Re: [thewire] Re: //Copyright monopoly and creative sounds
- Yes Lang!
Obviously themes where borrowed when referred to, but the implication was that it it
occured in all piece as a common practice. notice how this use of others increase with the
later in time. Mahler you might want to add as one who used it not so much as source
material but to "represent' the original. your first example is interesting in that it
turn out not to be written by Haydn at all. here we had the opposite of copywrights in the
sense that compositions were attributed to composers who did not write them as a way of
Lang Thompson wrote:
> Well, check out the numerous "variations on a theme by" (such as Brahms-- -Kraig Grady
> variations on Haydn & Paganini, Vaughn Williams on Tallis, etc), the final
> movement of Brahms 1, quite a bit of Shostakovich (esp the 15th symphony),
> Mozart's Haydn quartets (and supposedly references to other now forgotten
> operas in some of his own), Stravinsky's Pulcinella (using Pergolesi or
> material atributed to him), lots of Handel pieces (though I'm not familiar
> enough to recognize them), Vivaldi apparently included entire arias from
> other composers in some of his operas (which goes a bit beyond "quotation")
> and of course countless uses of folk songs (Bartok, Ives, Tchaikovsky,
> Copland, etc etc).
> >for example?
> > > classical composers to include "quotations" by other composers.
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- Olivier wrote to wire:
OB> Forgot to mention Bach's quoting of Vivaldi in some of his concertos...
Or wholesale transcription, in the case of the Concerto for 4 Klavier
(based on a 4-violin concerto of Vivaldi's).
There's a piece by Stockhausen I'd be appalled if I had to actually cite
by name ;-). Mind you, Beethoven had fun with anthems in Wellington's
Victory 1.5 century earlier ... I'm sure there are other uses of
patriotic themes (oh wait, Ives, duh).
The most startling intrusion I can think of -- it works just a sample,
in fact most like a "cut-in" record -- is the quotation from a Beethoven
sonata (I think it's from the prelude to the 4th movement of the
Hammerklavier, but unfortunately Ch-Cr is still in storage so I can't
check) in George Crumb's Makrokosmos v.2, which floats in like the Ghost
There's a metric ton of quotation in George Rochberg's post-60s work as
Jim Flannery newgrange@...
"There are three things required for happiness: good health,
selfishness, and stupidity, and without stupidity the others
are useless." -- Gustave Flaubert
np: F/i, _Why Not Now? ... Alan!_
nr: Claude Lévi-Strauss, _Tristes Tropiques_