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Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop

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  • Manuel Cabrera
    Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have
    Message 1 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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      Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
      now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


      manuel cabrera

      Fractured Music wrote:

      > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed very dark dissonant noise.
      >
      > -Varjak
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Manuel Cabrera
      > To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 12:30 AM
      > Subject: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop
      >
      > An esoteric request: does anyone know of any atonal hip-hop/rap out in
      > the greater musical universe? this is an absolutely serious request. thanks
      > in advance,
      >
      > semiote
      >
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    • Jason Witherspoon
      ... Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul Williams, et al.-- -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
      Message 2 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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        At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
        > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
        >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
        >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
        >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
        >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
        >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
        >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
        >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
        >be greatly appreciated.
        >
        >
        > manuel cabrera

        Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
        Williams, et al.--
        --


        Jason Witherspoon
        ICQ #62837760

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      • M. Pathos
        atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious reference to any scale or tonic. (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford
        Message 3 of 20 , May 5, 2002
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          atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no conscious
          reference to any scale or tonic.
          (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary -- Second
          Edition. Clarendon Press: London)

          As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
          traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures, most
          hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale or
          tonic".

          But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially fucked-up.
          If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood of the
          bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood"). If you
          want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux label. If
          you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
        • ninplant@xs4all.nl
          ... i recommend black sifichi - Tick on Noise Museum - The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products on Hydrogen Dukebox Sensational heavyweighter on
          Message 4 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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            >At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
            > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
            > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
            > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
            > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which has
            > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
            > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
            > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
            > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words would
            > >be greatly appreciated.
            > >
            > >
            > > manuel cabrera

            i recommend
            black sifichi
            - "Tick" on Noise Museum
            - "The black Dog + Black Sifichi = Unsavory Products" on Hydrogen Dukebox

            Sensational "heavyweighter" on Word Sound
            kathy acker with hal willner "redoing childhood" on kill rock stars
            edwin torres "holy Kid" on kill rock stars
            roberto valenza "musical secretions" on buddhaville
            brion gysin "self portrait jumping" on made to measure

            there are many more i could recommend but these are off the top of
            what's left of my head.

            bart / wreck this mess / am*dam
          • Dr Joel Blaiberg
            Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be re-released in the UK
            Message 5 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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              Another shout out here for cLOUDDEAD and almost anything involving Dose
              One. Check out the Boom Bip & Dose One - Circle album (soon to be
              re-released in the UK on Leaf) and the Rope Ladder 12 album on Mush.
              Also, for french speakers, I've found the latest TTC - Ceci N'Est Pas Un
              Disque album to be quite intriguing...

              Joel

              P.S. For a copy of my latest CDs for sale list drop me an e-mail....

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Manuel Cabrera [mailto:semiote@...]
              Sent: 05 May 2002 23:32
              To: thewire@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [thewire] atonal rap/hip-hop


              Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
              interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
              and sound art, but have been discovering things quite slowly. It began
              with an obsession with good radio drama, which has led me a few other
              things like Miranda July (whom I
              now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken word,
              not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any recommendations of good
              spoken word and sound art using words would be greatly appreciated.


              manuel cabrera

              Fractured Music wrote:

              > Check out the cLOUDDEAD collective. Very odd and very esoteric on Mush
              records. Web site is www.dirtyloop.com. They may have their own website
              as well but I'm not sure.Some of the members have had solo stuff as
              well. Dose One, of cLOUDDEAD has released some very odd poetry backed
              very dark dissonant noise.
              >
              > -Varjak
            • stevolende
              ... interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama and sound art, I was reminded of Lee ranaldo s solo stuff earlier this week I ve
              Message 6 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                --- In thewire@y..., Manuel Cabrera <semiote@e...> wrote:
                > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I am
                interested in things that straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                and sound art,



                I was reminded of Lee ranaldo's solo stuff earlier this week
                I've heard some good beatniky readings over guitar noise from him.

                what reminded me of him was the tracks on the 2 versions of the Dylan
                uNcut tribute cds
                one has the version of sitting on the Fence by Thurston, Kim and Epic
                which I think was specially done for a Dylan compi 15 or so years
                back (this disc's blurb says its exclusive to this disc)

                the other disc has a sopolo Lee track -i'm not sure what only that
                its a dylan cover.

                But I do recall a ccd I had way back with Lee doing spoken word about
                recording with the Jajouka in their Morroccan village.
                Unfortunately thats now long gone.
                as is the other industrial compi I had with his solo stuff on.
                imagine 'In The Kingdsom #41'(or whatever the number) from Sonic
                youth's Evol without the rest of Sonic Youth
                Stevo
                Np Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane
              • pm.carey@utoronto.ca
                ... Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose et al soooo much. They have moments, but ... -Patrick NP: Edgard Varèse - Complete
                Message 7 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                  * "M. Pathos" <mpathos@...>:
                  >If you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.

                  Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                  et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                  -Patrick


                  NP: Edgard Varèse - "Complete Works"
                • gradyfinklemyer
                  What happened to your big dramatic exit? ... am ... has ... would
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                    What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                    --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                    > At 3:32 PM -0700 5/5/02, Manuel Cabrera wrote:
                    > > Thank you Varjak and Stevo for your replies. In general, I
                    am
                    > >interested in things that straddle the line between spoken
                    > >word/drama and sound art, but have been discovering things quite
                    > >slowly. It began with an obsession with good radio drama, which
                    has
                    > >led me a few other things like Miranda July (whom I
                    > >now adore). I had yet to explore the realm of hiphop and spoken
                    > >word, not yet having had an "in" into the scene. Any
                    > >recommendations of good spoken word and sound art using words
                    would
                    > >be greatly appreciated.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > manuel cabrera
                    >
                    > Check out Carl Hancock Rux, Mike Ladd, Ursula Rucker, Mystic, Saul
                    > Williams, et al.--
                    > --
                    >
                    >
                    > Jason Witherspoon
                    > ICQ #62837760
                    >
                    > ---------
                    > --- ---
                    > ----O----
                    > ---------
                    > --- ---
                    > ---------
                  • gradyfinklemyer
                    Yeah, most of it ain t tonal, cause they ain t schooled in nuthin . If youse guys aks me, it s all atonal, and none of it weren t never no good. Thas juss my
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                      Yeah, most of it ain't tonal, cause they ain't schooled in nuthin'.
                      If youse guys aks me, it's all atonal, and none of it weren't never
                      no good. Thas juss my 'pinion, howevah!

                      --- In thewire@y..., "M. Pathos" <mpathos@h...> wrote:
                      > atonal: Applied to a style of composition in which there is no
                      conscious
                      > reference to any scale or tonic.
                      > (Simpson and Weiner (1991), The Compact Oxford English Dictionary --
                      Second
                      > Edition. Clarendon Press: London)
                      >
                      > As the majority of rappers and hip-hop producers are unschooled in
                      > traditions which impart cognizance of tonal or scalar structures,
                      most
                      > hip-hop is "atonal": there is "no conscious reference to any scale
                      or
                      > tonic".
                      >
                      > But you're probably just looking for stuff that sounds especially
                      fucked-up.
                      > If this is the case, I recommend Techno Animal's "the brotherhood
                      of the
                      > bomb" or any album by the Ice collective (especially "bad blood").
                      If you
                      > want more pop sounds, try anything on the quality Definitive Jux
                      label. If
                      > you want mediocrity masquerading as profundity, try cLOUDDEAD.
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                      http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
                    • Jason Witherspoon
                      ... I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I opened my mouth. Bugged that I m back, Ralph? -- Jason Witherspoon ICQ #62837760
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                        At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                        > What happened to your big dramatic exit?

                        I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute I
                        opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                        --


                        Jason Witherspoon
                        ICQ #62837760

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                      • reddye6
                        ... Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great Beckett release
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                          >In general, I am interested in things that
                          >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                          >and sound art

                          Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary radio
                          drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                          Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark"). Then
                          there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                          "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek Jarman's
                          films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.

                          Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                          head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind of
                          like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                          Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan For
                          This World."

                          A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s is
                          at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                          Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                          Mike
                        • gradyfinklemyer
                          Yo G, I couldn t care less whether you stay or go. It s been kinda lackin on the hip hop tip since you left. It s been kinda lackin on the humour tip since
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                            Yo G, I couldn't care less whether you stay or go. It's been kinda
                            lackin' on the hip hop tip since you left. It's been kinda lackin' on
                            the humour tip since ralph left.

                            --- In thewire@y..., Jason Witherspoon <arzachel@s...> wrote:
                            > At 1:44 AM +0000 5/7/02, gradyfinklemyer wrote:
                            > > What happened to your big dramatic exit?
                            >
                            > I just *knew* a big, greasy Ralph2391311 would plop out the minute
                            I
                            > opened my mouth. Bugged that I'm back, Ralph?
                            > --
                            >
                            >
                            > Jason Witherspoon
                            > ICQ #62837760
                            >
                            > ---------
                            > --- ---
                            > ----O----
                            > ---------
                            > --- ---
                            > ---------
                          • gradyfinklemyer
                            I recommend Pierre Henry s Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too bad I don t speak frog.
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 6, 2002
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                              I recommend Pierre Henry's Fragments Pour Artaud, which is bumpin'
                              in my crib right now. Great mix of spoken word and out sonics. Too
                              bad I don't speak frog. Oh well, it adds nice atmosfear to the
                              sonical proceedings. Also worth a shout out is Pierre Henry's
                              Apocalypse de Jean. And if any of you gangstas is lookin' to get the
                              box sets that have come out, Dusty Groove gots em' for about $35!
                              Whee!

                              --- In thewire@y..., "reddye6" <reddye6@a...> wrote:
                              > >In general, I am interested in things that
                              > >straddle the line between spoken word/drama
                              > >and sound art
                              >
                              > Intermedium Records is a great place to jump in for contemporary
                              radio
                              > drama, though most of it is in German (except for the great, great
                              > Beckett release "... the whole thing's coming out of the dark").
                              Then
                              > there's the radio dramas of Ammer and Einheit, the latest one being
                              > "Crashing Aeroplanes." I also like the soundtracks to Derek
                              Jarman's
                              > films, which often include a healthy portion of dialogue.
                              >
                              > Other spoken word releases that stand out for me, off the top of my
                              > head, include Steven Jesse Bernstein's "Prison" (great voice, kind
                              of
                              > like a young Burroughs) and Jeff Noon/David Toop's "Needle in the
                              > Groove," and I'd even throw in Current 93's "I Have A Special Plan
                              For
                              > This World."
                              >
                              > A place to dig through a goldmine of sound poetry/spoken word mp3s
                              is
                              > at www.ubu.com. There's a ton: Beckett, Burroughs, Artaud, Giorno
                              > Poetry Systems stuff. Just go there.
                              > Mike
                            • M. Pathos
                              I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn t enough; while
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                                I guess what bugs me about those groups, and disappoints me about
                                rap/hip-hop in general, is its mistaken emphasis: wordplay by itself isn't
                                enough; while concentrating on spitting the most preposterous permutations
                                of polysyllables, most rappers forget the need to actually have something
                                worth saying. "Rap" could be a wonderful form for telling stories.
                                Continuously hearing about how rich, or broke, the rapper is, is not enough.
                                >
                                >

                                Ha!!! ;-) Still wondering why everyone loves Anticon/cDEAD/Dose
                                et al soooo much. They have moments, but ...


                                -Patrick


                                NP: Edgard Var�se - "Complete Works"






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                              • M. Pathos
                                Thanks to whoever posted the address. This is a fantastic site for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really rap , though. . . .
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 7, 2002
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                                  Thanks to whoever posted the <www.ubu.com> address. This is a fantastic site
                                  for sound poetry and spoken word! Not really "rap", though. . . .

                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                                • manny@telerama.com
                                  Those who adore Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes. She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday. I saw July s
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                    Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                    She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                    I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                    What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                    Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                    not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                    Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                    on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                  • Manuel Cabrera
                                    i ve never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and seen one of her short films. this isn t her work, but the short film collection I
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 8, 2002
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                                      i've never seen her perform live--only heard her albums, which i love, and
                                      seen one of her short films. this isn't her work, but the short film
                                      collection "I Saw Bones," with works culled from the Big miss Moviola project,
                                      has some gems in it. I'm not very familiar with Laurie Anderson's work
                                      (except for a couple of tracks I've heard from her), but I'll be sure to check
                                      it out. In any case, I don't worship her: I simply enjoy what I've heard and
                                      seen of her work.

                                      mandel

                                      manny@... wrote:

                                      > Those who "adore" Miranda July are worshiping an emperor with no clothes.
                                      > She has a lot less substance than Laurie Anderson did in her heyday.
                                      > I saw July's show - the hype was 80% undeserved, there was nothing to it.
                                      > What a big waste of the over $3000 which she got.
                                      > Simply repeating the words "Whitney Biennial" over and over again does
                                      > not make something interesting (though, you'd think it would).
                                      > Oh, she can make boring electronic melodies and respond to a bunch of dots
                                      > on a prerecorded video tape. How late 70s.
                                      >
                                      >
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