to how the likes of
                > >fennesz,oval, o'rouke (admmitedly the only
                exponents
                > >of 'laptop composition' i'm familiar with) actually
                > >make this music?
                > >Cheers,
                > >barepierre
                >
                >There is a relatively new website for Fennesz, put
                together by Touch, I
                >think:
                >http://www.fennesz.com/
                >Looks like there will be a subscription based
                membership service with live
                >recordings, etc. There are also sites for Chris
                Watson and Oren Ambarchi.
                >As for how he makes his music, the earlier stuff
                (HOTEL PARAL.LEL, etc.)
                >was
                >made with a sampler with like 4 megs of memory, a
                guitar and various
                >electronics. The music from the first Touch album
                onward is more software
                >based. He might use the program MAX-MSP
                (http://www.cycling74.com), which
                >is for the moment a Mac-only application; people like
                Fennesz and Jim
                >O'Rourke and others have used MAX a lot because even
                though the learning
                >curve is a bit steep, it allows you a great deal of
                flexibility in
                >designing
                >your own virtual tools for making music a processing
                sound....you can
                >almost
                >build things from the ground up. However, there are
                free programs for PC
                >which are quite similar, including Pure-Data aka PD
                >(http://www.pure-data.org/about), which will also run
                on Mac OSX, and JMAX
                >(http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/guides/package/jmax/).
                Of course, there are
                >so many ways to make these kinds of textural music,
                you don't even need a
                >computer, but if you have one, there is a lot of
                freeware and shareware
                >that
                >is more than capable of helping you make interesting
                sounds. There is a
                >Windows-only piece of cheap shareware called
                Audiomulch
                >(http://www.audiomulch.com/), which is a great little
                program, really
                >powerful and intuitive, esp. for a beginner in
                digital signal processing.
                >A
                >lot of people like the
                sequencer/looper/multitracker/dsp program Live, by
                >Ableton, and the synthesis program Reaktor by Native
                Instruments, both of
                >which work in Windows and Mac OS, but both of those
                programs are quite a
                >bit
                >more expensive than programs like Audiomulch.
                Anyway, that is probably a
                >lot more info than you wanted....
                >
                >-----s
                >
                >_________________________________________________________________
                >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2
                months FREE*
                >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
                >
                >
                >
                >________________________________________________________________________
                >________________________________________________________________________
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
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