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Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop

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  • ninplant@xs4all.nl
    ... i recommend black sifichi - Tick on Noise Museum - The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products on Hydrogen Dukebox Sensational heavyweighter on
    Message 1 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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      >At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
      > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
      > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
      > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
      > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
      > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
      > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
      > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
      > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
      > >be greatly appreciated.
      > >
      > >
      > > manuel cabrera

      i recommend
      black sifichi
      - "Tick" on Noise Museum
      - "The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products" on Hydrogen Dukebox

      Sensational "heavyweighter" on Word Sound
      kathy acker with hal willner "redoing childhood" on kill rock stars
      edwin torres "holy Kid" on kill rock stars
      roberto valenza "musical secretions" on buddhaville
      brion gysin "self portrait jumping" on made to measure

      there are many more i could recommend but these are off the top of
      what's left of my head.

      bart / wreck this mess / am*dam
    • Dr Joel Blaiberg
      Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be re-released in the UK
      Message 2 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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        Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose
        One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be
        re-released in the UK on Leaf) and the Rope Ladder 12 album on Mush.
        Also, for french speakers, I've found the latest TTC - Ceci N'Est Pas Un
        Disque album to be quite intriguing...

        Joel

        P.S. For a copy of my latest CDs for sale list drop me an e-mail....

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Manuel Cabrera [mailto:semiote@...]
        Sent: 05 May 2002 23:32
        To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


        Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
        interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
        and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began
        with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other
        things like Miranda July (whom I
        now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word,
        not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good
        spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


        manuel cabrera

        Fractured Music wrote:

        > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush
        records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website
        as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as
        well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed
        very dark dissonant noise.
        >
        > -Varjak
      • stevolende
        ... interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, I was reminded of Lee ranaldo s solo stuff earlier this week I ve
        Message 3 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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          --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
          > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
          interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
          and sound art,



          I was reminded of Lee ranaldo's solo stuff earlier this week
          I've heard some good beatniky readings over guitar noise from him.

          what reminded me of him was the tracks on the 2 versions of the Dylan
          uNcut tribute cds
          one has the version of sitting on the Fence by Thurston, Kim and Epic
          which I think was specially done for a Dylan compi 15 or so years
          back (this disc's blurb says its exclusive to this disc)

          the other disc has a sopolo Lee track -i'm not sure what only that
          its a dylan cover.

          But I do recall a ccd I had way back with Lee doing spoken word about
          recording with the Jajouka in their Morroccan village.
          Unfortunately thats now long gone.
          as is the other industrial compi I had with his solo stuff on.
          imagine 'In The Kingdsom #41'(or whatever the number) from Sonic
          youth's Evol without the rest of Sonic Youth
          Stevo
          Np Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane
        • pm.carey@utoronto.ca
          ... Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose et al soooo much. They have moments, but ... -Patrick NP: Edgard Varèse - Complete
          Message 4 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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            * "M. Pathos" <mpathos@...>:
            >If you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

            Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
            et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


            -Patrick


            NP: Edgard Varèse - "Complete Works"
          • gradyfinklemyer
            What happened to your big dramatic exit? ... am ... has ... would
            Message 5 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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              What happened to your big dramatic exit?

              --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
              > At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
              > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I
              am
              > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
              > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
              > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which
              has
              > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
              > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
              > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
              > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words
              would
              > >be greatly appreciated.
              > >
              > >
              > > manuel cabrera
              >
              > Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
              > Williams, et al.--
              > --
              >
              >
              > Jason Witherspoon
              > ICQ #62837760
              >
              > ---------
              > --- ---
              > ----O----
              > ---------
              > --- ---
              > ---------
            • gradyfinklemyer
              Yeah, most of it ain t tonal, cause they ain t schooled in nuthin . If youse guys aks me, it s all atonal, and none of it weren t never no good. Thas juss my
              Message 6 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                Yeah, most of it ain't tonal, cause they ain't schooled in nuthin'.
                If youse guys aks me, it's all atonal, and none of it weren't never
                no good. Thas juss my 'pinion, howevah!

                --- In thewire@y..., "M. Pathos" <mpathos@h...> wrote:
                > atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no
                conscious
                > reference to any scale or tonic.
                > (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary --
                Second
                > Edition. Clarendon Press: London)
                >
                > As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                > traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures,
                most
                > hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale
                or
                > tonic".
                >
                > But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially
                fucked-up.
                > If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood
                of the
                > bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood").
                If you
                > want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux
                label. If
                > you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
              • Jason Witherspoon
                ... I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I opened my mouth. Bugged that I m back, Ralph? -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
                Message 7 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                  At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                  > What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                  I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I
                  opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                  --


                  Jason Witherspoon
                  ICQ #62837760

                  ---------
                  --- ---
                  ----O----
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                  ---------
                • reddye6
                  ... Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great Beckett release
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                    >In general, I am interested in things that
                    >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                    >and sound art

                    Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio
                    drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                    Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark"). Then
                    there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                    "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek Jarman's
                    films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.

                    Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                    head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind of
                    like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                    Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan For
                    This World."

                    A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s is
                    at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                    Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                    Mike
                  • gradyfinklemyer
                    Yo G, I couldn t care less whether you stay or go. It s been kinda lackin on the hip hop tip since you left. It s been kinda lackin on the humour tip since
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                      Yo G, I couldn't care less whether you stay or go. It's been kinda
                      lackin' on the hip hop tip since you left. It's been kinda lackin' on
                      the humour tip since ralph left.

                      --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                      > At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                      > > What happened to your big dramatic exit?
                      >
                      > I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute
                      I
                      > opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      > Jason Witherspoon
                      > ICQ #62837760
                      >
                      > ---------
                      > --- ---
                      > ----O----
                      > ---------
                      > --- ---
                      > ---------
                    • gradyfinklemyer
                      I recommend Pierre Henry s Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too bad I don t speak frog.
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                        I recommend Pierre Henry's Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin'
                        in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too
                        bad I don't speak frog. Oh well, it adds nice atmosfear to the
                        sonical proceedings. Also worth a shout out is Pierre Henry's
                        Apocalypse de Jean. And if any of you gangstas is lookin' to get the
                        box sets that have come out, Dusty Groove gots em' for about $35!
                        Whee!

                        --- In thewire@y..., "reddye6" <reddye6@a...> wrote:
                        > >In general, I am interested in things that
                        > >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                        > >and sound art
                        >
                        > Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary
                        radio
                        > drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                        > Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark").
                        Then
                        > there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                        > "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek
                        Jarman's
                        > films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.
                        >
                        > Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                        > head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind
                        of
                        > like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                        > Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan
                        For
                        > This World."
                        >
                        > A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s
                        is
                        > at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                        > Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                        > Mike
                      • M. Pathos
                        I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn t enough; while
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                          I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about
                          rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn't
                          enough; while concentrating on spitting the most preposterous permutations
                          of polysyllables, most rappers forget the need to actually have something
                          worth saying. "Rap" could be a wonderful form for telling stories.
                          Continuously hearing about how rich, or broke, the rapper is, is not enough.
                          >
                          >

                          Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                          et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                          -Patrick


                          NP: Edgard Var�se - "Complete Works"






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                        • M. Pathos
                          Thanks to whoever posted the address. This is a fantastic site for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really rap , though. . . .
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                            Thanks to whoever posted the <www.ubu.com> address. This is a fantastic site
                            for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really "rap", though. . . .

                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                          • manny@telerama.com
                            Those who adore Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes. She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday. I saw July s
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                              Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                              She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                              I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                              What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                              Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                              not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                              Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                              on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                            • Manuel Cabrera
                              i ve never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and seen one of her short films. this isn t her work, but the short film collection I
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                i've never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and
                                seen one of her short films. this isn't her work, but the short film
                                collection "I Saw Bones," with works culled from the Big miss Moviola project,
                                has some gems in it. I'm not very familiar with Laurie Anderson's work
                                (except for a couple of tracks I've heard from her), but I'll be sure to check
                                it out. In any case, I don't worship her: I simply enjoy what I've heard and
                                seen of her work.

                                mandel

                                manny@... wrote:

                                > Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                > She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                > I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                > What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                > Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                > not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                > Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                > on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                >
                                >
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