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Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop

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  • M. Pathos
    atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious reference to any scale or tonic. (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford
    Message 1 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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      atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious
      reference to any scale or tonic.
      (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary -- Second
      Edition. Clarendon Press: London)

      As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
      traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures, most
      hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale or
      tonic".

      But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially fucked-up.
      If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood of the
      bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood"). If you
      want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux label. If
      you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

      _________________________________________________________________
      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
    • ninplant@xs4all.nl
      ... i recommend black sifichi - Tick on Noise Museum - The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products on Hydrogen Dukebox Sensational heavyweighter on
      Message 2 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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        >At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
        > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
        > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
        > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
        > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
        > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
        > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
        > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
        > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
        > >be greatly appreciated.
        > >
        > >
        > > manuel cabrera

        i recommend
        black sifichi
        - "Tick" on Noise Museum
        - "The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products" on Hydrogen Dukebox

        Sensational "heavyweighter" on Word Sound
        kathy acker with hal willner "redoing childhood" on kill rock stars
        edwin torres "holy Kid" on kill rock stars
        roberto valenza "musical secretions" on buddhaville
        brion gysin "self portrait jumping" on made to measure

        there are many more i could recommend but these are off the top of
        what's left of my head.

        bart / wreck this mess / am*dam
      • Dr Joel Blaiberg
        Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be re-released in the UK
        Message 3 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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          Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose
          One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be
          re-released in the UK on Leaf) and the Rope Ladder 12 album on Mush.
          Also, for french speakers, I've found the latest TTC - Ceci N'Est Pas Un
          Disque album to be quite intriguing...

          Joel

          P.S. For a copy of my latest CDs for sale list drop me an e-mail....

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Manuel Cabrera [mailto:semiote@...]
          Sent: 05 May 2002 23:32
          To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


          Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
          interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
          and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began
          with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other
          things like Miranda July (whom I
          now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word,
          not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good
          spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


          manuel cabrera

          Fractured Music wrote:

          > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush
          records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website
          as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as
          well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed
          very dark dissonant noise.
          >
          > -Varjak
        • stevolende
          ... interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, I was reminded of Lee ranaldo s solo stuff earlier this week I ve
          Message 4 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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            --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
            > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
            interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
            and sound art,



            I was reminded of Lee ranaldo's solo stuff earlier this week
            I've heard some good beatniky readings over guitar noise from him.

            what reminded me of him was the tracks on the 2 versions of the Dylan
            uNcut tribute cds
            one has the version of sitting on the Fence by Thurston, Kim and Epic
            which I think was specially done for a Dylan compi 15 or so years
            back (this disc's blurb says its exclusive to this disc)

            the other disc has a sopolo Lee track -i'm not sure what only that
            its a dylan cover.

            But I do recall a ccd I had way back with Lee doing spoken word about
            recording with the Jajouka in their Morroccan village.
            Unfortunately thats now long gone.
            as is the other industrial compi I had with his solo stuff on.
            imagine 'In The Kingdsom #41'(or whatever the number) from Sonic
            youth's Evol without the rest of Sonic Youth
            Stevo
            Np Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane
          • pm.carey@utoronto.ca
            ... Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose et al soooo much. They have moments, but ... -Patrick NP: Edgard Varèse - Complete
            Message 5 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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              * "M. Pathos" <mpathos@...>:
              >If you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

              Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
              et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


              -Patrick


              NP: Edgard Varèse - "Complete Works"
            • gradyfinklemyer
              What happened to your big dramatic exit? ... am ... has ... would
              Message 6 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                > At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
                > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I
                am
                > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
                > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
                > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which
                has
                > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
                > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
                > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
                > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words
                would
                > >be greatly appreciated.
                > >
                > >
                > > manuel cabrera
                >
                > Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
                > Williams, et al.--
                > --
                >
                >
                > Jason Witherspoon
                > ICQ #62837760
                >
                > ---------
                > --- ---
                > ----O----
                > ---------
                > --- ---
                > ---------
              • gradyfinklemyer
                Yeah, most of it ain t tonal, cause they ain t schooled in nuthin . If youse guys aks me, it s all atonal, and none of it weren t never no good. Thas juss my
                Message 7 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                  Yeah, most of it ain't tonal, cause they ain't schooled in nuthin'.
                  If youse guys aks me, it's all atonal, and none of it weren't never
                  no good. Thas juss my 'pinion, howevah!

                  --- In thewire@y..., "M. Pathos" <mpathos@h...> wrote:
                  > atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no
                  conscious
                  > reference to any scale or tonic.
                  > (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary --
                  Second
                  > Edition. Clarendon Press: London)
                  >
                  > As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                  > traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures,
                  most
                  > hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale
                  or
                  > tonic".
                  >
                  > But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially
                  fucked-up.
                  > If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood
                  of the
                  > bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood").
                  If you
                  > want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux
                  label. If
                  > you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                  http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
                • Jason Witherspoon
                  ... I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I opened my mouth. Bugged that I m back, Ralph? -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                    At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                    > What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                    I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I
                    opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                    --


                    Jason Witherspoon
                    ICQ #62837760

                    ---------
                    --- ---
                    ----O----
                    ---------
                    --- ---
                    ---------
                  • reddye6
                    ... Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great Beckett release
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                      >In general, I am interested in things that
                      >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                      >and sound art

                      Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio
                      drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                      Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark"). Then
                      there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                      "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek Jarman's
                      films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.

                      Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                      head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind of
                      like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                      Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan For
                      This World."

                      A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s is
                      at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                      Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                      Mike
                    • gradyfinklemyer
                      Yo G, I couldn t care less whether you stay or go. It s been kinda lackin on the hip hop tip since you left. It s been kinda lackin on the humour tip since
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                        Yo G, I couldn't care less whether you stay or go. It's been kinda
                        lackin' on the hip hop tip since you left. It's been kinda lackin' on
                        the humour tip since ralph left.

                        --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                        > At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                        > > What happened to your big dramatic exit?
                        >
                        > I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute
                        I
                        > opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                        > --
                        >
                        >
                        > Jason Witherspoon
                        > ICQ #62837760
                        >
                        > ---------
                        > --- ---
                        > ----O----
                        > ---------
                        > --- ---
                        > ---------
                      • gradyfinklemyer
                        I recommend Pierre Henry s Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too bad I don t speak frog.
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                          I recommend Pierre Henry's Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin'
                          in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too
                          bad I don't speak frog. Oh well, it adds nice atmosfear to the
                          sonical proceedings. Also worth a shout out is Pierre Henry's
                          Apocalypse de Jean. And if any of you gangstas is lookin' to get the
                          box sets that have come out, Dusty Groove gots em' for about $35!
                          Whee!

                          --- In thewire@y..., "reddye6" <reddye6@a...> wrote:
                          > >In general, I am interested in things that
                          > >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                          > >and sound art
                          >
                          > Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary
                          radio
                          > drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                          > Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark").
                          Then
                          > there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                          > "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek
                          Jarman's
                          > films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.
                          >
                          > Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                          > head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind
                          of
                          > like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                          > Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan
                          For
                          > This World."
                          >
                          > A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s
                          is
                          > at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                          > Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                          > Mike
                        • M. Pathos
                          I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn t enough; while
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                            I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about
                            rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn't
                            enough; while concentrating on spitting the most preposterous permutations
                            of polysyllables, most rappers forget the need to actually have something
                            worth saying. "Rap" could be a wonderful form for telling stories.
                            Continuously hearing about how rich, or broke, the rapper is, is not enough.
                            >
                            >

                            Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                            et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                            -Patrick


                            NP: Edgard Var�se - "Complete Works"






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                          • M. Pathos
                            Thanks to whoever posted the address. This is a fantastic site for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really rap , though. . . .
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                              Thanks to whoever posted the <www.ubu.com> address. This is a fantastic site
                              for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really "rap", though. . . .

                              _________________________________________________________________
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                            • manny@telerama.com
                              Those who adore Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes. She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday. I saw July s
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                              • Manuel Cabrera
                                i ve never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and seen one of her short films. this isn t her work, but the short film collection I
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                  i've never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and
                                  seen one of her short films. this isn't her work, but the short film
                                  collection "I Saw Bones," with works culled from the Big miss Moviola project,
                                  has some gems in it. I'm not very familiar with Laurie Anderson's work
                                  (except for a couple of tracks I've heard from her), but I'll be sure to check
                                  it out. In any case, I don't worship her: I simply enjoy what I've heard and
                                  seen of her work.

                                  mandel

                                  manny@... wrote:

                                  > Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                  > She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                  > I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                  > What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                  > Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                  > not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                  > Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                  > on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                  >
                                  >
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